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Barbel and Nutrition

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Barbel - Are we feeding them too much? Fred crouch argues that we are Barbel - Are we feeding them too much? Fred crouch argues that we are

Fred Crouch takes a look at what he perceives to be one of the main causes of concern in modern barbel angling – overfeeding.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With my angling interest dedicated exclusively to barbel for well over fifty five years I have seen a few changes, but none as worrying as my present concern for our barbel populations. There can be no doubt whatsoever that in the majority of our rivers barbel numbers have dropped dramatically so in this piece I am taking an in-depth look at just what is happening, the cause, and what can be done, if anything, to reverse the decline.  


The first thing to say is the reduction in barbel numbers has been accompanied by a rapid escalation of individual weights. Barbel angling history shows there has never been such a comparable leap in sizes.  
     

They were originally confined to three English river systems, the Thames, Great Ouse and the Humber/Trent until throughout the 1900’s many transplants took place and they now inhabit numerous rivers in England and a few in Wales. In 1888 a barbel from the Thames set the official rod-caught record of 14lb 6oz which stood for more than a century, yet such has been the phenomenal increase that barbel of that weight caught today of would hardly cause a raised eyebrow.


As more and more big fish were caught the cause prompted much discussion but unfortunately the truth became clouded by bogus claims; the two most prominent and persistent of which were the barbels’ consumption of high numbers of American Signal Crayfish and increasing water temperatures due to global warming. Hopefully, and at last, both of these notions have been discredited by the following truths.


We are well aware it takes just a tiny number of Signals to find their way into a river for them to rapidly explode into plague-like proportions, a fact that makes a mockery of the suggestion that they were being heavily predated upon by barbel.  Anybody that doesn’t accept that should research pre-Signal Crayfish times and they will soon discover that most of our rivers held substantial populations of European White Clawed Crayfish but the growth rate of all Cyprinid species remained at totally natural levels.  That is because the amount of digestible tissue in crayfish is extremely small and a huge number would have to be consumed to promote significant growth, but the nail in the coffin of that particular assertion is that barbel have broken many river records on waters that had no Signal Crayfish. 


Another claim put forward was that they eat the newly laid eggs of the barbel but as the fish deposit their eggs in purpose dug pits then cover them with a layer of gravel up to three inches in depth they would be out of the reach of the most persistent crayfish, but more about that later.


The claim that global warming has played a part is even more bizarre as our climate has increased by less than one degree in the last decade and only the most regularly targeted river species have shown massive weight gains. If rising water temperature was responsible all species including gudgeon, dace, roach etc would have grown by amounts to break their respective records by equally huge amounts, but they have not.   


In a recent issue of a popular angling publication a fish biologist was asked his views on the subject and a couple of his explanations were, to put it nicely, ludicrous. He suggested many fish of today’s inflated weights existed in the past but anglers didn’t have strong enough tackle to land them. I’d say if tackle was strong enough in 1888 to land a barbel of 14lb 6oz from the Thames the odd fish of two or three pounds heavier wouldn’t have been too difficult. Another reason he gave was that scales of years ago were not as accurate as today and very big fish were probably under-weighed. I don’t think so.


Here are a couple of quotes from ‘Understanding Barbel’ which I wrote more than twenty five years ago. “Any river, fished or unfished, will only hold the number of fish which it can support with oxygen and food.   If one species begins to increase by virtue of its physical advantage an equivalent decline in other species must occur.”  And “How the anglers’ bait affects fish stocks is often completely overlooked.”  


I used those lines to illustrate how the stock make-up of regularly fished areas is heavily influenced by the nourishment provided by anglers. Stretches most popular with anglers are normally closest to parking facilities and soon become those most favoured by fish and before too long the extra food provided falsely inflates fish numbers, which then become acutely dependent on the anglers’ provisions.  


There are glaring examples of this symbiosis across the land although it may not be immediately recognised. Lack of fish in any stretch of river have often been blamed on the river itself because as anglers we are more familiar with inflated fish stocks and when faced with much reduced numbers living on what nature provides we are mistakenly tempted to focus on the river environment as a cause of something amiss. Here is a perfect example:    


The dense, healthy fish populations of the historically famous Royalty Fishery on the River Avon at Christchurch have been attracting anglers for well over a century but anybody that believes that is purely by virtue of the fertile chalk river may be surprised to discover just above the top weir the same river is devoid of anglers - and virtually devoid of fish.   Rivers that don’t benefit from a regular supply of extra food will only support a modest natural fish biomass and that can be unbelievably small. It is a mistake to think that stock numbers on a regularly fished section of river is in any way representative of the river as a whole.   


A perfect example of just what impact different baits can have on barbel populations occurred on the Royalty back in the 1970’s. From the start of the 1972 season maggots were banned on the fishery after almost fifteen years of heavy use. During the whole of that time the barbels’ weight remained within the normal parameters with the upper weight limit under twelve pounds. Catches were generally made up with fish between three and eight pounds even though hundreds of gallons of maggots were fed into the water every week. The fish could, and did, gorge on them all day long because the amount and calorific value of digestible material contained within the larvae is small.      


A lot of meat went into the Royalty when maggots were bannedA noticeable change took place after 1972 when most Royalty anglers began using luncheon meat as an alternative to the outlawed maggot. Within a few seasons one or two barbel reached 12lb and it soon became clear the massive amount of luncheon meat finding its way into the fishery was having an effect on weights.  It must be understood that many anglers used the rolling meat method with large hook-baits which were often dislodged from the hook by weed or missed bites and many attractor lumps were thrown in and it is not an exaggeration to say dozens of tins went into the water every day.


