Barbel Fishing – The Pope’s River Diary: January

Fred Bonney on 30/01/2012 12:42:04

I think Steve is getting into this Diary lark. A very good read, and with the potential to open up some discussion. Keep it up.

longshaw on 30/01/2012 18:17:51

I think the list of requirements speaks volumes about what is so intrinsically wrong with the commercialisation of the Barbel Society and why so many real people no longer want anything to do with its leadership who judge anglers by their commercial success and how they have sold themselves to a gullible public.

MarkTheSpark on 30/01/2012 19:24:22

Maybe that's a bit strong, but it's a good point; it takes a certain kind of person to care who's on the list, and I know some superb barbel anglers who not only won't be on it, they wouldn't want to be on it. Although I am guilty as sin in my former life on Angling Times of endlessly writing about 'star anglers' and creating this supposed celebrity culture, in later life I have started to think it rather pointless. That's not to put Steve down in any way - each to his own. And certainly not to doubt Steve's credentials for assembling the list. But it's my belief that reducing the pastime of angling with all its facets and all its attractions to lists and numbers does it a disservice; yes, keep a record of what people have caught, by all means, but I don't see that translates into creating hierarchies of anglers. Some of the best anglers I have ever fished with - and there are a few well-known ones among them - have no interest at all in this kind of thing, and told me off when I did it in the past. Angling is a very 'personal' pastime.

Rich Frampton on 30/01/2012 20:14:08

I think the list of requirements speaks volumes about what is so intrinsically wrong with the commercialisation of the Barbel Society and why so many real people no longer want anything to do with its leadership who judge anglers by their commercial success and how they have sold themselves to a gullible public. lol....not sure what you read but I think Steve was indicating abit more than that!!! lol I can assure you that the BS has hundreds of real people as members and that the committee have not,as you state , sold their souls to commercial success.Get real and perhaps contribute instead. Rich.

gingerbeard on 30/01/2012 20:43:29

Reading Steve's article and also the included photo, I've realised that I've met and had a very good conversation with Dave Mason on the river bank in the past. I clearly had no idea who he was or how well known in the barbel circle he is, but he was nice guy, just chatting about his love for fishing and passing on a little knowledge of the river to me. I wish him a speedy recovery.

Rich Frampton on 30/01/2012 20:48:44

Dave is a really great bloke.....I hope he makes a full recovery but I fear it may be a long road.In the meantime,let's just hope and pray that all goes well.

Fred Bonney on 31/01/2012 07:40:37

lol....not sure what you read but I think Steve was indicating abit more than that!!! lol I can assure you that the BS has hundreds of real people as members and that the committee have not,as you state , sold their souls to commercial success.Get real and perhaps contribute instead. Rich. They do say ignorance is bliss Rich!

Peter Jacobs on 31/01/2012 08:49:44

I think the list of requirements speaks volumes about what is so intrinsically wrong with the commercialisation of the Barbel Society and why so many real people no longer want anything to do with its leadership who judge anglers by their commercial success and how they have sold themselves to a gullible public. Really? Are we on FM going to do this all over . . . . . AGAIN?

Fred Bonney on 31/01/2012 09:06:17

It shouldn't do Peter, it's only the same person with a different name!

longshaw on 31/01/2012 09:37:16

"Well I’ve come up with my own list of bullet points and I’ll run through them in no particular order: • Written a book or contributed to one. • Known for outstanding success on a particular river. • An association with a major organisation or club. • A known specimen hunter. • A known all-rounder. • Associated with a particular method that has become synonymous with the individual. • A name linked with causes, issues or projects. • Caught a record fish, river record or won awards eg. Drennan Cup. • Appeared in dvd’s, video’s etc. • Appeared on TV. • Written for Angling Times, Angler’s Mail etc. • Written for the monthly magazines. • Is a regular on the web. • Is a speaker on the circuit. • Owns a tackle business. • Has rods or reels named after them. • Is sponsored by a major tackle/bait company. • Has been on the scene for twenty years or so. • Has their own website. • Writes a regular blog. • Achieved something notable in the fishing world. • Owns or runs a fishery. • Runs a guiding service." So Fred are you really saying that you would agree with Steve that to be regarded as a respected member of the barbelling community now one should have the above experiences on ones CV with commercial success as a prerequisite? And we wonder why we get youngsters coming on various sites including here asking where they can get information on getting a sponsor deal and posting up blogs shouting how many doubles they have caught this month with a detailed breakdown of which manufacturers tackle and bait they were using. Just asking the question as it was posted as a discussion topic so not sure why people have already resorted to insults?

Fred Bonney on 31/01/2012 09:48:13

I will only say one thing, especially as you appear not to have the courage of your convictions and use or even sign off with your own name, whilst attacking an organisation,it's members and officials. The list could apply to any persons views on what a celebrity may be and not all of them relate to commercial success!

magna barbus on 31/01/2012 09:56:02

I think guys, so called celebrity Anglers have been with us for years and this was initially created by the success of an individual, in my era, these were the likes of Dick Walker, Tag Barnes, Bill Keal, Peter Wheat, Pete Stone, Jack Hilton, I could go on, we as anglers make these guys famous because in essence we want to know the secret of their success, so we read their articles we use their tips and read their books, nothing wrong in that, its the same in any sport, but whereas other sports relish the difficulty, the challenge and achievement of their chosen game we as anglers relish the short cut to success philosophy, make pools smaller, put more fish in, the deception of fish and nature to achieve comparable success to our chosen ' celebrity'. What is a new phenomenon of the last 25 years is the creation of the professional Angler, these are people that have been seduced by tackle, bait and publication companies to be rewarded for fishing full time, the people I spoke of earlier actually held down a normal job and family life and experienced failure as the rest of do, the current glut of full time fishermen is nauseating and bare no resemblance to ordinary anglers, with their unlimited time and financial support either in product or cash and their net work of sycophants who do all sorts of swim preparation for them, they are a pox on our beloved pastime, I blame the weekly comics for their creation, they cause more a sense of failure than inspiration, an individual who has unlimited time cannot be compared to your average Joe who can only fish on a Saturday or a couple of hours in the week. Yes you get real celebrities in real sport, Hamilton, Button, the Klitchco brothers, Ali, Shearer, Federer, Nedal et al......fishing aint a sport its a pastime, a bit like model making, Cycling or hill walking, and long may it be so, for me anyway. I say all this as one of the people on Steve's list, Steve means well and is dedicated and has done much, but I am not a celebrity, maybe I am just a little more vocal and forthcoming than the much better lesser known Barbel anglers I have been fortunate to meet during my life.

the blanker on 31/01/2012 10:35:03

I will only say one thing, especially as you appear not to have the courage of your convictions and use or even sign off with your own name, whilst attacking an organisation,it's members and officials. The list could apply to any persons views on what a celebrity may be and not all of them relate to commercial success! Over 50% of the list is to do with comercial things, why is it that anyone with a view that conflicts with members of the BS are insulted on here ( not this post) it seems to me you can have a view as long as its the same as the BS, shame.

Fred Bonney on 31/01/2012 10:46:00

I'm not certain that applies blanker, but you can show me where it did. Perhaps it's more to do with the way the anonymous with a grudge put over their view. Steve's diary piece had nothing to do with the Barbel Society and only part of the piece was a personal view of what he thinks is meant by celebrity.

the blanker on 31/01/2012 10:50:46

I'm not certain that applies blanker, but you can show me where it did. Perhaps it's more to do with the way the anonymous with a grudge put over their view. Steve's diary piece had nothing to do with the Barbel Society and only part of the piece was a personal view of what he thinks is meant by celebrity. Post 5 quoting post 3 is the start of it, also from a BS member.

Fred Bonney on 31/01/2012 11:07:22

That seems to me that you think that an unfounded attack on that members organisation shouldn't be responded to. Is that your view ?

longshaw on 31/01/2012 11:50:19

"A very good read, and with the potential to open up some discussion." Fred, I was under the impression that that's exactly what we were doing,having a discussion,is that not the case? I think you'll find the vast majority of FM forum members use pseudonyms strange then that you only feel it necessary to personally attack those who have an opinion that disagrees with yours. So just in case you might like to give a reasoned response do you agree with the commercialisation of angling and the effect that has on younger anglers who think it is the norm to seek commercial sponsorship and therefore commercial gain rather than just enjoy it as a hobby?

Fred Bonney on 31/01/2012 12:36:06

You didn't open a discussion ,you took the opportunity to have a knock. I have no objection to individuals using made up names, but when they attack others, or me, when hiding behind a pseudonym,it shows only one thing to me, they have a fear of being found out. They are to a man the one who stands at the back of a crowd and shouts abuse whilst hiding in the throng. Spineless! I have not personally attacked you as you state above, another trait of those that post anonymously, it's no more than an attempt to draw attention away from your initial unjustified attack. As to whether I agree or not, is not relevant. I'm sorry to say that it is now a fact of life in all respects, that good numbers of individuals, not only youngsters, want something for nothing, and that includes celebrity status! Most end up disappointed, and there is nothing you, whoever you are, or I can do to change it!

the blanker on 31/01/2012 12:49:13

That seems to me that you think that an unfounded attack on that members organisation shouldn't be responded to. Is that your view ? I saw no attack just a comment, you really are very sensative and it seems to me anyone can have an opinion as long as its the same as yours, remember an opinion is only that no opinion is fact until proven,

Fred Bonney on 31/01/2012 12:56:30

I think the list of requirements speaks volumes about what is so intrinsically wrong with the commercialisation of the Barbel Society and why so many real people no longer want anything to do with its leadership who judge anglers by their commercial success and how they have sold themselves to a gullible public. This is not an opinion blanker, and a moderator spotted that too! The anonymous one is almost certainly, judging by his wording, one of those who regularly appear on here to hit and run.

the blanker on 31/01/2012 13:01:05

This is not an opinion blanker, and a moderator spotted that too! The anonymous one is almost certainly, judging by his wording, one of those who regularly appear on here to hit and run. If its not an opinion then it must be fact for fact is an opinion that has been proven isnt it? on the point of being anonymous perhaps all forum members should use their own names, mine is Graham Young.

Fred Bonney on 31/01/2012 13:12:19

If it's an opinion surely it warrants an explanation, otherwise you could come on here with an opinion that one of the posters is a thief. You wouldn't get away with that would you Graham? Anyway, I've no argument with you when it comes to opinion, I just think you assess opinions on facts placed before you, not heresay, rumour, or that Bill's mates mate, said so.. We shall see if the anonymous one justifies his "opinion"

longshaw on 31/01/2012 13:45:29

Hi Fred, I'm not sure which,if any, of my comments has been modded,there doesn't seem to be anything missing? Not sure which bit you would like me to "justify" other than perhaps in my opinion it is wrong to use a position of power to generate personal reward i.e. commercial activities such as guiding for reward or product placement . In general I am very unhappy with the current trend to make every article in some way commercial for the sponsors rather than either educational or entertaining. Clearly it is difficult for both of you to seperate which statements are personal and which are official so perhaps you could clarify which hat you are wearing at the moment in seeking to stifle any meaningful discussion by making it personal.

Fred Bonney on 31/01/2012 14:06:02

There was no mention of moderation in my post, merely that a moderator had spotted your intentions. What I want, is your justification for attacking the Barbel Society, based on an article containing nothing related to it . Persuade us/me that you know anything about the current Barbel Society, and that you don't have an old nagging sore that is creating your "opinion" So the hat I'm wearing is the BS's. Nothing I have written is an attempt to stifle,you haven't written anything to stifle, so why should it be ? But, and this is the personal bit, if I was a business I would say it's an attempt to damage my business.

Rich Frampton on 31/01/2012 14:15:32

Hi Fred, I'm not sure which,if any, of my comments has been modded,there doesn't seem to be anything missing? Not sure which bit you would like me to "justify" other than perhaps in my opinion it is wrong to use a position of power to generate personal reward i.e. commercial activities such as guiding for reward or product placement . In general I am very unhappy with the current trend to make every article in some way commercial for the sponsors rather than either educational or entertaining. Clearly it is difficult for both of you to seperate which statements are personal and which are official so perhaps you could clarify which hat you are wearing at the moment in seeking to stifle any meaningful discussion by making it personal. Well,you could start but justifying """""" I think the list of requirements speaks volumes about what is so intrinsically wrong with the commercialisation of the Barbel Society and why so many real people no longer want anything to do with its leadership who judge anglers by their commercial success and how they have sold themselves to a gullible public."""""" Personally speaking......there is only one member on the committee with any commercial links ..... so what?? Speaking as a member of the BS and being on the committee...is the BS run as a commercial entity in that it must break even......too right it is. To suggest that BS members are simply gullible public is an insult to all of us. Rich.

longshaw on 31/01/2012 15:34:34

Hi Fred, Sorry I can see Peters post but didn't read that as a criticism of my response as surely the whole point in the thread being started by the person responsible was to start a discussion on the article which is exactly what I did but perhaps you are right and it was and they didn't really want a genuine discussion but rather a back slapping exercise ? I gave my opinion on how I feel about "celebrity" anglers who may use their positions for commercial gain by say plonking them in a banker swim,filling it in with casters and hemp and charging somebody who could have done it themselves with a just little bit of research and a helping hand £200 for the privilege as an example or by taking money and expenses for promoting a particular bait/rod/reel/braid/line at every opportunity even if they don't actually use it themselves in reality. I've never charged anybody for any help or advice given and after 37 years at it don't intend to start now as to be honest that's where I get my enjoyment now watching others, especially kids,have the catch of a lifetime . So you see we are just diametrically opposed in why we do it,not personal just different.

Fred Bonney on 31/01/2012 15:43:09

So, it has nothing whatsover to do with the Barbel Society then as intimated in your first post!

longshaw on 31/01/2012 15:58:21

Er,no. "Last year I wrote an article that saw the light of day in the Barbel Fisher magazine and is up in the articles section of my website, the title was ‘Legends’ and it detailed my views on those who have attained that status in the barbel world." So basically this FM article is just a rehash of the original BS's Barbel Fisher article and therefore this statement intrinsically links the two,on his website there are numerous references to the BS and his position which to me is using his high office in one sphere to influence potential customers to a personal commercial endeavour,if there was no linkage I would agree with you but unfortunately there is so I don't but can understand why you might want to overlook this. Hope that clears up how I feel and why the two are interlinked.

Fred Bonney on 31/01/2012 16:10:02

No it wasn't a rehash, it's a different approach. I repeat, this is nothing to do with the Society, it's just a personal grudge against an individual, with perhaps a hint of jealousy creeping in.. You certainly give no credit to the individual who makes a personal choice, and I have to say, as much as I don't like to, I know for a fact, that many of the so called "gullible" have no knowledge of the Barbel Society !

longshaw on 31/01/2012 16:37:31

� LEGENDS! - Steve Pope Barbel Fishing - Fred, It's a rehash,but instead of the real men of angling such as Fred J,Dick W,Stoney and others such as Fred Buller who inspired me as a teenager in the late 60's and early 70's catching 1 or 2 barbel a day on The Royalty and Throop,they have for some reason been replaced on the FM article by some of the more modern acolytes who are, just in my opinion you understand, seemingly more interested in the commercial aspects and self gratification rather than a genuine love of the art and inspiring beginners as my childhood hero's conveyed.

cg74 on 31/01/2012 17:20:37

"Well I’ve come up with my own list of bullet points and I’ll run through them in no particular order: • Written a book or contributed to one. • Known for outstanding success on a particular river. • An association with a major organisation or club. • A known specimen hunter. • A known all-rounder. • Associated with a particular method that has become synonymous with the individual. • A name linked with causes, issues or projects. • Caught a record fish, river record or won awards eg. Drennan Cup. • Appeared in dvd’s, video’s etc. • Appeared on TV. • Written for Angling Times, Angler’s Mail etc. • Written for the monthly magazines. • Is a regular on the web. • Is a speaker on the circuit. • Owns a tackle business. • Has rods or reels named after them. • Is sponsored by a major tackle/bait company. • Has been on the scene for twenty years or so. • Has their own website. • Writes a regular blog. • Achieved something notable in the fishing world. • Owns or runs a fishery. • Runs a guiding service." Jeez, that's some list of qualifying criteria; if it'd been all/most of the above then maybe anyone making the 'grade' would have some credence in a claim to being 'known' but I as never saw a mention of an exact (entry) level from the list, I can only assume there isn't actually a means to quantify elevation from a nobody to a 'somebody'??!! On that basis the qualifying criteria is a joke; as half the experienced barbel anglers I know would qualify...:confused::confused: Fred and Rich, if only you knew the harm the pair of you do to the credibility of the BS with your outpourings, a polite word; if Steve's position needs defending, he's more capable than the pair of you combined and they do have the internet (even broadband) in Oz, so stop looking like a pair of desperate to please lap dogs and leave Steve to answer his own critics himself. He comes over as a fairly intelligent guy, so I'm sure he would've foreseen this response to his diary entry, to be fair, he even hinted at it.

Fred Bonney on 31/01/2012 18:51:49

Colin, I suggest you read it all again, we weren't defending Steve, we were ensuring facts about the Barbel Society and it's membership are truthful. Steve is well capable of looking after himself as we all know. As for damaging the BS, that's the usual claim of those who don't know the facts about the Society and it's membership, and don't like being told they are wrong. The term lap dogs is also a phrase coined from the desperate looking to belittle individuals and quite honestly calling people names has no affect, and you of all people should know that by now..

cg74 on 31/01/2012 18:55:48

Woof, woof...:p

Fred Bonney on 31/01/2012 19:06:04

There's a good dog Colin....sit! :p

cg74 on 31/01/2012 20:07:20

Fred, I'd have thought you might of realised by now; I obey no one, just do my own thing..... Bow wow wowww (you understand now?)

Fred Bonney on 31/01/2012 20:15:19

It's about time you and all the others knew the same about me then, so be a good boy and go lie down!

cg74 on 31/01/2012 20:40:57

You're not listening Fred, bad boy, now get and lie down like a good boy, see Rich can do it (so far), so you try,,,,,, promise I'll give you an extra Bonio biscuit, if you behave.;)

Fred Bonney on 31/01/2012 22:04:03

You know I have to have the last word Colin, especially when I'm right ! ;)

magna barbus on 31/01/2012 22:05:55

Well well well......what an interesting day watching the squabbling masses, I am not surprised, Angling, but nay thrice nay, Barbel fishing has been the loser with this debate. I thought Steve's original comments were about so called celebrity anglers (I prefer to call them tackle tarts who sell them selves to the highest bidder) and what Steve believes constitutes the making of a celebrity angler, it is clear (read my post) I have no time for them, just as I have no time for the so called Celebs in big brother, or some Hello type mag. We will never all agree on something and Steve with the position he has as BS chairman will never please all the people all of the time, it goes with the territory, but he is ultimately a good man, a political animal yes, but I do wish we could be congenial about these things and constructive, but like all forms of institutionalised Angling you will always have someone, somewhere saying (best brummie accent here) yo doe wanna do it like that, yo wanna do it like this......the focus should be on the celeb culture that we are cursed with at the moment and save your venom for the creators of it, the papers and the mags we all buy each week and each month.

cg74 on 31/01/2012 22:26:50

That's it Fred, I'm giving the Bonio biscuits to Rich, yap, yap, yap....

Rich Frampton on 01/02/2012 00:10:41

That's it Fred, I'm giving the Bonio biscuits to Rich, yap, yap, yap.... Colin you are becoming very boring now....... good night.

Fred Bonney on 01/02/2012 05:59:28

Well well well......what an interesting day watching the squabbling masses, I am not surprised, Angling, but nay thrice nay, Barbel fishing has been the loser with this debate. I thought Steve's original comments were about so called celebrity anglers (I prefer to call them tackle tarts who sell them selves to the highest bidder) and what Steve believes constitutes the making of a celebrity angler, it is clear (read my post) I have no time for them, just as I have no time for the so called Celebs in big brother, or some Hello type mag. We will never all agree on something and Steve with the position he has as BS chairman will never please all the people all of the time, it goes with the territory, but he is ultimately a good man, a political animal yes, but I do wish we could be congenial about these things and constructive, but like all forms of institutionalised Angling you will always have someone, somewhere saying (best brummie accent here) yo doe wanna do it like that, yo wanna do it like this......the focus should be on the celeb culture that we are cursed with at the moment and save your venom for the creators of it, the papers and the mags we all buy each week and each month. Of course your quite right! The subject was changed, and I as usual, like a dog after a bone(there you are Colin) dived in. So, let's just see if we can get this thread back to the subject of celebrity. It's interesting to note that most if not all of those "celebrities" on Steve's list take no part in/on(?) the internet. My thoughts are we are stuck with "celebrities" they are created by the media, (and by themselves in some recent cases) and "we" feed that creation whilst it suits us, and then "we" cut it down when the individual becomes too popular, or dares to have an opinion different to "our" individual own view. The ones of old, the Walkers, Stones and Fred J's, would probably get the same treatment as the current "celebrities" do. That means they would probably be under the same attack as this t'internet thing allows. So they wouldn't bother to participate, like many of our current angling "celebrities" don't. This leads to the lack of input from anglers with something to give to our sport... hobby..whatever we want to call it. This is the media that destroys the ability of individuals to give a view, or an idea. It's too immediate, and as a result too easy for those who haven't an idea for themselves, to just knock it and hide behind their screen. I say thank God for the weeklies/monthlys, whatever their short comings, at least they give us some respite from the dross spouted on some internet fishing sites/blogs from the overnight expert....wannabe celebrity!

magna barbus on 01/02/2012 07:27:40

Thats and interesting response Fred, but I dont think the names from yesteryear would have had the same response, yes Walker had his detractors and there is nothing wrong with that, he sometimes cultivated that himself, as he was a very argumentative individual, but he wasnt a professional angler, how can you believe any of todays celebs when their loyalty is to their sponsor or wages payer, everything they say or day is suspect and corrupt I think, use this rod, that bait this rig, this reel is the best, if you extract the huge grinning posed pictures and the candid adverts, the amount of quality writing is minimal. I am far from an over night expert Fred, I have passion thats all for the things that I think do angling no favours, and as an expert pase' ,,,,,,no way I am still learning and I still aint got it right!

cg74 on 01/02/2012 08:54:51

Colin you are becoming very boring now....... good night. One - nil too Rich (in the boring stakes); I'm only "becoming very boring" whereas your inanely drivelous spoutings are at best insipid, at worst, well you work it out.... Sorry, I forgot my manners, a hearty good morning to you Rich.:wh:) yip yap bow wowwww.... ---------- Post added at 08:54 ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 ---------- Of course your quite right! The subject was changed, and I as usual, like a dog after a bone(there you are Colin) dived in. So, let's just see if we can get this thread back to the subject of celebrity. It's interesting to note that most if not all of those "celebrities" on Steve's list take no part in/on(?) the internet. My thoughts are we are stuck with "celebrities" they are created by the media, (and by themselves in some recent cases) and "we" feed that creation whilst it suits us, and then "we" cut it down when the individual becomes too popular, or dares to have an opinion different to "our" individual own view. The ones of old, the Walkers, Stones and Fred J's, would probably get the same treatment as the current "celebrities" do. That means they would probably be under the same attack as this t'internet thing allows. So they wouldn't bother to participate, like many of our current angling "celebrities" don't. This leads to the lack of input from anglers with something to give to our sport... hobby..whatever we want to call it. This is the media that destroys the ability of individuals to give a view, or an idea. It's too immediate, and as a result too easy for those who haven't an idea for themselves, to just knock it and hide behind their screen. I say thank God for the weeklies/monthlys, whatever their short comings, at least they give us some respite from the dross spouted on some internet fishing sites/blogs from the overnight expert....wannabe celebrity! Fred, I think about half of Steve's list either post on forums and/or are bloggers, also worth a thought. Steve listed these two as possible criteria to be met: "Is a regular on the web and Writes a regular blog." Bit slow this morning Fred, I missed your doggy reference. Go on Fred, fetch the bone, there's a good boy....

Fred Bonney on 01/02/2012 09:39:16

Thats and interesting response Fred, but I dont think the names from yesteryear would have had the same response, yes Walker had his detractors and there is nothing wrong with that, he sometimes cultivated that himself, as he was a very argumentative individual, but he wasnt a professional angler, how can you believe any of todays celebs when their loyalty is to their sponsor or wages payer, everything they say or day is suspect and corrupt I think, use this rod, that bait this rig, this reel is the best, if you extract the huge grinning posed pictures and the candid adverts, the amount of quality writing is minimal. I am far from an over night expert Fred, I have passion thats all for the things that I think do angling no favours, and as an expert pase' ,,,,,,no way I am still learning and I still aint got it right! I'm not so certain, I think that is one of the problems we all have in comparing yesterdays celebs with todays. In totally different circumstances to the 1960's, how would they deal with it today? My guess is they may well be professional anglers and earning good money from their Mark iv's and Legerstrikes, especially if they had developed those very same products in todays world and angling development was just starting on it's journey as it did then.. I have to say, like you, I have no faith in anything promoted by the smiling face of an individual who has caught one or two specimen fish,and is offering me a rod with his name streaked along its butt,developed by somebody else. I'm not looking for the quick fix, that is what todays "celebrities" offer, but there are many who are willing to go along with that possibility! I would however be happy to buy a days fishing from somebody who has had consistent success over a number of years, in the hope it will help continue my learning curve, and perhaps enable me to pass on some of my learned wisdom to others(young or old). And if he had developed a rod that I used on that day with his name on it and it felt right,I may well buy that too. Oh yes,in case it looks otherwise, as Steve has put you on his celebrity list, I'm happy to accept his view.....whomever you are ;)

longshaw on 01/02/2012 11:49:22

Dearest Fred, Of course it was different then because they were pioneers,I bought Dick Walker and Jack Hilton hooks because they were the only decent ones available,I've only just used up the last packet of 4's I've had for about 20 years,very rarely threw them away,they were dried and oiled in a tobacco tin ready for the next outing. I also used a Peter Stone ledger rod for years it was superb and served me well until a craftsman called Pete Evans worked his magic on revolutionary 3 / 4 piece blank developed specifically for Avon barbel meat rolling nearly a decade before it was "discovered" and commercialised. I also had a pair of Herons which after being painted matt black gave great service for several years mind you in those days before stockies they didn't get much action. They all enthralled us with their tales of countless blanks on darkened pools which made us feel better and inspired us to share similar countless nights sat behind motionless rods in the faint hope that eventually we might just tempt a wary wildie. Both of my copies of Mr.Crabtree are well thumbed having served me well,unfortunately the tales were lost on any of my offspring but I live in hope that one day grandchildren may find them inspiring. Compare that now with the celebrities who chase reported fish, gleaning minutiae from reported catches in the weekly's you so love in order to secure that next sponsorship deal and increase their profile for the shilling of the next gullible fool eager to make his first barbel a double.

cg74 on 01/02/2012 12:21:05

..........

magna barbus on 01/02/2012 16:01:16

Longshaw, you have said most eloquently what I have tried to say, what modern celebs try to engender is imitation, i.e. buy this, buy that, do this....do as I do, use what I use etc. where as the pioneers of yesteryear tried to inspire others, Walker proved big fish could be caught by design, Taylor proved deadbaits were as good as livebaits, Stoney taught us the intricacies and art of ledgering rather than a second rod looking after instself approach, Gibbinson taught us about winter Carp, I could gone on..... what these guys had in common with the ordinary man was time, the newer pin ups of today have no restrictions of time, for all we know they could blank 9 times out of 10, time is a crucial resource for the specialist angler, if you dont go fishing you wont catch, the more you go the more you catch. But we are fed a line that every time these herberts go fishing they catch a fish of a lifetime, 13Ib Barbel, 40Ib Carp, 35Ib Pike, its nonsense frankly and has had a marked effect on angling, 10 years ago the Angling Times sold 100k copies per week, now it struggles to sell 35000, you only have to see this weeks issue, huge colour spreads with limited instruction or inspiration, but just the vain weeks grins of so called celebrities that see their fellow anglers as gullible cash cows. Yes it was different Fred in the 1960's, I dont long to go back to those days, but whilst we as anglers have changed through the commercialisation of our pastime, the fish haven't, they are still the same as they were 10000 years ago, they way I see it is that we cheat now, we fill pools with Carp so anglers (?) can catch 100Ib of fish on the coldest of days, we are continually told that the next trick is the best trick ever, and last years new rod is rubbish and this years is much better. I could mention names of the most offending celebs, but I wont as they are a sensitive lot, who remind me of a bunch of luvvy actors who are consumed with regard to their position on popularity tree. I am all for debating who is or was a driving force in angling, maybe who deserves status, but please lets first get rid of the word celebrity. I know Steve meant well it starting this discussion and it is a valid thread for this type of media.

longshaw on 01/02/2012 16:38:32

And if we believe some of the stories I hear the captures shown on their TV appearances are quite often faked to save an expensive blank. There is some evidence of this when the reel being used mysteriously changes whilst the fish is being landed.

the blanker on 01/02/2012 17:03:30

I was called foolish a couple of years ago on here for daring to suggest the "names " sometimes fished swims that had been reserved and baited up for a week or so before they fished it, i know that it happens and its this kind of thing that is used to promote the next best thing in angling, i wonder how many of these names are good anglers and how many are followers of whatever information they are given.