True, mixed river fisheries attract various angling styles and all species get a share of the anglers’ baits but as they gain in popularity the barbel are gifted an advantage in as much that the donation from the angler is presented in a way most likely to benefit the bottom feeder and because lesser species are naturally reluctant to compete with much bigger fish the barbel soon begin to dominate. The only species that can challenge the barbels’ dominance is the odd carp providing they are of comparable size to the barbel so it is safe to say that the barbel has virtual carte blanche where available food is concerned especially when it in the form of large pieces or is spread on the bottom. The net result of that scenario is that lesser species decline in numbers to make way for the increase in barbel which is reflects nature’s balancing act.   
 

Now let’s take the angler out of the equation for a minute or two and have a closer look at how, left to its own devices, the barbel fends for itself. In its natural undisturbed environment it will spend roughly four to six hours per day, normally shared between dawn and twilight, in all but the coldest periods seeking out whatever creatures are abiding in and around the stony river bed. They have to work hard using lots of energy gleaning what provides just a little more than a maintenance diet in the mature fish but that’s all they need to do because the rest of their time is spent at rest. They will extend their feeding time to support their fast growth period - the first four or five years of their life - after which the growth of the males slows, while the females continue to grow at the same rate, a process called sexual dimorphism.     
   

Nature, left to its own devices doesn’t allow for ‘overweight’ in animal species because of the negative effect on mobility, general life-style, longevity and ability to reproduce. The only time any creature grows to obese proportions is when man interrupts this evolved balance and we do so at our peril because evolution normally gets things right, bringing order to the natural world, but man often get things seriously wrong, bringing chaos. With pets, the correct amount of food and exercise is essential to ensure their stature stays within the parameters for good health but some owners ignore the expert advice and the outcome is normally an obese and uncomfortable creature.  


We, as humans, are constantly being warned about the dangers of obesity and informed of the cause. It is surely the easiest example of cause and effect we could ever have. If any creature ingests more energy in the form of nutrition than they expend the result will be weight gain.   The fish in our rivers don’t grow to monstrous proportions when left to feed as nature intended and if it happens is because they have been overfed with huge amounts of high nutrition food.   


These days they go in by the bucketfulIt has to be cruel to overfeed any creature to the extent their well-being is impaired but one overlooked element of obesity is that once it occurs the body demands extra food to fuel the extra size and that’s where the real difficulty lies. More and more humans are overriding the guidance they are offered to limit food to healthy levels but at least they can get appropriate advice but lesser animals don’t so they can pay a heavy price when their natural feeding regimes are altered to yield nourishment at far higher levels than nature ever would.    


We are all now well aware that obesity effects general demeanour and can massively reduce life expectancy and no-one can deny that barbel, misshapen by being grossly overweight will find resisting a heavy flow more exhausting than if they maintained their natural shape. This becomes clearly obvious when playing the heavyweights as they ponderously labour against strong flows and cannot match the speed of lighter, slimmer fish without a massive increase in energy output which will place huge physiological strain on every part of their bodies which could mean an earlier death than otherwise expected.


Make no mistake, high nutrition food was developed decades ago for maximum growth in animal farming so we shouldn’t be surprised when it has exactly the same effect on barbel.   Next time you see on television the captive, hand-reared salmon in Scotland being fed with just a few handfuls of pellets remember there is a huge number of growing fish in any cage yet I have seen anglers arrive at the river with a bucket full of pellets and leave with it empty! It is not the food itself but the grotesque amounts used that is encouraging barbel and other cyprinids to grow to unhealthy proportions. Our barbel evolved a hydrodynamic shape suited to fast flowing rivers but it isn’t evolution that has caused such a gross distortion of that shape, it is the angler with the careless use of high powered bait!    
       

A little understanding of the barbels’ anatomy illustrates perfectly why nutrient-rich foodstuff has such a potent outcome. They have a relatively poor digestive system consisting of throat teeth that tear, no true stomach, and an intestine not much more than the overall length of the fish. They maximise their nutritional intake by eating whole insects and other roughage which have a substantial amount of indigestible content to create a ‘pestle and mortar’ action to break down the soft tissue.  


Compare that to the human who has a comprehensive set of teeth to cut, grind and crush food which begins to digestive in the mouth then moves into a stomach that continually squashes and liquidises it until it enters a thirty feet long digestive tract where most nutrients are removed. 


By feeding high nutrition food to barbel their physiologically balanced system is overridden because the ingredients immediately break down into easily absorbed nutrients.  Add to that the effortless way it is gathered and the result is all too obvious. We all know that when animals, including us, were fed an excess of high powered food while expending very little energy the result is rapid weight gain.    


There are three more facts that underline the barbels’ limited need of nutrients.  

1.   Whereas warm-bloodied land animals expend energy to maintain their vital body temperature but cold-bloodied fish is regulated by the water itself.  

2.   Unlike land animals, fish do not need to use energy by constantly opposing the force of gravity as their swim bladder renders them neutrally buoyant. 

 3.   During severely cold weather they can rest and go without food for several weeks on end with no ill effect.     
        

The successful procreation of barbel is a one of the wonders of nature especially considering the critical factors that have to be met if spawning is to be fruitful. The gravel has to be made up with exactly the right sized stones to allow for correct percolation of oxygen bearing water.   Any clogging of the interstices, they are the gaps in between the individual stones, would quickly bring about a lethal drop in vital oxygen levels. The water temperature has to remain between 14 and 18 degrees centigrade, the depth has to remain constant, as does the water velocity which facilitates oxygen needs and the female has only forty eight hours to shed the eggs once they are mature.  


If the fish get all the right conditions it would stand for nothing if one other vital element is not achievable and that is the successful shedding of the eggs by the female and that is why, as I will explain, the optimum water velocity is so important.   
  

Barbel eggs differ from the eggs of other Cyprinid species inasmuch as they have very little or no adhesion on the outside membrane, called the chorion, which makes the placement of them critical if they are to be viable. The male barbel is normally sexually mature at the age of two or maybe three years but the female isn’t until she is eight or even nine years old. At that age under natural condition she may be six or seven pounds but ingesting high nutrition food over a number of years could elevate this to double figures. The difference between naturally being 10 or 11 pounds and being the same weight through over-eating is telling by comparison. Instead of having a long, slim body the female will be very stocky but shorter and that could pose her a tremendous problem.                
     
         
Because of the lack of adhesion the female has ‘trap’ the eggs by covering them with stones.   This is done by digging a pit with her tail least three or four inches deep then squirting the eggs into it while immediately covering them by sweeping the stones back.


Now here is the problem. To carry out that manoeuvre and accommodate the male as he sheds his milt onto the eggs she has to arch her body up to an angle of 30 to 45 degrees. An over-stocky stature may make it virtually impossible for her to achieve this posture and hold it against the flow making it highly unlikely that the eggs would be deposited in the right place and be secured by a covering with stones. Eggs left exposed would be swept away in the flow to be eaten by all and sundry. As all very big barbel are females we have unwittingly created a huge obstacle to successful recruitment.  


We know for a fact that where anglers are excessively using high nutrition baits numbers of fish have dropped alarmingly as individuals have grown to monumental proportions. Rivers that I am extremely familiar with no longer produce catches of anything like the numbers they did a decade ago and I would be surprised if any members’ mature local waters show a different situation. I use the term mature because rivers like the Wye are young in terms of barbel stocks and yet to reach their potential but as they do, and if anglers’ baiting habits don’t change, they are certain to follow suit.     


Am I just scaremongering? No I certainly am not. My local river, the Lee, used to hold large numbers of barbel throughout most of its upper and middle reaches.  It never threatened the rod caught record with double figure barbel the exception and fish between 2lb and 5lb most common but over the last decade the change has been worrying. In the middle reaches individual weights have spiralled to 17lb plus which might sound really good until you factor in the accompanying decline in fish numbers which are now only a small fraction of what they used to be.  In most of the upper reaches it is as if time has stood still and a 10lb fish is still a monster but it is possible to hook barbel of less than a 1lb up through every weight class and the reason is in most stretches the over-use of high nutrition baits is still rare.  
 

It seems to me that the practice of loosefeeding either by swimfeeder or bait dropper which was always so popular to get good amounts of particles such as maggots, casters, sweetcorn, chopped up luncheon meat and hempseed onto the gravel bed has been maintained with pellets etc. The big problem is that their nutrient value is far more powerful than the previous favourites and clearly if things don’t change our barbel stocks will continue to dwindle. 
 

A typical River Wye barbelMy personal message is for those that choose to use the baits in question to please keep the loosefeed to an absolute minimum and help encourage our barbel stocks to recover to more natural levels. I know, from the many anglers I have asked, the vast majority would love to go back to fishing for fun.  Who wouldn’t enjoy going to their favourite river and catching several fish up to 7 or 8lb with half a chance of a double? To prove my point I would highlight the rising popularity of the River Wye which I honestly believe is soon to become the centre of barbel angling and most fished rivers in the land and yet at the moment there is very little chance of a monster.  


We must all accept that holding the record nowadays is pretty well irrelevant and totally false encouraging the practice of intentionally targeting and overfeeding small groups of fish in an effort to create another record. The majority of us are disturbed at the threat to our fish stocks imposed by an increasing otter population. Bear in mind if we continually reduce our barbel numbers by increasing the size of individual fish we create further problems. Big fish are unlikely to out-swim the otter which makes them far more vulnerable and because barbel numbers must decline in keeping the biomass balance when we do lose one to an otter it is obviously a greater percentage of that biomass than a smaller fish would be.  


Remember, we can have a large number of smaller fish or a much reduced number of very big ones but unfortunately we can’t have both. Getting the future life-blood of our sport, the youngsters of today, into barbel fishing, is being made much more difficult than it need be because they like to see a bit of action and for that we need more fish not less.  


That’s all for, I’m off to the upper Lee for a bit of fun!


This feature, with the exception of the FishingMagic images, was first published in the Barbel Society members’ magazine ‘Barbel Fisher’ and is reproduced here by kind permission of the Society and the author.

 







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Comments (25 posted):