Steve Pope on 02/02/2012 01:47:30

Hi All, Pleased to see my Diary piece has stimulated some discussion. As I mentioned this topic will run for the next few pieces and I will sum up my views at the end. Its raining here in Sydney and I have discovered the joys of being a grandpa but as soon as I get the laptop I'll be back. All the best.

magna barbus on 02/02/2012 12:15:29

I think it is a very worthwhile subject Steve, it is assumed that the celeb culture in angling is a good thing, its fair to say they appear to have little or no overt harm, they have become entertainers, where the influential anglers of the past were motivational, inspirational and ground breaking in the inventions and ideas. The few that we have now are truly in it for what they can get out of it in a commercial sense, we know everyone has to make a living, I have no problem with that, but I really believe the culture that exists today with these showman, is a message that is blurred and fanciful, it is throw away and has no substance, to give the impression that all these guys have to do is turn up and catch a fish of a life time is wrong, because we know this isnt so, I would love to be able to wave a magic wand and get back to basics and stop the sponsorship paid culture, I have no problem with guiding services, a level of product endorsement, I have no problem with tackle shops or manufacturers advertising, commercialism is good and makes the world go round, as I see it its the message these so called professional, celebs that we have at the minute are giving out, they are doing no good for Angling one jot, infact they devalue it in my opinion.

Graham Elliott 1 on 02/02/2012 12:22:21

It's athought provoking piece. I think it's important to recognise that, as he stated, Steve has selected from the founder members of the BS for his first list. Some very respected names there as well, fished with many of them. Obviously there are some who were not founder members and who I would elevate. But why oh why does every mention of the Barbel Society or indeed barbel on FM end up with an individual on his white charger coming to the supposed rescue, over any comment that doesn't meet the required deference..... I'm just glad that others who probably caught more than the one (1) barbel the abovementioned caught last season have contributed to the forum.

magna barbus on 02/02/2012 12:47:50

Good point Graham, it saddens me when a perfectly worthwhile subject has been brought out for discussion, only for it to be hijacked by Steves or the BS's detractors, Steve will be the first to admit he has his enemies ( if that's the right description) as I said earlier it goes with the job of BS chairman. I was a founder member of the BS and was there at the first meeting in Upton, and I am happy and proud of that, and frankly Steve in my opinion was made for the job of chairman, you have to have a pretty thick skin to do the role and take it on, you have to be a good communicator, you need political skills, zest and energy, Steve has had and does have these attributes in abundance, that's why he is a good for the role and has done a good job, that's why I tried to steer the discussion back to the original thread of Celebrity Anglers, its a worthwhile discussion, but if others wish to use it as a chance to lampoon Steve or others, they do Barbel angling no favours.

Fred Bonney on 02/02/2012 13:09:55

Hear hear, they are point scorers who feed on others . Talking of point scorers and feeders,nobody paid for my one barbel that I reported last season! And so what if I did? ---------- Post added at 13:09 ---------- Previous post was at 13:01 ---------- Not only that ,the lies and inuendo spread by some,(no names no pack drill) has to be defended, otherwise they become accepted as fact!

longshaw on 02/02/2012 19:08:29

Of course you have to have thick skin when you are promoting something which is a complete anathema to any right minded person who hasn't got any commercial link to Steve as he steers a course headlong into an abyss whilst trousering a few bob in the process on the back of his position.

Fred Bonney on 02/02/2012 22:16:50

Of course you have to have thick skin when you are promoting something which is a complete anathema to any right minded person who hasn't got any commercial link to Steve as he steers a course headlong into an abyss whilst trousering a few bob in the process on the back of his position. I've looked at this post a number of times and waited for an edit, but for the life of me I'm still not certain I understand what is written... Time for a new script writer methinks!

Steve Pope on 03/02/2012 05:25:48

Having given it some thought I feel I must put the poster known as Longshaw right on something. Apart from the fact that his last post was an absolute disgrace, it is also highly incorrect. The overwhelming majority of the people who have a days fishing with me have no idea that I am involved with the Barbel Society,indeed I take great pleasure when they do join up which many do. So the reality is the complete opposite of what was being insinuated. I would also add that I put up many days as prizes for worthwhile causes during the course of a season. I decided some time ago never to become embroiled in forum " debate" but I felt this was a point which needed to be made. Perhaps Longshaw would make a donation to the BS Conservation fund and then I'll happily take him out for a day...................I might learn something!

longshaw on 03/02/2012 07:47:39

I have in fact made several donations to the BS Conservation fund (and the Avon roach project) Steve up until the last one when Fred got involved,it's one of the few things that you're still getting right,keep up the good work :p I thought the idea of your diary was to promote debate that's why it was so contentious? You wouldn't learn anything thing from me Steve never had any illusions about my ability :D

Fred Bonney on 03/02/2012 08:20:37

You're still abusing behind a false name though, so no confidence in your own ability at all, it seems to me!:D I've been actively involved for the last two years, by the way.

longshaw on 03/02/2012 12:33:27

The only person abusing is you Fred,I'm just expressing a personal opinion and stand by it in that in my opinion one should not use a position of power as the head of an organisation for personal gain by using that title in advertising personal services which is clearly repeated throughout Steve's website advertising for his guiding services. I am also completely against the commercialisation of barbel fishing as discussed on the other thread running at the moment with youngsters expectations of a sponsorship deal based on some of the antics of Steve's nominated celebrities. If you have a problem with posters using a nom de plume perhaps you should take it up with the Editor.

mark barrett 2 on 03/02/2012 12:49:21

I think it is a very worthwhile subject Steve, it is assumed that the celeb culture in angling is a good thing, its fair to say they appear to have little or no overt harm, they have become entertainers, where the influential anglers of the past were motivational, inspirational and ground breaking in the inventions and ideas. The few that we have now are truly in it for what they can get out of it in a commercial sense, we know everyone has to make a living, I have no problem with that, but I really believe the culture that exists today with these showman, is a message that is blurred and fanciful, it is throw away and has no substance, to give the impression that all these guys have to do is turn up and catch a fish of a life time is wrong, because we know this isnt so, I would love to be able to wave a magic wand and get back to basics and stop the sponsorship paid culture, I have no problem with guiding services, a level of product endorsement, I have no problem with tackle shops or manufacturers advertising, commercialism is good and makes the world go round, as I see it its the message these so called professional, celebs that we have at the minute are giving out, they are doing no good for Angling one jot, infact they devalue it in my opinion. What a load of nonsense. I would love to know what you term a proffessional angler mate, as tomeit is someone that generates the greater part or all of their income from angling.By that criteria I doubt that there are any more than a dozen anglers tops that fit that criteria in the UK. Why you think such a small body could be such a harm to angling is beyond me.

Fred Bonney on 03/02/2012 14:34:25

The only person abusing is you Fred,I'm just expressing a personal opinion and stand by it in that in my opinion one should not use a position of power as the head of an organisation for personal gain by using that title in advertising personal services which is clearly repeated throughout Steve's website advertising for his guiding services. I am also completely against the commercialisation of barbel fishing as discussed on the other thread running at the moment with youngsters expectations of a sponsorship deal based on some of the antics of Steve's nominated celebrities. If you have a problem with posters using a nom de plume perhaps you should take it up with the Editor. As I have said before, I have no problem with pretend names, but if you have something to say about anybody put your name behind it, what are you afraid of? Even old slimey Elliott puts his name to his posts. ---------- Post added at 14:34 ---------- Previous post was at 14:19 ---------- Perhaps, and I think I know who you are anyway,(beware of who you think you're friends are) your frightened that your own shortcomings will be revealed ?

longshaw on 03/02/2012 15:22:27

Oh dear Fred now that is really not very nice after all the help Graham gave you catching your first and only dub :omg: Now if anybody deserves celebrity status, for the work he's done for Macmillan rather than himself personally, he should be top of the list:D

Fred Bonney on 03/02/2012 15:46:53

I have had several doubles since(if that really matters), but it was said by some, your mates from another site,to be a false double, used only for publicity. I won't comment on that as I didn't see the scales, but have always accepted it as my first double As for his work for charity, many others don't need to sing their own praises, they just get on and do it!

magna barbus on 03/02/2012 16:31:02

What a load of nonsense. I would love to know what you term a proffessional angler mate, as to me it is someone that generates the greater part or all of their income from angling.By that criteria I doubt that there are any more than a dozen anglers tops that fit that criteria in the UK. Why you think such a small body could be such a harm to angling is beyond me. What I term as a professional angler Mark, are not Tackle shop owners or manufacturers, they run business's and I agree with you with your statement of a professional angler, i.e. someone who gets their greater part or all of their income from angling, and you are right in saying that there no more than a dozen ish, but we have to accept that angling is a relatively small world and these individuals have a tremendous amount of influence and I believe give out the wrong message, if we accept we have approx 20 celebs, that through the medium of DVD's, articles, photos, adverts etc. there influence is considerable in proportion to angling as a whole, their total blatant advertising in each piece of work they do is nauseating, the way they turn up and catch fish of a lifetime is a lie, and gives the wrong message out and creates despondency and a feeling failure, I detect little humility or failure in their writing,no blanks, no missed bites or lost fish. How can anybody who as recently been taken on as a paid consultant be totally unbiased when they recommend a particular rod or bait, their opinion is flawed. But what concerns me more is how they have distorted the message of angling by suggesting through their writing style they are the best, their tackle is the best, their hat is the best and whatever bait they are being given is the best. There is a thin line between endorsement of a product and total bare faced advertising and that's where they fall down and become discredited, I know one very well known angler who has a range of rods and other stuff under his name and he totally agrees with me the stuff that bares his name is total ****, and most of it is made in China for a fiver! In a way I can live with the tackle name dropping to a degree, what I cant live with is the way they are not truthful on their fish captures and the way they are achieved, again I have knowledge of one very well known individual, got his mates to bait up for a week one particular swim on the Hants Avon and turned up and caught a known and repeatedly caught 13 pound Barbel and wrote about it as some magnificent achievement of turning up, finding the swim, slowly building it up and dropping a bait on the nose of the big Barbel and then catching it, when in essence that was'nt true. Perhaps its me being out of step and after all it is only my opinion and in the real world that doesnt count for much, but I thanks for your interesting comments and I hope I have answered your question.

the blanker on 03/02/2012 17:53:58

[QUOTE=magna barbus; what I cant live with is the way they are not truthful on their fish captures and the way they are achieved, again I have knowledge of one very well known individual, got his mates to bait up for a week one particular swim on the Hants Avon and turned up and caught a known and repeatedly caught 13 pound Barbel and wrote about it as some magnificent achievement of turning up, finding the swim, slowly building it up and dropping a bait on the nose of the big Barbel and then catching it, when in essence that was'nt true. Perhaps its me being out of step and after all it is only my opinion and in the real world that doesnt count for much, but I thanks for your interesting comments and I hope I have answered your question. "in essence that wasnt true" if that happened and i have no reason to think it didnt it was a BLOODY LIE, if i lied about the weight of a fish i would only be lying to myself as i mostly fish alone, a well known angler that lies fools not only himself but everyone that reads his lies i belive this can be very damaging to angling with youngsters coming into the sport beliving size is everything and giving up because they cant come anywhere near to emulating what they read in articles.

mark barrett 2 on 03/02/2012 17:57:20

What I term as a professional angler Mark, are not Tackle shop owners or manufacturers, they run business's and I agree with you with your statement of a professional angler, i.e. someone who gets their greater part or all of their income from angling, and you are right in saying that there no more than a dozen ish, but we have to accept that angling is a relatively small world and these individuals have a tremendous amount of influence and I believe give out the wrong message, if we accept we have approx 20 celebs, that through the medium of DVD's, articles, photos, adverts etc. there influence is considerable in proportion to angling as a whole, their total blatant advertising in each piece of work they do is nauseating, the way they turn up and catch fish of a lifetime is a lie, and gives the wrong message out and creates despondency and a feeling failure, I detect little humility or failure in their writing,no blanks, no missed bites or lost fish. How can anybody who as recently been taken on as a paid consultant be totally unbiased when they recommend a particular rod or bait, their opinion is flawed. But what concerns me more is how they have distorted the message of angling by suggesting through their writing style they are the best, their tackle is the best, their hat is the best and whatever bait they are being given is the best. There is a thin line between endorsement of a product and total bare faced advertising and that's where they fall down and become discredited, I know one very well known angler who has a range of rods and other stuff under his name and he totally agrees with me the stuff that bares his name is total ****, and most of it is made in China for a fiver! In a way I can live with the tackle name dropping to a degree, what I cant live with is the way they are not truthful on their fish captures and the way they are achieved, again I have knowledge of one very well known individual, got his mates to bait up for a week one particular swim on the Hants Avon and turned up and caught a known and repeatedly caught 13 pound Barbel and wrote about it as some magnificent achievement of turning up, finding the swim, slowly building it up and dropping a bait on the nose of the big Barbel and then catching it, when in essence that was'nt true. Perhaps its me being out of step and after all it is only my opinion and in the real world that doesnt count for much, but I thanks for your interesting comments and I hope I have answered your question. I cant say whether or not the scenario that you describe is true mate i will take your word for it, but i cannot believe its commonplace. I was llucky enough to have been involved in making twenty plus programmes for TV and it wasnt how we operated. usually the waters that we fished were day ticket or commercial waters and we were open to the vagrancy of chance every time we went. In that time I am proud to say that we only failed to catch the target species once (catfish) and ironically it was the only time we pre-baited and had the run of the lake as the lake was closed to day tickets at that time (it was mainly a carp water). As regards the whole consultancy business I dont recall seeing many say that therecompanies stuff was the best, they do say though what they use, the inference usually being placed by the reader. When I was at fox if someone asked me about say a rod to use I would declare my interest first and tell them which rod in that range iused. In my time at fox there was nothing that was released which i felt wasnt fit for purpose bar one product, which i told the fox designers was craop, refused to use and never endorsed. If other consultants do different thats down to them, but please do not assume that just because we are consultants we are all liars and immoral because thats just not true.