eddyfish on 08/12/2011 15:26:40
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Thanks for posting that, it needs to be read by as many as possible. I have to agree with the HNV argument causing gigantism in fish and the subsequent problems with recruitment that can cause. I believe anglers are as much to blame for the barbel's demise as water abstraction, habitat lose and predation. One can only hope that education (and experience) will stop anglers from using pellet and boilies in such large quantities. Sadly I think the problem develops by peoples ignorance of the species they fish for. There is a big difference between carp and barbel. A few Summers ago, I spoke to two chaps who were struggling on the Dorset Stour. One said: "I just can't understand it mate. We put enough bait in for them." When I asked how much bait he had used, he said "About 5kg of pellet and 2kg of boilies." :omg: It beggars belief. A small handful of pellets/boilies goes a long way in a river. A lot cheaper too! :)
Ron The Hat Clay on 08/12/2011 17:42:36
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"About 5kg of pellet and 2kg of boiliesI haven't fished seriously for barbel for at least 5 years, but when I did I never put in the sort of quantities of bait mentioned. On the Trent it was no more than 1/2 a kg of pellets or half a bag of boilies when I used them. On the Yorkshire rivers it was no more than two cans of luncheon meat or 3 pints of maggots. And I caught lots of barbel. In fact I have caught barbel from 13 rivers in the UK, with my share of doubles amongst them, but I much prefer the classic barbel streams such as the Trent or Swale. After reading Fred's most interesting article, I get the impression that Fred's barbel experience might be confined to the little streams of the South, some of which might not be classic barbel waters. By classic waters I mean rivers where the barbel is indigenous. My experience of the Trent is such that I don't think you can put too much bait in. It's very likely that some 1/2 mile stretches of this river might hold more barbel than the whole of the River Lee. Even in the old days, Trent barbelling often required enormous baiting programmes, thousand of lobworms and many stones of chandler's greaves were used. The Dorset Stour and non-classic barbel rivers like it will not stand enormous baiting programmes and I tend to agree with Fred here. I certainly agree with Fred regarding his comments on smaller barbel. At about 6 to 8 lbs, barbel are at their best fighting weight. The double figure fish tending to be all weight and not much more. We should value the smaller fish far more than we do. The next time I go barbelling and meet a guy who says that he has had a couple of schoolie fish, I am going to throw him in the river, old as I am.
Neil Maidment on 08/12/2011 18:07:42
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Excellent work by Fred B., the BS and the FM Editorial team to publish this article to a wider audience. I responded when the article appeared on Facebook. For those that don't do FB here it is: "... Interesting comment on the Avon above Royalty. It was never heavily fished, albeit more so than today, but there was always a good head of fish including barbel. 1970's/1980's you could fish throughout Winkton, Sopley, Dudmoor, Avon Tyrell and beyond (mostly club waters), not see too many anglers but still find barbel in large numbers. Certainly no huge volume of bait was going in on a continual basis. But caster, maggot & hemp with a bait dropper would regularly catch a lot and I particularly had numerous "bags" on the float. The same could be said for the Stour. Back then there were plenty of barbel above Throop Weir (the old one!) with stunning catches of barbel from Parley, Redhill and Longham to those who could be bothered with the long walks!" The Avon barbel of that era were typically long lean fish. Lots of fish around 4lb to 6lb with the occasional double. For many, many years this 11-06 fish was my heaviest. It was a huge fish in 1978 and still is! Another stunner from the (very early) 1970's!
eddyfish on 08/12/2011 18:20:43
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'Ere, whatcha trying to say about my river Ron? You'd better be careful saying that on the banks of the Royalty, it would be consider heresy and high treason rolled into one! :) I think the vast majority of barbel fishing now a days is on smaller rivers, like the Kennet, the Avons, Ouse, Teme, Stour etc. so the advise in this article is spot on. And even in a river as large as the Trent though I would say that using huge quantities of HNV's is still going to be a potential problem. Please do not get me wrong I use pellets and boilies all the time on rivers, but it's about moderation. Many anglers think they can buy a bite with more bait and on most barbel rivers this can have severe effects on the fish that eat it. (That bottom photo always makes me laugh Neil, I wonder if in 40 years I look back at my pictures and think the same thing: "What on earth possessed me to wear that hat?")
Dicky (Angling Trust PAC) on 08/12/2011 18:38:12
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Neil, Were you ever a model in your early years? I'm sure I've seen you on the cover of some of my mum's knitting patterns? ;):)
Neil Maidment on 08/12/2011 18:46:27
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I will admit to "piling it in" on the Royalty way back when, particularly on sessions in the Great Weir Compound or The Parlour. The accepted way was to typically feed gallons of maggot, caster and/or hemp and then sit on top of it. The volume of barbel in the area was sometimes truly immense. But even then, the huge catches (in terms of numbers) were punctuated by long barren periods! Similarly on the Stour at Littledown (now Throop Beat 3). We could use hemp there whereas it was banned on Throop. A big heavy carpet of the magic seed soon brought in big shoals of mid sized barbel. Bang up to date, just last month I had three excellent sessions on the Severn around Worcester where I fed very little via a small but heavy cage feeder, perhaps a total of just a couple of pints of micro pellet/hemp/gbait. Yet talking to a couple of guys, they intended to put in several kilos of big boilies and pellets over a period of days, regardless of conditions or catches! ---------- Post added at 18:46 ---------- Previous post was at 18:41 ---------- (That bottom photo always makes me laugh Neil, I wonder if in 40 years I look back at my pictures and think the same thing: "What on earth possessed me to wear that hat?") Hat? I'll have you know that was the must have barbel accessory of the 1960/70's ..... a plastic elasticated visor... the rest is my hair...... :omg:
Dicky (Angling Trust PAC) on 08/12/2011 18:46:34
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I think the vast majority of barbel fishing now a days is on smaller rivers, like the Kennet, the Avons, Ouse, Teme, Stour etc. so the advise in this article is spot on. Please do not get me wrong I use pellets and boilies all the time on rivers, but it's about moderation. Many anglers think they can buy a bite with more bait and on most barbel rivers this can have severe effects on the fish that eat it. (That bottom photo always makes me laugh Neil, I wonder if in 40 years I look back at my pictures and think the same thing: "What on earth possessed me to wear that hat?") Spot on advice for small rivers like my beloved Teme. I riddle all the larger food particles out of the groundbait/ method mix and use eight to ten 4mm pellets per feeder cast... meaning on an average short session I have usually used less than 80-90 tiny pellets spread across a number of swims. Unfortunately others still apply the 'fill it in' approach which can ruin swims or even stretches for long periods of time...
Neil Maidment on 08/12/2011 18:59:23
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Neil, Were you ever a model in your early years? I'm sure I've seen you on the cover of some of my mum's knitting patterns? ;):) Cable Stitch jumpers were the big thing back in the 1960's. :omg:
Ron The Hat Clay on 08/12/2011 19:36:38
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'Ere, whatcha trying to say about my river Ron? You'd better be careful saying that on the banks of the Royalty, it would be consider heresy and high treason rolled into one! Well it's like this you see. Barbel were introduced to the Dorset Stour around the turn of the 19/20th century with fish that were taken from the Thames and Kennet. A number of these fish managed to find there way into the Hampshire Avon of course. It's only around 100 years ago that this took place so The Avon and Stour can hardly be considered as classic barbel rivers. Sorry, but they can't In comparison, the Ouse, Ure, Swale, Nidd, Wharfe, Derwent and Swale of Yorkshire; the Trent and some of its tributaries together with the Thames and a few of its tributaries have been the homes to barbel for hundreds of thousands of years. They qualify as the great classic barbel rivers. During the early part of the 20th century, the Trent became badly polluted. This may have resulted in the transfer of Thames barbel to the Stour, to provide barbel fishing in another part of the country that wasn'r so polluted. Great barbel anglers such as FWK Wallis and Ken Clower, both Nottingham men, used to travel down to Christchurch on the train, stay in local inns and fish the Avon.
Dicky (Angling Trust PAC) on 08/12/2011 21:15:35
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Well it's like this you see. Barbel were introduced to the Dorset Stour around the turn of the 19/20th century with fish that were taken from the Thames and Kennet. A number of these fish managed to find there way into the Hampshire Avon of course. It's only around 100 years ago that this took place so The Avon and Stour can hardly be considered as classic barbel rivers. Sorry, but they can't In comparison, the Ouse, Ure, Swale, Nidd, Wharfe, Derwent and Swale of Yorkshire; the Trent and some of its tributaries together with the Thames and a few of its tributaries have been the homes to barbel for hundreds of thousands of years. They qualify as the great classic barbel rivers. Just out of interest Ron... by that logic what do you consider the great classic carp venues? You know me mate, I'm not jockeying for an argument... Just interested in your opinion on the timeframe necessary for a water to become considered either 'natural' or 'classic'? How long does it take for introduced fish to acheive an appropriate level of social (amongst fishermen) and environmental (amongst resiedent populaions) acculturation? :)
Sean Meeghan on 08/12/2011 22:04:59
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Whilst I accept Fred's argument goes some way to explaining the increase in barbel weights, one question I would ask is does this explain the increase in weights on the Trent? As Ron says, the Trent is probably the most prolific barbel river in the UK with the possible exception of the Wye. It is also a big river and, relatively speaking, a fair way North. There are stretches of the Trent miles in length that hardly see an angler, yet they are still producing exceptionally large fish. Am I right in thinking this?
cg74 on 08/12/2011 22:41:12
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Just out of interest Ron... by that logic what do you consider the great classic carp venues? You know me mate, I'm not jockeying for an argument... Just interested in your opinion on the timeframe necessary for a water to become considered either 'natural' or 'classic'? How long does it take for introduced fish to acheive an appropriate level of social (amongst fishermen) and environmental (amongst resiedent populaions) acculturation? :) I can fully see Ron's train of thinking but if you were to ask barbel anglers where they would call the true "classic barbel" water, despite it not being an indigenous river to the species, most would say the Hampshire Avon Royalty stretch. Even ahead of Great Ouse's Adams Farm. And to me a water can never gain "natural" status unless the resident fish present are truly indigenous - Indigenous/natural; the same thing to me. Back to the article; an interesting read, not that I agree with a lot of what's written. Firstly Signal crayfish are eaten by barbel, sorry Fred I've seen the evidence in my landing net. Maggots. "The fish could, and did, gorge on them all day long because the amount and calorific value of digestible material contained within the larvae is small." I was always under impression that excluding the water found within, a maggot normally offers a greater degree of nutritional value than the food it ate? To use the term "obese proportions" implies the fish are carrying an excess of body fat, so can someone tell how much fat a fit 'more natural' looking 8-10lb barbel has and how much a "obese" 16lber carries? Staying with the weight issue, I always thought barbel produced spawn levels pro-rata with its body weight, 10,000 eggs per kilo or there abouts. So would it not be plausible that with increased body mass, the quantity of spawn would increase? I would be more inclined to look at habitat issues and female hormone (Oestrogen) levels in the water. As I know for a fact that if female pigs (I know they aren't the same as fish) are subjected to low levels of Oestrogen they will display full signs of Oestrus (heat) and even conceive but their release of eggs is greatly suppressed and where 12-14 piglets would be expected, only 4-6 will come about. I'd be more inclined to look into that than "obese" fish. If a reduction in a species numbers comes about as a result of reproductive failure and the biomass void is not filled by another, then it stands to reason that this will make a glut of available food for the rremaining fish? And I'm pretty certain on many rivers even a modest 1`c rise in the average water temp, give the barbel an extended window of 'prime' feeding opportunity of upto an extra 4-6 weeks per year? Why less barbel in many rivers: I say poor habitat, right down to silted gravel starving fertilised spawn suffocating. Poor food availability for juvenile fish. Hormone burden in the water..... the list is endless.... I certainly ain't changing my bait, yet!
eddyfish on 08/12/2011 22:44:35
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Hi Ron, As a fish geek I did know that. They were introduced into the Littledown Stretch of the Stour and believe it or not colonised the Avon via Christchurch harbour which is very nearly salt water. The transfer of fish still happens BTW. A lot of fish populations are indigenous to the east of England. This of course is because it was connected to the Rhine by Doggerland, the land bridge to mainland Europe. Most of the cyprinids only colonised our rivers after the last ice age (approx 10,000 BCE). One fish species still only lives in the East - the spined loach. Crucian carp, chub, barbel and ruffe, all spread out from the East either by natural means or introduction. So you could say that the only classic barbel rivers are in Germany and Holland! Not sure why all that is relevant to the article but judging by previous posts I'm fairly sure Neil has some pictures of it happening.... :) The Trent is interesting though, but by the sheer fact that people are catching them then there must be bait going in? Are the power stations still pumping out warm water? Couple a warmer river with HNV's might go some way to example the high growth. Only a theory.