the blanker on 03/02/2012 18:18:45

I cant say whether or not the scenario that you describe is true mate i will take your word for it, but i cannot believe its commonplace. I was llucky enough to have been involved in making twenty plus programmes for TV and it wasnt how we operated. usually the waters that we fished were day ticket or commercial waters and we were open to the vagrancy of chance every time we went. In that time I am proud to say that we only failed to catch the target species once (catfish) and ironically it was the only time we pre-baited and had the run of the lake as the lake was closed to day tickets at that time (it was mainly a carp water). As regards the whole consultancy business I dont recall seeing many say that therecompanies stuff was the best, they do say though what they use, the inference usually being placed by the reader. When I was at fox if someone asked me about say a rod to use I would declare my interest first and tell them which rod in that range iused. In my time at fox there was nothing that was released which i felt wasnt fit for purpose bar one product, which i told the fox designers was craop, refused to use and never endorsed. If other consultants do different thats down to them, but please do not assume that just because we are consultants we are all liars and immoral because thats just not true. I know for a fact that it happened on a dayticket stretch of the Trent for an article in Angling Times, the best swim on the stretch was roped off and baited for a week, i complained to the Angling Times by e mail but never heard anything back, what a surprise.

magna barbus on 03/02/2012 18:48:18

Its all very interesting and perhaps a lot deeper than we think, I don't suggest that cheating or lying is wide spread at the end of the day those type stories are purely anecdotal, and whilst we can take them on board we cant do much with them, but my point is this, because of the pressure on the so called celeb angler for their successful capture of specimen fish of any species. I truly believe that theses guys will do anything to promote their status, I don't think they now get a buzz from seeing themselves in paper, I don't think they are motivated by the peace and tranquillity of a day by the water, I don't think they look forward to buying a new rod or reel, or maybe reading a book, they are totally consumed by their position as the current legend, a few weeks back I counted 8 euphemisms describing Angling Times regular contributors, they were as follows: Anglings greatest all rounder, Carp legend, Barbel Ace, Pike guru..... I think because they (the celebs) see themselves and position threatened by supposed rivals, their message becomes blurred, I would like to see more emphasis on the thought process of Angling, you must admit we do a lot of it, I for one, have, for the last 40 odd years have probably every day, thought about fishing one way or another, problem solving, planning, frustration, excitement, success, the next trip etc. but the current trend of writing is: turn up, cast out, catch a fish of a lifetime, take my photo and aint I marvellous. Let us see a little more depth and inspiration, rather than the familiar photographic guide to specimen hunting made easy... that is as long as you use this bait, and this rod lol!

Judas Priest on 03/02/2012 23:13:52

Evening all Wot a load of tosh this thread is. If you post a blog or piece and ask or hope for a "discussion" then in reality you've got to expect opinions of varying degrees. If all you post for is the slap on the back, isn't he brilliant type of reply then in reality (once again) you are delusional. Fair do's to Steve though he seems to accept both, it's the usual two suspects who object on his behalf like screaming lovestruck school girls. Give it a rest guys and just accept that others DO have a differing opinion to yours. Perhaps your time and effort may be better spent joining in on the helpful threads, such as Winter Baits and the like, and imparting your knowledge and experience to perhaps help others.

Rich Frampton on 04/02/2012 10:27:03

Evening all Wot a load of tosh this thread is. If you post a blog or piece and ask or hope for a "discussion" then in reality you've got to expect opinions of varying degrees. If all you post for is the slap on the back, isn't he brilliant type of reply then in reality (once again) you are delusional. Fair do's to Steve though he seems to accept both, it's the usual two suspects who object on his behalf like screaming lovestruck school girls. Give it a rest guys and just accept that others DO have a differing opinion to yours. Perhaps your time and effort may be better spent joining in on the helpful threads, such as Winter Baits and the like, and imparting your knowledge and experience to perhaps help others. Read my comments again.....

Peter Jacobs on 04/02/2012 12:19:23

Moderator hat: Off, i.e. Personal opinion Now let me see if I have the chronology right, maybe someone will care to corret me if I am wrong. First off we had Barbel Wars, then Barbel Wars 2 which was closely followed by Barbel Wars 3. Then came Son of Barbel Wars . . . . . . After which came Barbel Wars the Sequel and then, Barbel Wars the Prequel 1 and 2. Did I get it right or maybe I even missed out one or six! For the love of God, if you don't like the Barbel Society, then don't join, but please don't come on here moaning and groaning about those who have joined or indeed those who run the show there. It is fair enough to point out where you may or may not agree with points raised in an FM article, but we have had the bleating moaners for far too long when it comes to the Barbel Society; if you feel that strongly then go to thier site and complain on there - providing of course that you've not already been banned from there that is . . . . . . . . Geeze louise, some of you are supposed to be grown men too . . . . . Personal Rant over: moderator hat, back on . . . . .

longshaw on 04/02/2012 17:41:17

Peter, So why put up a contentious self publicising article and start a thread specifically "for discussing article " if you don't want it,perhaps the next thread title should just be "for backslapping author" if that is what is preferred then you would just get more like Fred's idolatry from the few remaining disciples? The reason why no one goes on their website any more is because any view other than that which is in praise of the leader or his decisions is immediately removed,one would have hoped under it's new leadership FM would be a broader church welcoming open and frank discussions as long as they were factual and non abusive which ,apart from Fred's comments ,we have had.

Fred Bonney on 04/02/2012 18:44:10

I think the list of requirements speaks volumes about what is so intrinsically wrong with the commercialisation of the Barbel Society and why so many real people no longer want anything to do with its leadership who judge anglers by their commercial success and how they have sold themselves to a gullible public. Your very first post was abusive to the leadership, and the members of the Barbel Society, let alone Steve who can handle himself, and was full of lies. Peter spotted it from the off. Steve's Diary, had nothing whatsover to do with your comments which were based on no more than old grudges! And then we see it, the old cry of victimisation comes up from those that attack and don't like it back up'em!!

longshaw on 04/02/2012 19:18:46

Which part of my comment was "lies" Fred? All I have stated is that in my opinion Steve has become too commercialised as highlighted by this specific rehashed article which sought to glorify those he had chosen to nominate as celebrities. I have also said that in my opinion it is wrong for somebody in a position of power to use that for personal gain. Are you really saying that either of those clearly stated opinions are "lies"or are they in reality just at odds with your recently stated objective of publicising the BS on FM at every opportunity,unfortunately the facts show that this flawed strategy has failed to reverse the continuing exodus. I really don't have a problem with you stating your opinion but do find it rather amusing when the mods criticise those with an alternative view and yet seemingly turn a blind eye to the free plugs others are quite correctly denied.

Bluenose on 04/02/2012 19:36:39

I really don't have a problem with you stating your opinion but do find it rather amusing when the mods criticise those with an alternative view and yet seemingly turn a blind eye to the free plugs others are quite correctly denied. Expand on a few points please! Whose plugs have I turned a blind eye to? Whose plugs have I denied? Whose alternative views have I criticised? I'll wait!

Fred Bonney on 04/02/2012 19:37:16

Keep on wriggling, Steve's Diary has nothing to do with the Barbel Society, you continuing posts do. If you were a member you would know everything you have stated in your posts are fabrications. What's this about an exodus, you have no idea, too long away and bearing ancient grudges I'm afraid. It's about time you composed a new songsheet, or got better toys to play with elsewhere, or are they broken?

Simon K on 04/02/2012 20:10:51

Evening all Wot a load of tosh this thread is. If you post a blog or piece and ask or hope for a "discussion" then in reality you've got to expect opinions of varying degrees. If all you post for is the slap on the back, isn't he brilliant type of reply then in reality (once again) you are delusional. Fair do's to Steve though he seems to accept both, it's the usual two suspects who object on his behalf like screaming lovestruck school girls. Give it a rest guys and just accept that others DO have a differing opinion to yours. Perhaps your time and effort may be better spent joining in on the helpful threads, such as Winter Baits and the like, and imparting your knowledge and experience to perhaps help others. Pretty much agree with that. I didn't think Steve's piece was anything more than a bit of "daydreaming" since the fishing side was obviously not happening for him. Who cares who he lists and whether they were B.S. (founder) members or not, that's his personal choice surely and is hardly going to influence anyone about anything one way or the other? Nothing to get hot under the collar about from any point of view. :w

Steve Pope on 05/02/2012 03:42:13

Simon, Pretty much spot on! Writing a diary allows an author to go off on a tangent, some of the best articles on FM do the very same. The only reason I listed the Founder members was because of space and it seemed logical to me! I'm lining up an Aussie river carping expedition next week so one way or another there should be some interesting stuff in the next diary. all the best.

longshaw on 05/02/2012 07:46:59

Fred It's an opinion,an opinion at odds with yours but never the less an opinion. If what I'm saying is incorrect then perhaps you could state the facts in relation to the two issues raised rather than just keep restating they are either lies or fabrications and making childish remarks about song sheets and toys. The point that as Communications Panel Chairman for the BS with a stated intention on another currently running thread of publicising the BS at every opportunity shows to me that for some reason this is being tolerated whereas others with similar intentions are very quickly edited by some mods quite correctly removing similar links to the blog which occasionally pops up in your sig. If I'm wrong in asserting that since your appointment the full fee paying membership has continued to fall then perhaps you could furnish us with the facts to clear it up. Steve,nobody's criticising your right to write the diary just the fact that anyone who responds,as invited and I'm sure expected, with an alternative view to yours, receives abuse rather than any intelligent response from your CPC. I am still of the opinion that by glorifying the commercial aspects of barbel angling as promoted in your re-hashed article it sends completely the wrong message to youngsters who aim to emulate the celebrities by seeking sponsorship deals rather than enjoy the art. I think I've said enough now and have nothing else to add so will sign off on this topic.

Fred Bonney on 05/02/2012 09:56:20

No need for facts they speak for themselves, you don't know anything about the current Barbel Society, how it's run, or how it's forum works. "If I'm wrong in asserting that since your appointment the full fee paying membership has continued to fall then perhaps you could furnish us with the facts to clear it up." You will have to take it for granted that what I say is factual, if you were a member you would find this out at the AGM, or even before I'm sure, if asked through the correct channel. As it stands you are a nameless nobody, and it is no business of yours. By the way, you can join today for £15 and as a result get £5 of this years Show, a magazine and a Newsletter and get to ask any question you like. Thanks for the opportunity for a plug. By the way, before you go, Bluenose awaits your response!

Lord Paul of Sheffield on 05/02/2012 14:16:26

Fred I think it's a fair point as to why when other publish details they are editoed and yet your plugging of the BS is llowed The reason I see for this is others are commercial ventures whilst the BS is not a comapny but a oragisation - so I think it's right that you are allowed to mention or plug he BS as often as you do - keep it up is there a Sheffield branch of the BS Fred or just a Yorkshire one? But saying No need for facts - well you might get a few ore members if you did give a few facts such as he asked for - but it's not my place to tell you how to do your job

the blanker on 05/02/2012 14:29:03

It gives none members the impresion that the BS is secretive only allowing certain information into the none members domain.not an attack just an observation.

Bluenose on 05/02/2012 14:35:53

Longshaw I asked you whose plugs have I turned a blind eye to, whose plugs have I denied, and whose alternative views have I criticised? I have given you the opportunity to reply and you have not! I accept that you may have made those suggestions hastily but I think it's fair to say you haven't been able to justify them, and your 'signing off' from this thread speaks volumes! Now, to clarify, with regards to removal of links or blatant plugs here is my rationale. If it's a link to a commercial venture then the site owner expects advertisers to pay, so if it is a blatant plug for a business, like the link Richard E posted to pallatrax, then it's gone. Richard understood and accepted this by the way ("..... I understand the reasoning, sorry" were his comments afterwards!) For every advertising link we have removed, and there haven't been that many, unless my memory has failed me then none of the original posters have complained directly to me, or to my knowledge, to any of the other mods! I also do not remember being over ruled by the Ed or owner with respect to any link removal! Now if it's a link to a blog, club or society then I think generally those links are left alone as to my mind they aren't blatant commercial ventures! I certainly cannot remember removing a link to club, society, blog or charity. Indeed if this ever has been the case please highlight when and where and I will amend accordingly If anyone else wants to complain about any moderating I think in the first instance they should contact the editor, Ian Welch and then the site owner Mr Richard Hewitt.

Lord Paul of Sheffield on 05/02/2012 15:01:18

Bluenose you put in to words what I was trying to say in my post - only you did it better

longshaw on 05/02/2012 15:12:48

Bluenose OK one more post to clarify my view which perhaps was made too hastily. Strange that Fred refers to me as a "nameless nobody" not worthy of a response but then insists on me replying to you,is Bluenose really your real name? I was under the impression that your post was rhetorical and tongue in cheek,clearly not so here's my response. There is no difference ,in my opinion ,to plugs if they are from any organisation that comes on here to attract either business or new members. Bob Roberts has contributed greatly to FM over the years and yet seemingly (just as one example off the top of my head without trawling through) his recent link was taken as being commercial but Fred's for The BS which even by his own admission is commercial are not so sorry I don't agree with your definition. It wasn't meant as a complaint more an observation and on that note if it's OK I can't see any point in continuing this discussion without reasoned debate of the facts which apparently are secret,for the time being;)

Fred Bonney on 05/02/2012 15:16:33

Your Lordship, not specificly Sheffield I'm afraid, no volunteers to run it...yet! To be honest, the blanker, if I was to get an approach from somebody known to me rather than somebody with an obvious problem, then I would give out ever bit of information I could, because that may mean that they take up membership. We have no secrets I'm afraid. I'm sure if you had any you would be cautious though ? You can see that Longshaw has an obvious problem on a personal basis, both with myself and Steve, no doubt one of those who thought that he could run the Barbel Society better, and threw his toys out when asked to do something to prove he could. My guess is that his current interest indicates that his own toys are perhaps broken!

Conrad Farlow on 05/02/2012 15:54:11

Well I have managed to avoid this until today and I have to say that I find the whole thing distasteful and utterly boring. Live and live I say, after all no-one has become a millionaire from barbel fishing and I'm prepared to bet that they never will. Who cares if a bloke does a bit of guiding in his later years to help fund his own fishing? Blogs, facebook and internet articles are the preferred method of promotion these days but personally I find that it all takes up too much of my fishing time - no problem at this time of the year but in the summer......mmmm. I started a blog and enjoyed doing it but simply ran out of time. If I was retired then no doubt things would be different. Another tip to all of you, use the quote button sparingly. If you want to know why go to the page that the article is on and try following this thread by reading the comments below the article. I suspect that the thread will have run out of steam by now,after all it's all been said before. Judging by the fact that I have written a book I am a celebrity so get me out of here ;-)

Judas Priest on 05/02/2012 16:33:10

To be honest fred if you told me the Pope is a Catholic i'd have to check first, as you've been proven to be wrong or economical on so many threads.

Rich Frampton on 05/02/2012 16:44:45

I can tell you that Steve isn't Phillip......... now run off will you.... :D

Judas Priest on 05/02/2012 16:54:53

oooooh Rich you are a funny chap. If there's one bloke who would know Steve's religous tastes I'd bank on it being you.

Rich Frampton on 05/02/2012 17:22:45

:D Never going to get on are we so not alot of point going through the motions Phil. You should know better than to slag the people who use their time to run the BS,bearing in mind that you were once there too......... unlike Longshank who hasn't done a thing anywhere. Rich.

Graham Elliott 1 on 05/02/2012 17:40:47

Ref Earlier Comments. I must admit I thought there was a special dispensation for the Fred and the BS, seeing as how many times it's touted. So to clarify. Anyone can link or add a blog for their fishing club? Graham

Judas Priest on 05/02/2012 18:14:45

Rich you're not quite getting the hang of this are you. It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with slagging off those who run any organisation more that I object strongly to anyone who purposely sets out to destroy/spoil every thread that doesn't fit in with their blinkered views, or because they carry on spiteful vendettas with very little knowledge of why except going on something they have heard second hand (as per your last sentence). As said on another thread perhaps yours and Freds time would be better spent actually helping others on threads with advice and ideas rather than spoiling continually. When you first appeared on the scene you made your mind up quite quickly posting on various forums, that you didn't like me much , intimating this and that across those forums without knowing the truth but listening to second and third hand gossip. This despite not knowing me from adam, having never met me and not knowing exactly what I had done over the years for the organisation you now support or indeed absolutely anything about me. So yes i'd agree that the chances of sharing a pint or three are quite slim

Fred Bonney on 05/02/2012 18:21:05

Some of us did that Phil, until you and yours came on the scene and started the nit picking and knocking! It sort of puts you off posting to save other readers the hassle

gingerbeard on 05/02/2012 18:23:49

I've just logged on and can't believe this thread is still going on. I've only been a member of this site for a few months, but have to admit that I'm getting a bit fed up of all these "bickering" forum threads. I can't wait for the summer when I'm sure most of the people posting will be out actually fishing rather than picking holes in the forum postings. I feel sorry for Steve, as I find his articles interesting and he comes across as a decent bloke with a great passion for the sport. It's a shame that his article has generated into this type of schoolboyish thread. One of the difficulties is that some replies intended for defence, are just stoking up the fire even more. Guys, just ignore it, move on and plan your next fishing trip. I'm no longer interested in this thread, but still interested in Steve's articles.

Rich Frampton on 05/02/2012 18:28:28

I think the list of requirements speaks volumes about what is so intrinsically wrong with the commercialisation of the Barbel Society and why so many real people no longer want anything to do with its leadership who judge anglers by their commercial success and how they have sold themselves to a gullible public. Let me remind you Phillip of the unnecessary pop at the BS as written by Longshaw. As I said right at the start.....it is an insult to our membership as they are,I am pleased to say, not gullible in the slightest. Without this post this thread wouldn't have got to the state it is in now. Rich.

Graham Elliott 1 on 05/02/2012 18:29:30

Its Ok. Just had a look at the terms and conditions for FM and the rules. You are not allowed to Upload, post or otherwise transmit any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, promotional materials, or any other form of solicitation. Make any commercial posts of any nature on any fishingmagic.com forum. So Iguess I can't add my fishing Club. Graham

Judas Priest on 05/02/2012 18:37:01

As I said right at the start.....it is an insult to our membership as they are, Rich. Don't you mean THE membership as those who serve on any committee are only there to REPRESENT THE MEMBERSHIP

Rich Frampton on 05/02/2012 18:39:12

Gentle reminder Phillip...... Doveridge. So I have. And I know from many people what tireless effort you put into the BS,which makes what you are doing on here now even sadder. Fed up with having to defend what we do on here to people who quite frankley couldn't give a t*ss anyway. Rich.

Judas Priest on 05/02/2012 18:39:28

Fred As said elsewhere if you post you've got to be able to back up your thoughts as people will have differing ideas and opinions to yours.

Fred Bonney on 05/02/2012 18:42:48

Leave him alone Rich, he'll only make a fool of himself again, and we don't want to look like bullies, do we ?

trigga on 05/02/2012 18:45:37

Some of us did that Phil, until you and yours came on the scene and started the nit picking and knocking! It sort of puts you off posting to save other readers the hassle It doesn't seem to put you off Fred! I tell you what though, this kind of thing certainly puts me off the BS - and i know many, many barbel anglers who feel the same. You obviously have no idea how bad it looks to people outside your circle of friends, or how damaging it is to your organisation. I thank the fishing gods that you and Frampton are no longer involved with BFW. At least there is one place where we don't have to suffer this kind of incessant schoolboy bickering.

Judas Priest on 05/02/2012 18:55:45

Leave him alone Rich, he'll only make a fool of himself again, QUOTE] Fred, may I point you in the direction of posts 31 and then 32 of the atmospheric pressure thread. Game, set and match over and out for now :-)

Bluenose on 05/02/2012 19:34:09

Bluenose OK one more post to clarify my view which perhaps was made too hastily. Strange that Fred refers to me as a "nameless nobody" not worthy of a response but then insists on me replying to you,is Bluenose really your real name? I was under the impression that your post was rhetorical and tongue in cheek,clearly not so here's my response. There is no difference ,in my opinion ,to plugs if they are from any organisation that comes on here to attract either business or new members. Bob Roberts has contributed greatly to FM over the years and yet seemingly (just as one example off the top of my head without trawling through) his recent link was taken as being commercial but Fred's for The BS which even by his own admission is commercial are not so sorry I don't agree with your definition. It wasn't meant as a complaint more an observation and on that note if it's OK I can't see any point in continuing this discussion without reasoned debate of the facts which apparently are secret,for the time being;) You don't see the difference between any kind of plugs, but I do! I provide a link to a club that gives fishing on 3 different rivers and a canal for £10 a year with no joining fee, it's even less for OAP's and kids! In my mind that's different from someone who is trying to promote a business, fishing or otherwise, where someone stands to gain financially. That's down to my and the other mods judgement and pretty much the way it's always been on FM by my recollection, and until the powers that be on FM tell me different then that's the way it stays! You alleged that we/I had double standards, you've come back with nothing save for a reference to Bob R, without a link. Now if there is any person on FM who does need you to fight his corner it's Bob R. However if Bob or anyone else has been wronged I'll repeat the bit in my previous post which you seem to have missed or forgotten. ..... I certainly cannot remember removing a link to club, society, blog or charity. Indeed if this ever has been the case please highlight when and where and I will amend accordingly Again ..... I'll wait!

Fred Bonney on 05/02/2012 20:00:46

It doesn't seem to put you off Fred! I tell you what though, this kind of thing certainly puts me off the BS - and i know many, many barbel anglers who feel the same. You obviously have no idea how bad it looks to people outside your circle of friends, or how damaging it is to your organisation. I thank the fishing gods that you and Frampton are no longer involved with BFW. At least there is one place where we don't have to suffer this kind of incessant schoolboy bickering. Really? I must have access to a different part of the site then!!

John McleLLan 2 on 05/02/2012 20:46:55

Surely this thread has run it 's course the moderators should now stop it. New members will wonder what all this bickering is all about. I thought this web site was to provide information about techniques,tackle etc.Not constant sniping at one and all.

longshaw on 05/02/2012 21:14:19

You alleged that we/I had double standards, you've come back with nothing save for a reference to Bob R, without a link. Now if there is any person on FM who does need you to fight his corner it's Bob R. However if Bob or anyone else has been wronged I'll repeat the bit in my previous post which you seem to have missed or forgotten. Bit of a schoolboy error that :wh 3/10 See me :D

Bluenose on 05/02/2012 21:43:47

No error at all. You made several comments about the uneven mod'ing of the site and you cannot substantiate it. Now stick with the theme of the thread, but as posted in the other thread, keep it nice please!

longshaw on 05/02/2012 22:28:42

"who does need you" Really ? The point I was trying to make was that even those of us who have had the benefit of a classical education and therefore capable of informed debate without resorting to cheap insults can,in the heat of the moment,make the odd grammatical error or perhaps you really do think Mr.Roberts does need my help to fight his corner when he has been modded for making what was considered to be a commercial post. I guess Fred gets around it as the T&C's specify that the organisation must be "profit making" so that would probably exempt the BS now. Clearly what I should have done was specified a particular mod rather than a sweeping generalism. Whilst I have my pedants hat on perhaps I could also bring up the matter of the privacy rule which some of us rely on to be enforced rather than the constant outing which Rich seems to find so amusing.

Rich Frampton on 05/02/2012 22:32:02

I think the list of requirements speaks volumes about what is so intrinsically wrong with the commercialisation of the Barbel Society and why so many real people no longer want anything to do with its leadership who judge anglers by their commercial success and how they have sold themselves to a gullible public. :D Dead funny. :D

Morespiders on 05/02/2012 22:38:38

Longshaw, bet you were a pain on other forums too, cannot understand what your trying to get over, can you start again?

Bluenose on 05/02/2012 22:41:13

Longshaw if the mod'ing privacy rules or whatever are not to your satisfaction then complain to the editor or the owner. Thanks.

Judas Priest on 06/02/2012 19:09:34

Gentle reminder Phillip...... Doveridge. So I have. Rich. Rich Be as gentle as you like old son as I couldn't make it to Doveridge on the night you attended, so no you haven't and yes you're wrong again.

Rich Frampton on 06/02/2012 19:37:06

???? oh well....... I was told you were sitting at the back of the room........ either way it must have been a memorable moment.

Steve Pope on 08/02/2012 00:35:34

Can I just say that while there may be more serious undertones to my Diary piece it was written in a light hearted fashion. I've been meaning to write on the subject for some time and the perfect opportunity arose. I expect the site will crash when the next instalment goes up! This topic really does stand alone, it isn't linked to any Organisation, the only reason I started with the names I did was because it fitted into the word count. All the best from the other side of the world where it is very cloudy and the river was too high to target the carp, but it will drop and I hope to give you an insight into river carping Aussie style very soon.

strikerbw on 08/02/2012 13:30:13

You see all these pages of bitching are the very reason that I left the BS. It was not necessarily the action of the chairman but all the politics side and all the arguing on the forum. I know I am not the only person who has done the same. Fishing should be about fishing, being out in nature's true beauty and also being able to have a social with your like-minded fellow anglers. Fred and Rich you may feel that you need to defend Steve at every opportunity but can't you see all this arguing and politics puts people off joining the BS and also makes current members question their membership? People join fishing clubs because they like fishing and if they are like me they use fishing as a chance to escape the stress and hustle and bustle of everyday life. I for one cannot be bothered with it and as a younger angler i think that it is a trait that appears to be more common amongst the older anglers. What about setting an impression to youngsters? Steve has just made a diary entry and it has descended into pages of dribble. Ask yourself what impression does this set to youngsters? Do you think they will feel comfortable posting in forums or will they be worried that they will get their head bitten off? Rich in your first post you mention the "hundreds of BS members" but forgive me if i'm wrong didn't membership used to be be in the "thousands"? Instead of spending so much time and effort defending Steve, who is a big boy and can fend for himself, perhaps use some of this time and effort to wonder why this decline in membership is so and what can be done about rectifying it. Fishing politics is boring. I have seen you in the past post about the beauty of being out fishing, same with Fred and Steve, well why not concentrate on this instead of all of this playground he-said, she-said tosh. And the people i consider fishing legends are not all famous, these are the guys that helped me learn how to barbel fish and still to this day provide me with information and also the banter and laughs we share when we get together. The clubs i am now in represent what fishing is really about............FUN!!! rant over. bw.

Lord Paul of Sheffield on 08/02/2012 13:41:52

You see all these pages of bitching are the very reason that I left the BS. It was not necessarily the action of the chairman but all the politics side and all the arguing on the forum. I know I am not the only person who has done the same. Fishing should be about fishing, being out in nature's true beauty and also being able to have a social with your like-minded fellow anglers. Fred and Rich you may feel that you need to defend Steve at every opportunity but can't you see all this arguing and politics puts people off joining the BS and also makes current members question their membership? People join fishing clubs because they like fishing and if they are like me they use fishing as a chance to escape the stress and hustle and bustle of everyday life. I for one cannot be bothered with it and as a younger angler i think that it is a trait that appears to be more common amongst the older anglers. What about setting an impression to youngsters? Steve has just made a diary entry and it has descended into pages of dribble. Ask yourself what impression does this set to youngsters? Do you think they will feel comfortable posting in forums or will they be worried that they will get their head bitten off? Rich in your first post you mention the "hundreds of BS members" but forgive me if i'm wrong didn't membership used to be be in the "thousands"? Instead of spending so much time and effort defending Steve, who is a big boy and can fend for himself, perhaps use some of this time and effort to wonder why this decline in membership is so and what can be done about rectifying it. Fishing politics is boring. I have seen you in the past post about the beauty of being out fishing, same with Fred and Steve, well why not concentrate on this instead of all of this playground he-said, she-said tosh. And the people i consider fishing legends are not all famous, these are the guys that helped me learn how to barbel fish and still to this day provide me with information and also the banter and laughs we share when we get together. The clubs i am now in represent what fishing is really about............FUN!!! rant over. bw. Heck of a 1st post

Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC) on 08/02/2012 15:35:21

...........................

Rich Frampton on 08/02/2012 17:03:25

Heck of a 1st post I wouldn't be supprised if it isn't someone using a new identity that we know. :/

Lord Paul of Sheffield on 08/02/2012 17:05:54

I wouldn't be supprised if it isn't someone using a new identity that we know. :/ Never crossed my mind;)

Rich Frampton on 08/02/2012 17:15:10

Well it did me....... I have had enough of this horse sh*t. Steve is a mate of mine....I care about the BS.....so what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cg74 on 08/02/2012 17:37:01

I wouldn't be supprised if it isn't someone using a new identity that we know. :/ You'll never learn will you? Can substantiate your claim? I think not, so why not ignore it and things will smoothly ride past barely noticed.... Have a go at me if you wish, I'm not harming something I enjoy being apart of, can you say the same??