Ron The Hat Clay on 09/12/2011 05:20:50
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Are the power stations still pumping out warm water? Couple a warmer river with HNV's might go some way to example the high growth. Only a theory. I'm afraid by making this statement eddy, you appear to know very little about the Trent. If you want me to bore readers by stating how the power stations stopped pumping out water I will do. The Trent is very close to how it looked in the early part of the 19th century, The water can be crystal clear and certainly there are around 30 species of fish swimming in its waters. I can fully see Ron's train of thinking but if you were to ask barbel anglers where they would call the true "classic barbel" water, despite it not being an indigenous river to the species, most would say the Hampshire Avon Royalty stretch. Even ahead of Great Ouse's Adams Farm. And to me a water can never gain "natural" status unless the resident fish present are truly indigenous - Indigenous/natural; the same thing to me. These rivers simply have no provenance from a barbel point of view. I would ask all of you who object to this to read JW Martin or Henry Coxon or William Bailey, or even JHR Bazley. These people understood barbel better than, dare I say it, the anglers of the Thames! Martin in later life moved to London and set up a tackle shop. Using the knowledge of barbel he learned from the Trent, Martin virtually taught the local Thames anglers how to target these fish. Whilst I accept Fred's argument goes some way to explaining the increase in barbel weights, one question I would ask is does this explain the increase in weights on the Trent? As Ron says, the Trent is probably the most prolific barbel river in the UK with the possible exception of the Wye. It is also a big river and, relatively speaking, a fair way North. There are stretches of the Trent miles in length that hardly see an angler, yet they are still producing exceptionally large fish. Am I right in thinking this? __________________ Yes Sean, you are right. ---------- Post added at 21:47 ---------- Previous post was at 21:35 ---------- Sean, 200 years ago, the Trent was capable of producing very big barbel, and this wasn't just a reasult of heavy feeding with lobworms and greaves. Martin spoke about 17 pounders from the Gainsborough area. Most of the very big barbel like today, came from the tidal reaches. Some of the best barbel swims on the Trent are located far from the madding crowd, entailing long walks. The biggest fish caught from the Trent in recent years have never been reported. In fact amongst the top Trent barbellers, keeping schtum about what is caught is part of a code of conduct. Personally I'm starting to become more interested in Trent barbel again and this next year I hope to fish a few areas that hadly ever see a rod from one year to the next, yet they are stuffed with barbel, big fish too. ---------- Post added at 22:06 ---------- Previous post was at 21:47 ---------- As Ron says, the Trent is probably the most prolific barbel river in the UK with the possible exception of the Wye The Wye is certainly not a classic barbel river. It WAS a classic salmon river but has been invaded by barbel at man's behest! ---------- Post added at 22:20 ---------- Previous post was at 22:06 ---------- by that logic what do you consider the great classic carp venues? Carp are a different species to barbel. No-one knows for sure how carp got here. For those interested in the history of carp in the UK I would strongly recommend that they read: "A History of Carp Fishing Re-visited" by Kevin Clifford. Probably the Romans brought them. The history of carp angling is quite recent. It was thought by many that carp were uncatchable and that serious carp fishing was not worth the effort. Then along came Dick Walker. Classic carp waters? Benniworth Haven, Croxby Pond, Hunstrete Lake, Wadhurst Lake, Bradmere, Cheshunt Reservoir, Stoneham, Dagenham, Bernithan Court, Temple Pool, Mapperley Lake, Hartwith Mill Dam, Chapel Wheel Pond. All these waters have tremendous provenance.
chav professor on 09/12/2011 07:13:48
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An interesting article. I was talking in the shop the other day about the prospect of a lake that used to hold Bream to record proportions. That old cohort has long since died off, the new cohort was described as coming along nicely and due to the quality of the food offered by carp anglers, many are now approaching double figures - a perfectly plausable connection between bait and un-natural growth rates. I shuddered when some Trent anglers where fishing the Hampshire avon a few seasons ago. Buckets of pellets, massive great method feeders and bivvies set up for a day ticket water (well it was raining - and at one point I did take refuge):D:D:D:D Un-surprisingly this method did not work out on this particular day in high summer. But what i suspect is that Barbel did find that bait eventually and probably killed off the fishing in that area for days. I think that bait has to be considered a factor in growth rates, but I am not sure I go along with the loss of fucundity. There are plenty of rivers (non-barbel ones in particular) that do not see any HNV baits or pellets and they also have larger specimens of certain types of fish. I am also surprised Sygnal crayfish are written off as a reason fish have gained massive weights. I suspect there is something more sinister involved in why fish numbers are plummeting. I don't even think predation can be cited as the major factor - in fact I consider this to be a red herring. whilst we are bickering about otters and commorants, the water companies can carry on discharging 'treated water' into river systems and abstraction can carry on as normal. I am shocked that lovely shiney gravel that existed not 5 years ago is now silted over - The future is not bright. Responsable bait usage is a super message, but I wish it were that simple.
Ron The Hat Clay on 09/12/2011 07:38:12
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I am shocked that lovely shiney gravel that existed not 5 years ago is now silted over Without that shiny gravel, and swift flowing water, barbel will not spawn! I think that this is by far more the reason for the reduction in barbel numbers on southern rivers. Also, lack of rain and too many buildings preventing rain from reaching the aquifers. This is particularly common in the overpopulated south. On the Trent, the Barbel seen to have spawned recently as plenty of small barbel are being caught. I caught 3 of about 3 ounces each this last summer.
chav professor on 09/12/2011 08:07:11
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Without that shiny gravel, and swift flowing water, barbel will not spawn! I think that this is by far more the reason for the reduction in barbel numbers on southern rivers. Also, lack of rain and too many buildings preventing rain from reaching the aquifers. This is particularly common in the overpopulated south. On the Trent, the Barbel seen to have spawned recently as plenty of small barbel are being caught. I caught 3 of about 3 ounces each this last summer. Your right there Ron, and that river sees plenty of pellets. (though I must confess what i know about barbel fits on a postage stamp!!!! The nearest barbel river to me is an hour and a half away)......
Ron The Hat Clay on 09/12/2011 08:45:33