Ron The Hat Clay on 08/02/2012 17:43:48

Oh Dear, There is nothing wrong with my friend Steve Pope. Steve is obviously a self confessed fanatical barbel angler who is passionate about the BS and I see nothing wrong with that. What I do object to is those of you on this thread who throw around insults from behind silly pseudonyms. If you do not have the courage to use your real name, then not only myself, but many others will have no respect for you. If you are not prepared to put up, shut up! And Magnus Barbus, please split your post into paragraphs, attempting to read it has given me a headache in more ways than one.

strikerbw on 08/02/2012 17:45:07

Has all this bickering given you paranoias? My name is Ben whitehouse, hence the 'bw' in strikerbw. If you look back at BS forums from 2 years ago you would have seen me post on the Teme thread . I very occasionally post on bfw. I have nothing to hide, I'm not a keyboard warrior. Check bs membership from previous years. I left cause of all this politics. People would not respond to my posts on bs forum when I inquired about things as an inexperienced barbel angler yet there would be pages of posts with arguing about this and that. Also if I'm being honest the multiple instances of the Bonney /frampton v the world was getting on my nerves. I go fishing cause I live fishing, not sitting behind a screen giving it the big one! Ive only just posted on this site but I see nothing has changed. Different site/same s**t. And so now I have clarified who I am maybe you could answer my question...... Why is membership now in its "hundreds" instead of "thousands"? I know Of other ppl who left for same reason as me and I'm sure others think of doing it . Just don't rise to it and get on with some fishing. It's not even the close season yet! Bw

Neil Maidment on 08/02/2012 17:51:05

I wouldn't be supprised if it isn't someone using a new identity that we know. :/ As of now (17:40ish - almost 4 hours later) the FM systems have not identified that members first post as anything but a genuine opinion from a genuine member (albeit became a member some time ago). By "we" I assume you refer to the Barbel Society or friends of yours? The almost constant suspicion is very tiring (and I do know most of the history and some of the individuals involved). If you have your suspicions then a PM to one of the Moderators would be extremely useful and, in my opinion, the right course of action. ---------- Post added at 17:51 ---------- Previous post was at 17:47 ---------- And so now I have clarified who I am maybe you could answer my question...... Why is membership now in its "hundreds" instead of "thousands"? I cannot speak for the BS but I assume they would, quite rightly, only give an answer to that question to current BS members.

cg74 on 08/02/2012 18:07:10

Magnus Barbus, please split your post into paragraphs, attempting to read it has given me a headache in more ways than one. I'm in agreement with you there, must be a blue moon tonight....

the blanker on 08/02/2012 18:32:51

If the membership of the BS is falling then wouldnt it make more sense for the BS officers who are so vocal on here to be wondering why membership is falling ( if it is falling but it hasnt been denied ) and trying to do something about it. There has been a lot of good advice given on this thread which has been mostly ignored and now we have an ex member giving his reasons for leaving, if i was considering joining the BS ( which i am not ) the constant jumping to the defence of someone who can probably look after himself and any small difference of opinion about the BS from anyone would have made my mind up for me, i would not join and i would bet i wouldnt be the only one.

Lord Paul of Sheffield on 08/02/2012 18:33:52

I recently cut my finger - it bled a little and stung for a few seconds but nothing life threatening , or even danger that I'd lose a finger - just a little cut It scabbed over nicely and after a day or 2 started to iche, then foolishly I picked the scab and it bled and stung a little again THis cycle has kept repeating with me not learnng to leave the scab alone so it just fades away - instead I'm left with a nasty scab that looks like it may be infected and I'll probably have a small scar on my finger for life - again nothing very serious by it will always be there next time I get a scab I'm leaving it well alone - and I'll also cover it to stop others irritating it

chav professor on 08/02/2012 18:37:17

I recently cut my finger - it bled a little and stung for a few seconds but nothing life threatening , or even danger that I'd lose a finger - just a little cut It scabbed over nicely and after a day or 2 started to iche, then foolishly I picked the scab and it bled and stung a little again THis cycle has kept repeating with me not learnng to leave the scab alone so it just fades away - instead I'm left with a nasty scab that looks like it may be infected and I'll probably have a small scar on my finger for life - again nothing very serious by it will always be there next time I get a scab I'm leaving it well alone - and I'll also cover it to stop others irritating it Is this story analogous to the way Barbel bickering threads head - Quickly:D

Lord Paul of Sheffield on 08/02/2012 18:40:38

Read in to it what you will :D;)

Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC) on 08/02/2012 19:03:34

I have the same problem with my farmer giles, Paul. I can't help picking and scratching. I'm caught in a cycle. Would you suggest that I try not to pick and scratch and try to ignore the irritation?

trigga on 08/02/2012 19:04:55

Read in to it what you will :D;) What Rich and Fred have is a rash, not a cut. It started out as just small patch of irritating skin but instead of sorting it out they scratched it relentlessly. In doing so the rash has spread, the more they scratch the more little patches become irritated. Hopefully one day they will take a proper look at the rash, realise it's not just one small patch that they thought it was, turn the laptop off and go to the doctors to get it sorted out.

Simon K on 08/02/2012 19:42:35

I wouldn't be supprised if it isn't someone using a new identity that we know. :/ Rich, bearing in mind Neil's "Mod" response to this post (and I seem to recall the Mods have said before that multiple-user accounts are no longer tolerated or allowed on FM now), this is exactly the attitude I was referring to in the other thread. Knee-jerk reaction without thinking of the wider consequences and implications. And not a shred of humility when you're shown to be wrong. You (and Fred) may think you're playing to a very small gallery of regular forum posters, but you're not. There are not only thousands of people who read these posts who are NOT FM logged members (plus the thousands who are) but these posts are up here for posterity too. Remember the phrase "the silent majority"? Now multiply Ben's comments as a new poster by the 10 times that number that think the same, but aren't members. How many potential members might have been lost thanks to this paranoid attitude displayed by the pair of you? Respond in haste, repent at leisure. I wouldn't tolerate any of my staff behaving like this in front of the public.

john m h on 08/02/2012 19:50:27

I have the same problem with my farmer giles, Paul. I can't help picking and scratching. I'm caught in a cycle. Would you suggest that I try not to pick and scratch and try to ignore the irritation? ... or ask at your local chemist, they're sure to have a soothing cream.

Poshpaul (Angling Trust and PaSC) on 08/02/2012 19:54:01

Just to confirm Simon's post that mutliple user accounts are not allowed.

Fred Bonney on 08/02/2012 20:05:08

A good day editing the next Barbel Fisher. Ben, there were never "thousands" of members. From memory the membership, when you were involved, was lower than it is now. That's all I'm saying on this subject.

john m h on 08/02/2012 20:14:23

Just to confirm Simon's post that mutliple user accounts are not allowed. With the correct software not only can a users IP No be logged, but the actual address where the PC is sited can be found. Scary init :eek:

Lord Paul of Sheffield on 08/02/2012 20:15:33

Pick pick Oh stings

strikerbw on 08/02/2012 20:24:34

Fred, I meant before I was a member I know numbers weren't like that. All I'm trying to get across is that you and Rich should just ignore it. If you believe that the BS is great then you just got to ignore ppl who clearly love winding you up and it doesnt matter what others think. I'm not just on about these bickerings but all bickering on all the sites . Surely it is better to just get on with the fishing. The reason I left is I couldnt be bothered with all the politics and for the reasons I just previously mentioned. Surely it would look better if you just Rose above it. Going back to youngsters, they are continually told by parents teachers to rise above ppl giving them stick, so why is this different for grown men?!? I know , cause it was the case for me as a young amateur, that seeing all this nonsense would make you think twice about posting, which is a shame as forums can be a great way of learning things, especially if like me you had nobody to show you! It's even worse when you see that this bickering is also being done by people who amateurs look up to as they are well known names in the barbel world. Fishing is fishing. Sat on the banks of the Severn in the snow and sunlight, as pretty as a picture, last weekend with Robin keeping me company, now that's What fishing is about! Sticks and stones..... Bw

Fred Bonney on 08/02/2012 20:29:06

Ben, I know what you meant in respect of numbers, they have never been in the thousands. Sorry,I won't respond to anything else you've written, too many looking for an argument, I'm afraid. Cue....

shelly on 08/02/2012 20:41:20

... or ask at your local chemist, they're sure to have a soothing cream. I’m not a doctor but I diagnose Thrush, I can confirm you need cream to cure an irritating C**t:D:D

strikerbw on 08/02/2012 21:34:18

Fred, People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Surely the fact you seem to be involved in so much bickering means your as much to blame. If you don't enjoy it you do give the impression that you do. Just post about fishing! Bw

trigga on 08/02/2012 22:51:49

Sorry,I won't respond to anything else you've written, too many looking for an argument, I'm afraid. Too many Fred? You mean it's not just one or two then . . . . What rattles my cage is you are so quick to call people rotten for sniping at the organisation you represent, yet at the same time you happily throw in little digs regarding BFW or the ABF. You call fowl regards name calling then refer to one member as "slimey old X " and another as thick headed. You are just as bad, if not worse, than the one or two individuals you claim us all to be. Best of all is your constant attack on those who do not use their real names. You both had your chance on a Barbel forum that insists on users using their real names and you both blew it.

magna barbus on 08/02/2012 22:56:55

Oh Dear, And Magnus Barbus, please split your post into paragraphs, attempting to read it has given me a headache in more ways than one. There you are Ron I have edited my last Posting, I hope your poor old eyes rest easy now....whilst we are on the subject can you get my top secret name right, it aint Mangus (sounds like some afflicted scot) its Magna Barbus, which translates to Great Barbel..... peace be upon you all :)

Fred Bonney on 08/02/2012 23:34:34

Too many Fred? You mean it's not just one or two then . . . . What rattles my cage is you are so quick to call people rotten for sniping at the organisation you represent, yet at the same time you happily throw in little digs regarding BFW or the ABF. You call fowl regards name calling then refer to one member as "slimey old X " and another as thick headed. You are just as bad, if not worse, than the one or two individuals you claim us all to be. Best of all is your constant attack on those who do not use their real names. You both had your chance on a Barbel forum that insists on users using their real names and you both blew it. Just for clarification trigga,I never did subscribe to BFW and you can check the records on that ;)

Graham Elliott 1 on 09/02/2012 00:14:34

Hi Ben. Hope you are catching a few. Last week had a pheasant on the banks of the Thames taking bits of boilies from my hand. Great. Graham

cg74 on 09/02/2012 00:57:42

Just for clarification trigga,I never did subscribe to BFW and you can check the records on that ;) That maybe the case Fred but you were banned none the less - Persistent spamming I do believe? As for Rich F. wasn't it for being antagonistic, then he wormed his way back in, only to bitch and snipe about the A of BF, banned again and god knows why but that was changed to him leaving of his own accord. Oh and before you ask; I was banned for my "continued negativity shown to a super moderator" Something I'm neither proud nor ashamed of..... As for leaving the A of BF, I chose to leave because I didn't like the heavy handedness and double standard of one of the commitee, that coupled with me finding Tony Rocca's constant bitching about the BS tedious to say the least.

Ron The Hat Clay on 09/02/2012 05:57:31

my top secret name So what are you scared of? I really don't understand why self opinionated people have to hide behind a false name. It denotes cowardice in my book. For all I know you might be a known angler who would command some respect, certainly from me. But by using a pseudonym you are relegating yourself to just another Troll. ---------- Post added at 22:57 ---------- Previous post was at 22:19 ---------- Its all very interesting and perhaps a lot deeper than we think, I don't suggest that cheating or lying is wide spread at the end of the day those type stories are purely anecdotal, and whilst we can take them on board we cant do much with them, but my point is this, because of the pressure on the so called celeb angler for their successful capture of specimen fish of any species. I truly believe that theses guys will do anything to promote their status, I don't think they now get a buzz from seeing themselves in paper, I don't think they are motivated by the peace and tranquillity of a day by the water, I don't think they look forward to buying a new rod or reel, or maybe reading a book, they are totally consumed by their position as the current legend, a few weeks back I counted 8 euphemisms describing Angling Times regular contributors, they were as follows: Anglings greatest all rounder, Carp legend, Barbel Ace, Pike guru..... I think because they (the celebs) see themselves and position threatened by supposed rivals, their message becomes blurred, I would like to see more emphasis on the thought process of Angling, you must admit we do a lot of it, I for one, have, for the last 40 odd years have probably every day, thought about fishing one way or another, problem solving, planning, frustration, excitement, success, the next trip etc. but the current trend of writing is: turn up, cast out, catch a fish of a lifetime, take my photo and aint I marvellous. Let us see a little more depth and inspiration, rather than the familiar photographic guide to specimen hunting made easy... that is as long as you use this bait, and this rod lol! Excellent post, I couldn't agree more. Now let's have your real name and you'll receive the respect you deserve.

Fred Bonney on 09/02/2012 07:01:19

Right lets get this straight. Firstly I have never mentioned ABF or BFW on this site. Trigga gives every indication of being involved with both of those organisations and I'm pretty certain at this early stage,who he is. As he's bought up BFW, I will tell you why I was banned, and yes Colin is right, it was for "spamming". What was happening (and it all happened around the formation of the other group that I've never mentioned on here) was that if I was asked any question about something Barbel Society related, after putting up messages in reply, there would be the usual suspects, coming on and knocking the BS. The moderators, some of whom were wearing the two hats of BFW and the other organisation failed to moderate. Shall we say as well as the moderators on here (do). As a result I just refered those asking the question direct to the appropriate answer on the website or blog of the BS. So the failure of a moderating team to work without bias, lead me to "spam" If that was what it was. Now, as far as the ABF is concerned I have no idea what goes on there, and have no wish to know what goes on there. It is of no surprise to me to hear what Colin has to say about Rocca, that is what he and his cohorts did on the BS site, and from time to time have done on this site. What all this is about, and some of you are helping by stoking the fire, is personal, nothing more and nothing less. So nothing to do with barbel fishing. It's bully boy tactics by some mostly Rocca's cronies,(and you of all people Colin should know that) to get individuals like Rich Frampton, Steve Pope and me to say sod it, I don't need all this personal stuff it's only fishing. Well for some years, and I touched on how long it has been earlier, that has been the case and we are still here, we have stood our ground. We're not going to chuck in all we've done for the Barbel Society, just because a group of shits want it to be their bat and ball. Their bat and ball I may add, that they had no wish to keep in good condition whilst they were members, and did nothing when it came down to actually keep it in good condition for fellow members. So despite the claims that we have lost members, maybe we have, but as a a result of those people no longer being around, we have seen returning members, and because of the work being done to make ourselves available to prospective members, membership is growing, because we have something to offer. It may not reach the original numbers of members from it's early days certainly not at speed, but who could expect it too, in the times of financial stress we have suffered for the last few years. What I will say is that those bully boys wont get hold of our balls! So that's all I have to say, you can take that as fact, or as I've said before you can do the other thing!

Rich Frampton on 09/02/2012 07:15:57

Couldn't have put it better myself. Last night after all the texts and hassle on here I was at an all time low.....very low. The game that is played had nearly beaten me....... but it didn't. I will not be posting on here again but I am not going to give Mr.Rocca and his spineless associates the pleasure of winning so I ain't going anywhere as far as the BS is concerned. I get far more messages of support and appreciation from people than I do the negative ones. So...tight lines everyone. Rich.

Ron The Hat Clay on 09/02/2012 07:49:57

Very well said Fred. As regards the Rocca Trolls, just take no notice of them. Years ago I used to get upset, but not now. Sorry that you won't be posting on FM any more Rich. FM needs members like youself, people with guts who are not afraid to post using their real names.

magna barbus on 09/02/2012 09:21:05

Hi Ron and the rest of grumbling masses....(I mean that with affection :)), I have never hid behind anyone or anything in my life, I don't intend to start now, I chose the pseudonym because I was asked for one, never realising it would cause such offence, and be used on every posting, if you look on BFW you will see my name is clear and bright with no false names, I will change my details accordingly......oh yes, my name is Lawrence Breakspear.

Lord Paul of Sheffield on 09/02/2012 09:36:05

I'm Sparticus

Simon K on 09/02/2012 09:54:49

Its all very interesting and perhaps a lot deeper than we think, I don't suggest that cheating or lying is wide spread at the end of the day those type stories are purely anecdotal, and whilst we can take them on board we cant do much with them, but my point is this, because of the pressure on the so called celeb angler for their successful capture of specimen fish of any species. I truly believe that theses guys will do anything to promote their status, I don't think they now get a buzz from seeing themselves in paper, I don't think they are motivated by the peace and tranquillity of a day by the water, I don't think they look forward to buying a new rod or reel, or maybe reading a book, they are totally consumed by their position as the current legend, a few weeks back I counted 8 euphemisms describing Angling Times regular contributors, they were as follows: Anglings greatest all rounder, Carp legend, Barbel Ace, Pike guru..... I think because they (the celebs) see themselves and position threatened by supposed rivals, their message becomes blurred, I would like to see more emphasis on the thought process of Angling, you must admit we do a lot of it, I for one, have, for the last 40 odd years have probably every day, thought about fishing one way or another, problem solving, planning, frustration, excitement, success, the next trip etc. but the current trend of writing is: turn up, cast out, catch a fish of a lifetime, take my photo and aint I marvellous. Let us see a little more depth and inspiration, rather than the familiar photographic guide to specimen hunting made easy... that is as long as you use this bait, and this rod lol! I think you're simplifying it too much and not allowing for the pressures in the medium in which it's presented. Each contributor (celeb, if you will) has an allotted amount of space. Being a visual medium there'll be a requirement for pics. So we're already talking about a limited word-count in any given piece. If it took a week to catch the fish, would you want to read about 6 days of blanks even if there were space enough? No and neither would I. I want to read about what works, preferably and why it does. And don't forget the editing process within the publication, whatever the "celeb" has written will be tailored to the magazines desires, regardless. Which is outside their control. You might be surprised how often features/trips planned months in advance fail to produce a catch and are then never published, but because you don't get to read about them, you assume they don't happen. So who can blame someone for pre-baiting and doing all the tricks we often do ourselves to give ourselves the "edge" to make a session successful? To condemn this is entirely hypocritical. The readers don't want to read about failure, the publications don't want to produce "null content" articles. It reduces their competitiveness in what is a small and competitive market. With regards product placement, why do people get so het up about it in fishing? So what if they don't use the product in their "real" fishing. Do you think all those actors and celebs advertising Brand X on TV etc actually use it? And do you think any less of them when you watch them in their acting roles or whatever they do? Of course not. Perhaps we should give Steve P some credit for admitting the blanks, but giving some thought to something else as "filler". He could have just "not" submitted a piece and made an excuse?

strikerbw on 09/02/2012 09:59:23

Hi Ben. Hope you are catching a few. Last week had a pheasant on the banks of the Thames taking bits of boilies from my hand. Great. Graham Hi graham, hope your well mate. I've been winking a few out! Decided to give the pike fishing a go and it resulted in a new pb chub on a big lamprey section. Funny old game this fishing lark. The Robin was entertaining but he wouldn't move off my feeder rod so bite detection was difficult but it was entertaining none the less . Hopefully bump into you over the summer sometime. All the best ,bw

magna barbus on 09/02/2012 10:04:38

Fair Comment Simon K, but I disagree as my thoughts be them right or wrong believe that the present bubble gum writing is shallow and smacks of the promotion and elevation of the writer rather than the inspiration and the informing of the reader. It may be an age thing, I come from an age where I was inspired by Walker, Hilton,Stone, Taylor, Bill Keal, Tag Barnes and Peter Wheat et al, and I will be first to admit that doesn't make me right and I am open to discussion. But it is nice the thread is back on track and discussing the Celeb culture that Steve first started.

Graham Elliott 1 on 09/02/2012 10:21:57

Ben. The xx ran some Barbel Teach In days last season that would be an ideal opportunity to fish with some really knowledgable members if they happen again. When I spoke at the xx Conference a few years ago the membership was around 1200 and is now just above half of that. (expect those figs to be challenged) Of course many moved to other organisations for the very reasons you highlighted and see mirrored on here. No doubt disappointing, given the excellent work by Pete Reading etc. They do have some really helpful members and is certainly was a very friendly place from my knowledge. You would have probably have received the info about about those sort of things and an apology for the way you were welcomed by some in your pm box. Don't be afraid to ask any fishing questions on the fishing bit. I will try and give as much advice as I can, and there are some very very good anglers here on FM. Hope to se you on the Wye or elsewhere when the weather gets a bit warmer for the old 'uns. Good fishing

Simon K on 09/02/2012 10:27:16

I don't disagree Lawrence, that the "quality" of angling writing has degenerated in absolute terms from previous generations. The main difference is that very little is pioneering nowadays in the way it used to be. Also that the media this writing is presented to us through in the current age is tailored to shorter attention spans and immediate messages. It won't be long before all media consumption is by internet via hand-held technology and paper is a thing of the past. Watch the content shrink even further when that happens. Text message alerts when a big fish is caught, anyone? A la "Twitchers" network? ;)

Graham Elliott 1 on 09/02/2012 10:36:24

Like me, Lol you were probably brought up on the excellent pieces of pure magic in the "Creel" magazine. Its changed, but so again has everything else...take football for example. Its all about endorsements, marketing and product and service placement. I simply don't buy any magazines. I do have to say the Barbel Fisher is still a pretty good Magazine though. I wonder if a magazine without the quick fix mentality would survive nowadays. I doubt it. Graham

Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC) on 09/02/2012 11:06:59

a few years ago the membership was around 1200 and is now just above half of that. Maybe BS members are being eaten by otters.

barbelboi on 09/02/2012 11:09:26

I haven't bought any mags for years. Used to have the whole series of Creel in the 60's - now just got the number 1 issue. Jerry

cg74 on 09/02/2012 11:10:20

Maybe BS members are being eaten by otters. Ah, but only the 'specimen' sized ones...

magna barbus on 09/02/2012 11:28:45

Simon/ Graham you are both right of course in different ways, although the creel mag was a little before my time, I grew up and was influenced, by Coarse Fisherman, Coarse Angler, Fishing Magazine, The Anglers Mail and The Angling Times, I think those days will never return to be honest, the older you get the more nostalgic you become. My views are not based on nostalgia, though my personal history is and my development as an Angler is my reference point, its with me and always will be. My thoughts are much deeper than that, we are faced with angling being in decline, especially certain types of Angling, we have the Angling Times circulation plummeting to all time lows, so why is this, is it a cyclical event, and at some time in the distant future will we see its resurgence? I doubt it, part of Angling's gratification process is the sense of success in the midst of failure, commercial fisheries have taken this away. I have always said (forgive me for repeating this) fishing was never meant to be easy, most sports and pastimes relish the challenge, even other factions of our past time make things difficult for them selves and relish the challenge, up stream dry fly, fishing for large Carp in low population waters, Terry Hearne is a great exponent of this and not only writes about his success, but also conveys his discomfort, the blanks and his disappointments in his writings, this creates empathy, understanding and inspiration with the reader, and more importantly, the way he over comes his failures, unfortunately the current handful of weekly writers seem to fill the papers with pictures and pap ( my opinion). I accept that we need prominent anglers rather than the celebrity culture at the forefront to entertain us, to inspire us and to be inventive, but also, more importantly for them to maintain the moral high ground of Angling, to contain the positive messages (subliminally or overt) on the value of fishing, its benefits and its rewards, rather than the..... as long as you buy this, and use that message. I think the whole celeb thing is a lot deeper and rather sinister, its psychological and manipulative, instead of being philosophical and thought provoking. But at the end of the day, these are just the thoughts and ramblings of an old Barbel fisherman......lol!

cg74 on 09/02/2012 11:40:10

Right lets get this straight. Firstly I have never mentioned ABF or BFW on this site. Trigga gives every indication of being involved with both of those organisations and I'm pretty certain at this early stage,who he is. As he's bought up BFW, I will tell you why I was banned, and yes Colin is right, it was for "spamming". What was happening (and it all happened around the formation of the other group that I've never mentioned on here) was that if I was asked any question about something Barbel Society related, after putting up messages in reply, there would be the usual suspects, coming on and knocking the BS. The moderators, some of whom were wearing the two hats of BFW and the other organisation failed to moderate. Shall we say as well as the moderators on here (do). As a result I just refered those asking the question direct to the appropriate answer on the website or blog of the BS. So the failure of a moderating team to work without bias, lead me to "spam" If that was what it was. Now, as far as the ABF is concerned I have no idea what goes on there, and have no wish to know what goes on there. It is of no surprise to me to hear what Colin has to say about Rocca, that is what he and his cohorts did on the BS site, and from time to time have done on this site. What all this is about, and some of you are helping by stoking the fire, is personal, nothing more and nothing less. So nothing to do with barbel fishing. It's bully boy tactics by some mostly Rocca's cronies,(and you of all people Colin should know that) to get individuals like Rich Frampton, Steve Pope and me to say sod it, I don't need all this personal stuff it's only fishing. Well for some years, and I touched on how long it has been earlier, that has been the case and we are still here, we have stood our ground. We're not going to chuck in all we've done for the Barbel Society, just because a group of shits want it to be their bat and ball. Their bat and ball I may add, that they had no wish to keep in good condition whilst they were members, and did nothing when it came down to actually keep it in good condition for fellow members. So despite the claims that we have lost members, maybe we have, but as a a result of those people no longer being around, we have seen returning members, and because of the work being done to make ourselves available to prospective members, membership is growing, because we have something to offer. It may not reach the original numbers of members from it's early days certainly not at speed, but who could expect it too, in the times of financial stress we have suffered for the last few years. What I will say is that those bully boys wont get hold of our balls! So that's all I have to say, you can take that as fact, or as I've said before you can do the other thing! Fred, you need a lesson in paragraphing from Magna Barbus...:) I'm not going to get in a pointless argument with you, but regards BFW, you certainly have posted derogatory remarks about that site. As for the A of BF, I can't recall you ever being negative about that set up, though RF most definitely has been very down on them, but on a positive; I'm lead to believe Tony Rocca has been given a wrap on the knuckles about his continuous bitching about the BS. The point is Fred, like it or not, you DO represent the BS, so when you become involved in stupid online spats, it DOES reflect badly on the BS. You might be wondering what odds it makes to me, well, when so many perfectly constructive threads get polluted by this *****, it gets tedious. Take a leaf out of Steve's book; when he gets questioned over something sensitive, he responds in the form of a statement, answers the questions being asked, leaves it a while to let ALL his detractors respond and then if he feels the need makes another 'statement' No to'ing and fro'ing, bitching or arguing. Or try Ron Clay's approach when asked awkward question; ignore and move on to another thread.

Graham Elliott 1 on 09/02/2012 11:40:14

Lol. I hope you manage to get your hands on some of the Creel Mags then, if you haven't already. Pure delight with many of the "names" of the day, mentioned by you and others prominent. BV, DW, Len Arberry, Peter Stone, Taylors, Peter Wheat to mention just a few. An excellent post by the way. Jerry. I had the whole set in binders. Sold them. BIG mistake. Graham

Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC) on 09/02/2012 11:49:41

Or try Ron Clay's approach when asked awkward question; ignore and move on to another thread. :):)hahahaha love it.

magna barbus on 09/02/2012 11:51:39

Lol. I hope you manage to get your hands on some of the Creel Mags then, if you haven't already. Pure delight with many of the "names" of the day, mentioned by you and others prominent. BV, DW, Len Arberry, Peter Stone, Taylors, Peter Wheat to mention just a few. An excellent post by the way. Dont get me wrong Graham, I have read many copies of the Creel mag and enjoy the simplicity of those days and the gentle enthusiasm of the writings, the past is important, I am currently reading Confessions of a Carp Fisher for the millionth time, and I'm still amazed at BB's eloquent, but descriptive writing of that time.

Derek Gibson on 09/02/2012 12:16:22

I haven't bought any mags for years. Used to have the whole series of Creel in the 60's - now just got the number 1 issue. Jerry Jerry, I still have the set, and derive great pleasure from reading through them from time to time. It may be me but, there seemed to be a gentler feel to that era, a willingness to listen without rancour or vitriol, unlike today. If I'm wrong, so be it, I'm content.