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Another aspect of this article from Fred Crouch is the references to "oversized" barbel. Without doubt, we anglers are becoming over obsessed with oversized fish. I say "over" obsessed, because what red blooded angler does not like catching big fish? We all do. Well with the exception of some match anglers perhaps. But Fred raised this subject and I tend to agree with him. What is a specimen fish anyway? Is an obese overweight "Frenchesque" woman the perfect specimen of female anatomy? Not only that but wiry lightweight athletes have more staying power than overweight slobs. Whenever did you see an overweight slob running the marathon?
Lee Swords on 09/12/2011 11:41:31
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Hello, Long time no post you may say...yes, I suppose it is. So here goes. I like Fred and I respect his opinion but for the most part I believe that he is incorrect or is only partially correct at best on some of his conclusions, this does not however mean that I wish to detract from anything he has said but would rather my own opinion and observations over 25 years of barbel fishing be taken into consideration. 1. Barbel do not have a poor digestive system. They have a different digestive system and one that cannot be compared or judged against that of a mammalian species, the simple fact that the have put weight on proves that they are "digesting" food efficiently. Fish will however at some points gorge themselves to the point where they will expel poorly digested food item, this however is not unusual in the natural world and even mammals will do this. Why do you think dogs eat their own faeces? And Mountain Gorillas always eat their morning constitutional...it is still nutritious and provides a warm meal on a cold morning. 2. Size relevant to poor recruitment Possibly...to a certain extent but how many times have you seen a fat lass pushing a pram? I would say that the general decline of our river systems through abstraction and the increase in such things a diffuse pollution and electrification have conspired to produce food rich environments that are capable of producing vastly out-sized fish ( Red Belly and co showed signs of hermaphroditism as do many other fish due to the increase in female hormones entering the river systems) but at the same time these same rivers cannot offer viable outlets for sustainable recruitment. The Trent recruits year on year and at any time I can catch fish from 12oz to 12lb. The poor recruitment on these " Premier waters" has now been compounded by the introduction of the Signal Cray which is more than capable of digging out any barbel spawning ground ( I kept a couple as pets for a year or two so I know what they can and cannot dig out)and the less said about the Otter the better but they certainly have not improved the situation on these smaller intimate waters. 3. Over feeding is bad Yes it can be, I have long said that the high oil trout pellet is capable of packing weight onto a barbels (cyprinids) liver just as I have seen it do in farmed salmon ( I have gutted hundreds of farmed salmon as a chef and they look totally different to wild fish in the giblets department). However there is a choice...don't use hi-oil fish based pellets...use TemeSevern pellets that have 30%+ more vegetable based pellets than other brands which are still highly attractive to barbel but at the same time are healthier for the fish in the long term. I can use a vast amount of bait in a session but I am not trying to winkle out a specific fish...My goal is to catch all the fish in a ten mile radius :O) This year alone I have had several 100lb catches of barbel with my best being 5 doubles in a 300lb + mixed net over 24 hours. I have seen 200lb catches of bream and 100lb catches of chub and all of them were taken on mass baiting regimes. These chaps that complain that they cannot catch even after "piling it in" are most likely not Northern anglers as we have a saying up here that goes along the lines of "you cannot catch what isn't in front of you" Or for those too dumb to understand that saying I will simplify it " If there are no fish in the river you will blank regardless of bait or technical ability" Many of the smaller venues are dying especially the southern waters, there are too many people in the UK, people are part of the biomass as well and these rivers can only support so many of us. Say no to 70 million! Ok, that's me done. I have had my say and will now disappear back into the ether. Tata for now Lee
Ron The Hat Clay on 09/12/2011 12:04:46
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This year alone I have had several 100lb catches of barbel with my best being 5 doubles in a 300lb + mixed net over 24 hours. I have seen 200lb catches of bream and 100lb catches of chub and all of them were taken on mass baiting regimes. As a person who once had 4 doubles and a 12 ouncer in one session years ago, I can confirm that Lee knows what he is talking about. And the most bait I have seen Lee using on a barbel session is one bucketfull, not 4. Fred's assessment of the current barbel situation I think is accurate, but this only applies to certain southern streams where barbel recruitment is not in the same level as it is on the Trent, or even the Yorkshire rivers. The reason for excellent spawing levels on the Trent, is that this river has all the necessary attributes to support large numbers of barbel. Those attributes are: 1: A fast flowing stream. The last time I saw the Thames, it seemed like one big canal. 2: A clean gravel bottom. The Trent has this almost from source to estuary. 3: Tidal movements. I read years ago that barbel always seem to do better on tidal rivers, the European rivers are a typical example. 4: A substantial size. 5: Lots of natural food. The Trent probably holds more barbel than all the other English rivers put tgether. Fred has made a couple of valid points but I would like to know how much experince he has had fishing the Trent, or any other northern "classic" barbel river for that matter.
Sean Meeghan on 09/12/2011 12:09:18
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"but how many times have you seen a fat lass pushing a pram?" I think Fred's point is that you rarely see a fat barbel pushing a pram! I think that the main issues on some rivers is insecticide and fertiliser run off and hormone or hormone mimicers. These issues alone can have a major impact on recruitment and, to some effect, weight.
cg74 on 09/12/2011 12:24:17
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Hello, Long time no post you may say...yes, I suppose it is. So here goes. I like Fred and I respect his opinion but for the most part I believe that he is incorrect or is only partially correct at best on some of his conclusions, this does not however mean that I wish to detract from anything he has said but would rather my own opinion and observations over 25 years of barbel fishing be taken into consideration. 1. Barbel do not have a poor digestive system. They have a different digestive system and one that cannot be compared or judged against that of a mammalian species, the simple fact that the have put weight on proves that they are "digesting" food efficiently. Fish will however at some points gorge themselves to the point where they will expel poorly digested food item, this however is not unusual in the natural world and even mammals will do this. Why do you think dogs eat their own faeces? And Mountain Gorillas always eat their morning constitutional...it is still nutritious and provides a warm meal on a cold morning. 