Simon K on 09/02/2012 12:36:44

My views are not based on nostalgia, though my personal history is and my development as an Angler is my reference point, its with me and always will be. My thoughts are much deeper than that, we are faced with angling being in decline, especially certain types of Angling, we have the Angling Times circulation plummeting to all time lows, so why is this, is it a cyclical event, and at some time in the distant future will we see its resurgence? I doubt it, part of Angling's gratification process is the sense of success in the midst of failure, commercial fisheries have taken this away. I have always said (forgive me for repeating this) fishing was never meant to be easy, most sports and pastimes relish the challenge, even other factions of our past time make things difficult for them selves and relish the challenge, up stream dry fly, fishing for large Carp in low population waters, Terry Hearne is a great exponent of this and not only writes about his success, but also conveys his discomfort, the blanks and his disappointments in his writings, this creates empathy, understanding and inspiration with the reader, and more importantly, the way he over comes his failures, unfortunately the current handful of weekly writers seem to fill the papers with pictures and pap ( my opinion). I accept that we need prominent anglers rather than the celebrity culture at the forefront to entertain us, to inspire us and to be inventive, but also, more importantly for them to maintain the moral high ground of Angling, to contain the positive messages (subliminally or overt) on the value of fishing, its benefits and its rewards, rather than the..... as long as you buy this, and use that message. I think the whole celeb thing is a lot deeper and rather sinister, its psychological and manipulative, instead of being philosophical and thought provoking. But at the end of the day, these are just the thoughts and ramblings of an old Barbel fisherman......lol! Lawrence, are you not confusing Terry's books (where he has maximum space to describe his exploits) with the more compact demands of the weeklies? The paper media is bound to decline as anglers look to the internet as a more immediate and daily "up-to-date" medium for information. I have no doubt that the AT/AM et al will exist as subscription websites only in short order since it will cut production costs and be up-to-the-moment news. On the plus side, the unlimited space may mean longer, more "in-depth" articles could make a comeback, providing there is the talent and will to make it happen. Regardless, anglers still have to go fishing and catch fish to make it happen? I like the challenge of low density, big waters and their ilk and getting away from the crowd, but I recognise that I'm very much in the minority. The commercial waters are crowded because the majority of anglers want quick success, they may not have the time to spend session after session trying to work out where the fish are, they may not have the skills to do so anyway or the technical know-how to change their presentations to fool the fish they do find. Faced with these problems regularly, they'd probably give up fishing. We should be thankful for the continued choice of being able to choose between the two types of venue. Just be glad that commercials exist to take some of the pressure off the rest. They're also a pretty good place for kids to start since the greater chance of catching something (anything) is more likely to keep them interested enough to better themselves, expand their horizons and take up new challenges the more experienced they become.

Ron The Hat Clay on 09/02/2012 12:39:41

oh yes, my name is Lawrence Breakspear Welcome to FM Lawrence, and I mean that sincerely. Most times we don't have the hassels of this thread and we are a good bunch. We have a common friend - good old Des. I was sorry when he stopped writing for AT. He was one of the reasons I bought the paper. I don't think I have bought a copy of AT since Des left. The only papers I take these days is Angling Star, occasional Fly Fishing and Fly Tying and Coarse Angling Today.

Fred Bonney on 09/02/2012 12:44:09

Des is back Ron! The Diary of a Countryman Double page spread in this weeks AT re drop shotting for perch

strikerbw on 09/02/2012 13:05:43

Graham, Yeah thanks for that and I'm sure there are plenty of decent guys. I think the barbel schools are a good idea. But the one good thing that came out of the society is the chance to meet the one bloke who I owe a lot of thanks to and still fish with today(but his name will remain nameless)! Whilst I felt dismayed about the BS the guys I have been lucky enough to join some cracking clubs , full of top blokes and my fishing has come on leaps and bounds in the last few years ! It is a shame that it has got to the point where i post on here for the first time and be accused of being a fake! And contrary to what Ron says, i don't think it matters if people use their real name or not........... i mean is Ron's real middle name "the hat"? But like yourself i do think it is a shame and although i can understand people wanting to defend their club i find it confusing that they cannot see the damage it does to the BS. I got told when i signed up and the NEC show that membership was over 1000 when i joined so i do not understand why Fred is saying differently. I did not know any of the guys involved in the bickering when i joined but i just couldn't be bothered with it as if detracted away from the great conservation work done by the likes of Pete Reading and seemed to become more of a topic than the fishing. That is where i was lost. But like i have said, i suppose i should thank the Society in that if i had not joined i would not have met the aforementioned guy, who also has got me into some other clubs where i have learnt a lot and made some great friends along the way. Take care pal and hope to see you down the Wye Bw p.s. i did not recieve any pm's but if i had i would have just laughed them off cause its pathetic!

magna barbus on 09/02/2012 13:41:57

Lawrence, are you not confusing Terry's books (where he has maximum space to describe his exploits) with the more compact demands of the weeklies? Simon, no confusion here, in fact you have hit upon the very core essence of my comments, Terry Hearn is a modern accomplished angler and writer that conveys a similar message both in his books and his article's, in fact in a recent Barbel article in the Angling Times (2 or 3 weeks ago) he showed his skill as a developing writer and shared his experience with his day on the river through his writing, this is what is missing because of the influential celeb culture, there is little incentive for modern writers to stick to the facts of what they are trying to say without self promotion or product endorsement. This on the face of it may be of little importance, but I am an advocate of the understanding of the analysis of cause and effect, and I believe that because of the current theme of celeb Anglers and the way it is portrayed in the press, our legacy will be the ultimate demise of Angling. Let us not dwell on celebrity (only a word I know) because the word conjures up negative images in this day and age of the celebrity culture we are cursed with and are surrounded by, the evidence is there before us in our every day life how meaningless, worthless and superficial it all is and the negative effect it has had on the young and impressionable, and I believe we are witnessing this same decline in Angling because of it.

Ron The Hat Clay on 09/02/2012 13:47:42

And contrary to what Ron says, i don't think it matters if people use their real name or not........... i mean is Ron's real middle name "the hat"? I certainly have no objection to those who wish to use their nickname, eg: The Monk, or Chevin, as long as their real name is available through their public profile. As regards my middle "The Hat", name, this was given to me by Graham Marsden. It had nothing to do with myself. I have asked on numerous occasions for "The Hat" to be removed but the powers that be won't remove it. And I can't understand why?

Fred Bonney on 09/02/2012 13:54:20

Graham, Yeah thanks for that and I'm sure there are plenty of decent guys. I think the barbel schools are a good idea. But the one good thing that came out of the society is the chance to meet the one bloke who I owe a lot of thanks to and still fish with today(but his name will remain nameless)! Whilst I felt dismayed about the BS the guys I have been lucky enough to join some cracking clubs , full of top blokes and my fishing has come on leaps and bounds in the last few years ! It is a shame that it has got to the point where i post on here for the first time and be accused of being a fake! And contrary to what Ron says, i don't think it matters if people use their real name or not........... i mean is Ron's real middle name "the hat"? But like yourself i do think it is a shame and although i can understand people wanting to defend their club i find it confusing that they cannot see the damage it does to the BS. I got told when i signed up and the NEC show that membership was over 1000 when i joined so i do not understand why Fred is saying differently. I did not know any of the guys involved in the bickering when i joined but i just couldn't be bothered with it as if detracted away from the great conservation work done by the likes of Pete Reading and seemed to become more of a topic than the fishing. That is where i was lost. But like i have said, i suppose i should thank the Society in that if i had not joined i would not have met the aforementioned guy, who also has got me into some other clubs where i have learnt a lot and made some great friends along the way. Take care pal and hope to see you down the Wye Bw p.s. i did not recieve any pm's but if i had i would have just laughed them off cause its pathetic! Ben, I'm not saying anything different I said it had never been in the thousands which I took to mean many thousands

Lord Paul of Sheffield on 09/02/2012 14:15:41

I certainly have no objection to those who wish to use their nickname, eg: The Monk, or Chevin, as long as their real name is available through their public profile. As regards my middle "The Hat", name, this was given to me by Graham Marsden. It had nothing to do with myself. I have asked on numerous occasions for "The Hat" to be removed but the powers that be won't remove it. And I can't understand why? "The Hat" is rhyming slang

Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC) on 09/02/2012 14:40:37

Ron I think you should change your middle name to, the more contemporary, "The Baseball Cap" Ron The Baseball Cap Clay. That sounds much more modern and down with the kids and gain you more respect from the younger anglers.

Graham Elliott 1 on 09/02/2012 14:51:58

Wicked idea Corky. And wear it Backwards. Style over practicality is so.....................now.

Berty on 09/02/2012 15:33:04

Des is back Ron! The Diary of a Countryman HAHAHAHAHA..........is he still scared of the dark?

Simon K on 09/02/2012 15:40:29

Lawrence, are you not confusing Terry's books (where he has maximum space to describe his exploits) with the more compact demands of the weeklies? Simon, no confusion here, in fact you have hit upon the very core essence of my comments, Terry Hearn is a modern accomplished angler and writer that conveys a similar message both in his books and his article's, in fact in a recent Barbel article in the Angling Times (2 or 3 weeks ago) he showed his skill as a developing writer and shared his experience with his day on the river through his writing, this is what is missing because of the influential celeb culture, there is little incentive for modern writers to stick to the facts of what they are trying to say without self promotion or product endorsement. This on the face of it may be of little importance, but I am an advocate of the understanding of the analysis of cause and effect, and I believe that because of the current theme of celeb Anglers and the way it is portrayed in the press, our legacy will be the ultimate demise of Angling. Let us not dwell on celebrity (only a word I know) because the word conjures up negative images in this day and age of the celebrity culture we are cursed with and are surrounded by, the evidence is there before us in our every day life how meaningless, worthless and superficial it all is and the negative effect it has had on the young and impressionable, and I believe we are witnessing this same decline in Angling because of it. Fair enough Lawrence, you're more up-to-date than I. I haven't looked at any angling press in several years! Terry's a Thinking Angler, as is Martin Bowler (among others, in my opinion) and we certainly need them to shine and inspire us current anglers and aspiring anglers, too. As long as there's a healthy mix of writing styles and angling philosophies for the angling public to get their teeth into, I'm fine with that. The product endorsement side I have no problem with in periodicals since they're "of the moment", I'd not support it in books though, which are for posterity. Let's face it, many of these products are pretty ephemeral and soon obsolete?

magna barbus on 09/02/2012 16:08:07

The product endorsement side I have no problem with in periodicals since they're "of the moment", I'd not support it in books though, which are for posterity. Let's face it, many of these products are pretty ephemeral and soon obsolete? You are right Simon, what was last years rod and reel to have, is this years rubbish and it is with regret that the whole tackle industry survives on this philosophy, though perhaps they are not as blunt and cynical as me, the day that this business model fails is the day they all go bust! But thanks for your comments Simon, thanks to Steve for bringing the subject up for debate and discussion, thanks to all those for their genuine thoughts on the subject, I apologise for using the pseudonym, however it was never my intention to deceive. I will now leave the debate for others.

Judas Priest on 09/02/2012 20:33:05

I would at this juncture, without wishing to re ignite the situation, point out that I am NOT in Tony Roccas gang (?) or in fact anyone elses gang for that matter. I am though the proud owner of a lifetimes ban from a water Tony ran at the time it was imposed, even though I never had/have sought a ticket, never had/have fished there and certainly not even thought of fishing there. So, for some uninformed folks to put me in certain gangs is laughable in the least.

strikerbw on 09/02/2012 22:22:19

Judas, It must be your face!!! Ha ha

Fred Bonney on 09/02/2012 23:51:43

Never entered my mind Phil. ---------- Post added at 23:51 ---------- Previous post was at 23:32 ---------- But, as you know I know who you liase with, your Lordship;)

Lord Paul of Sheffield on 10/02/2012 12:18:23

Never entered my mind Phil. ---------- Post added at 23:51 ---------- Previous post was at 23:32 ---------- But, as you know I know who you liase with, your Lordship;) How do you know Fred- have you been hacking my emails?:D:wh

Fred Bonney on 10/02/2012 13:22:04

You know all to well your Lordship, there is another fake Lord out there in la la land :D ---------- Post added at 13:22 ---------- Previous post was at 13:20 ---------- Oops,that's done it,I've outed him, knowbody would have known, sorry Paul;)

Lord Paul of Sheffield on 10/02/2012 13:28:16

You know all to well your Lordship, there is another fake Lord out there in la la land :D ---------- Post added at 13:22 ---------- Previous post was at 13:20 ---------- Oops,that's done it,I've outed him, knowbody would have known, sorry Paul;) Fred - are you saying you've "outed" me? becarefull they tried that with Jason Donovan and he sued them - I'l lbe contacting my legal team soon:eek::D

Judas Priest on 10/02/2012 18:37:45

Blimey Fred did you get a cse in art cos that is amazing, you are one super slueth. and NO Fred you haven't really got a clue who I fish with ---------- Post added at 18:37 ---------- Previous post was at 18:32 ---------- I have also been asked to point out that Tony Rocca (a) Is NOT in any gang. (b) hasn't posted on here for a couple of years. Now, whether you believe me or him is down to the individuals concerned, but that's the problem with being paranoid, people at every turn all looking the same.

Fred Bonney on 10/02/2012 20:12:46

Too old for CSE Phil, it was the tougher GCE in my day! I must admit you are right, I haven't a clue who you fish with. Thanks for letting me know that I don't know though!:confused::confused:.

Judas Priest on 10/02/2012 21:10:04

I knew you knew that you didn't know

Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC) on 10/02/2012 22:13:51

I know who you are really. You're Black Sabbath. That's why Fred is Paranoid.

john m h on 10/02/2012 22:54:02

Too old for CSE Phil, it was the tougher GCE in my day! Not the School Certificate & Matriculation Examinations then Fred ;)

Fred Bonney on 10/02/2012 23:25:55

No John,just a hard life mate;) I forgot to ask Phil, did you get texted too ?:wh

Judas Priest on 11/02/2012 22:50:08

Fred No Chumley old chap now you are talking real music, Sabbath bloody Sabbath, War Pigs absolute corkers

Fred Bonney on 11/02/2012 23:01:51

I would at this juncture, without wishing to re ignite the situation, point out that I am NOT in Tony Roccas gang (?) or in fact anyone elses gang for that matter. I am though the proud owner of a lifetimes ban from a water Tony ran at the time it was imposed, even though I never had/have sought a ticket, never had/have fished there and certainly not even thought of fishing there. So, for some uninformed folks to put me in certain gangs is laughable in the least. That's Ok Phil, as you mentioned gang, I wondered how you found out he didn't have a gang.... just putting 2 & 2 together and making 5, based on unwanted texts going around at the time!

Lord Paul of Sheffield on 12/02/2012 00:12:19

Just for the record no ones text me My gang is the PasC of which TC is NOT a member I only target stillwater barbel - they fight harder than river barbel Fred knows that Judas P knows that tC doesn't know that I know that JP isn't in a gang and Fred doesn't know that TC knows that JP knew Fred knew that tC didn't know who JP is also Sabbath Bloody Sabbath knew that British Steel wasn't as good an ablum as Sabtarge

Titus on 12/02/2012 09:44:31

I love the thought of 'gangs' of 50/60 something year old anglers roaming the river banks protecting their turf........Jets or Sharks? Even better is the thought of one of the gangs changing their modus operandi and adopting the Dickensian model of recruiting lost and confused youngsters, with Fagin as the amiable gang-master and nasty old Bill Sikes, accompanied by his ever present pooch, running the show with an iron fist.

Paul Boote on 13/02/2012 11:41:34

Or Daniel "Carper" / "Golden Girl" Quilp with his eye on Little Nell in The Old Curiosity Shop (did Charles Dickens know something about how Angling would go...? - the book title rather suggests that he did).

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