2. Size relevant to poor recruitment Possibly...to a certain extent but how many times have you seen a fat lass pushing a pram? I would say that the general decline of our river systems through abstraction and the increase in such things a diffuse pollution and electrification have conspired to produce food rich environments that are capable of producing vastly out-sized fish ( Red Belly and co showed signs of hermaphroditism as do many other fish due to the increase in female hormones entering the river systems) but at the same time these same rivers cannot offer viable outlets for sustainable recruitment. The Trent recruits year on year and at any time I can catch fish from 12oz to 12lb. The poor recruitment on these " Premier waters" has now been compounded by the introduction of the Signal Cray which is more than capable of digging out any barbel spawning ground ( I kept a couple as pets for a year or two so I know what they can and cannot dig out)and the less said about the Otter the better but they certainly have not improved the situation on these smaller intimate waters. 3. Over feeding is bad Yes it can be, I have long said that the high oil trout pellet is capable of packing weight onto a barbels (cyprinids) liver just as I have seen it do in farmed salmon ( I have gutted hundreds of farmed salmon as a chef and they look totally different to wild fish in the giblets department). However there is a choice...don't use hi-oil fish based pellets...use TemeSevern pellets that have 30%+ more vegetable based pellets than other brands which are still highly attractive to barbel but at the same time are healthier for the fish in the long term. I can use a vast amount of bait in a session but I am not trying to winkle out a specific fish...My goal is to catch all the fish in a ten mile radius :O) This year alone I have had several 100lb catches of barbel with my best being 5 doubles in a 300lb + mixed net over 24 hours. I have seen 200lb catches of bream and 100lb catches of chub and all of them were taken on mass baiting regimes. These chaps that complain that they cannot catch even after "piling it in" are most likely not Northern anglers as we have a saying up here that goes along the lines of "you cannot catch what isn't in front of you" Or for those too dumb to understand that saying I will simplify it " If there are no fish in the river you will blank regardless of bait or technical ability" Many of the smaller venues are dying especially the southern waters, there are too many people in the UK, people are part of the biomass as well and these rivers can only support so many of us. Say no to 70 million! Ok, that's me done. I have had my say and will now disappear back into the ether. Tata for now Lee Good post Lee, though I found the product placement a little irksome but that's just me, all that's left for me to say; barbel foie gras Xmas anyone?
Ron The Hat Clay on 09/12/2011 12:40:08
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So you could say that the only classic barbel rivers are in Germany and Holland! Sorry but I don't buy that at all. The barbel that populate the Severn, the Hants Avon and Dorset Stour, the Teme and Lugg, The Warks Avon, The middle reaches of the Great Ouse, The Bristol Avon, The Ribble and The Usk, got there by virtue of the hand of man. The barbel in the classic rivers had been there from the time that England was joined to Europe. The Humber and Thames estuaries were probably joined to the large estuaries of Western Europe. Oh yes the classic barbel rivers of Western Europe and the Trent, are most likely possessed by a common ancestor.
Lee Swords on 09/12/2011 12:49:09
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Final point before I disappear.... I consult with T7 therefore I am aware of what goes into the mixes, I do not consult with Nash, Dynamite Sonu nor any other bait supplier therefore I cannot give expert advice on what is in or not in their mixes. All I can do is offer a "solution" If you want a different solution contact the other brands and ask them outright what their mixes consist of...They will probably tell you to ****** off. I simply tried to offer "something useful" to the angler that wishes to avoid the use of excessive fish-meal based pellets/boillies if you find the solution I have offered irksome that's your problem not mine. Don't bother replying to my post directly as I will not be back again for months and will therefore not be reading it. have a nice day.
Jeff Woodhouse on 09/12/2011 12:59:32
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Ok, that's me done. I have had my say and will now disappear back into the ether. Well said, Lee, and I wish you wouldn't. Fred's piece has a lot to take in and I am not criticising his general comment that we should all put a lot less bait in when using baits with either HNV or high oil content anyway. A little is OK, but all fish can only digest so much and the rest, as Lee points out, is evacuated (Don't know about gorillas though :confused:). What I do question with Fred's piece is, are barbel getting obese? I've not caught any large size barbel, well none over 13lbs, but I have a seen a few now and they don't look obese to me unlike some of the huge mirror (particularly) carp that are caught and cradled these days. Enormous guts that would have made even Bernard Manning look more like skinny Sid Little by comparison. SO my question would be, are barbel getting dispropotionately fat i.e.: length to girth measurements or is this just that they can now grow generally larger with the improved (?) albeit unatural diets much like man has evolved to grow taller in the past 100 years? After all, most fish, given an adequately sized environment, will continue to grow and it could be conceived that in 50 years time we could see 30 and possibly 40 lbs barbel, couldn't we? Yes, I do agree with Fred, a river can only stand so much biomass, but I would refer then to a lot of the EA's sampling results on the Thames showing that carp now provide the largest part of the biomass (hence also my wish to see carp being removed from rivers and put back into lakes). Is this really affecting the recruitment levels though, hence my question in another thread about smallest barbel catches. I'm not so sure and believe that endocrine disruptors may be the cause along with many others (it would be like saying one particular battle/weapon was the cause of winning WWII, as it was a multitude or occurances and no single element had any more overrbearing influence than any other). As for the Thames (the river I know best now), I do believe that warmer waters HAVE contributed to better growth by extending feeding in the year, I do also believe that clearer water is also a help for fish finding more food - natural or otherwise. But the clearer water has also lead to a growth of more dense gravel covering plants such as willow moss, especially in weirs - typical barbel breeding areas, and this has handicapped the barbel's ability to cut channels for its spawn. I'm even talking with the EA now about the possibility of jetting the gravels to see if that improves recruitment or if there is the possibility of creating new gravel/spawning areas as the EA did at Bray some time ago with 600 tonnes of fresh gravel. There are far too many questions to ask about the recruitment, but as I said, Fred's basic message about cutting back on feed, certainly for those who do introduce too much, is a good one. As my old friend who likes his chub says when he throws in 6 pieces (no more) of his cheese paste, you want them just to get the smell and taste and then to search for the rest, one of which will have your hook in it.


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