My usual shotting pattern, as I said, is the strung out, shirt button style. if the flow is not too fast then I use a no.8 as a dropper about 9" to 1ft from the hook, then a string of no.6's from there. I then adjust according to what happens regarding bites, hooking and damaged baits. More buoyant floats and larger shot are used in heavier flows.
I use a pointed top, wire stemmed stick in slow water and sometimes a round top in faster water, but will switch to Avon type floats or 'Chubbers', or a very nice home made 'Topper' type float that Mark Wintle made for me when fishing faster water / longer trots / further out.
Like Jason, I'll bulk the shot when I need to get through bleak or other small fish, to the bigger ones near or on the bottom.
A couple of weeks ago I fished with Mark on the Thames using a pole, and we caught some nice roach and perch even though the fishing was taking second place to the photography we had to do. For the first time ever, for both of us, we used a lollipop float, and for those who have never seen one they're the most ungainly, unlikely looking floats you could imagine.
But, they were a revelation for holding back in a flow. The large body allowed you to hold it rock steady, or just allow the bait to inch down the swim, very much like stretpegging. I'll be using one again that's for sure, where the swim is suitable.
Before that day, and I'm sure Mark feels the same, we had no idea how efficient they are for their purpose. Another case that proves that keeping an open mind about every fishing technique has got to be best.
They really are excellent if you want to just inch a bait through your swim.
The only little 'niggle' I have found with them, (and I've used them a lot) is to get the exact weight float and shotting for the flow. too little weight or too much and the float simply will not settle upright and you miss a lot of shy 'touch' bites.
When shotting a stick float from the start it usually pays to to use the shirt button style. This enables you to determine at what depth the fish are feeding, because the shirt button style is ideal for catching fish on the drop, you can then alter the shotting to suit.
As Peter says it can pay to have two rods set up, in fact most matchmen on rivers used three float rods, two for stick set ups and one for the waggler when the fish prefer the bait running at them. The only shot I use with a stick is number eights as they are more easily moved especially when using only one rod as is usually the case. They can also be stored on pole winders too which is a bonus when your hand are cold and you drop more shots than you load.
Graham, bang on that about starting off with the shots strung out. Also, I use Preston's Stotz, as well as being easy to use, the fish don't mistake them for hemp, which I use more often than not, and you don't get as many false bites.
Peter, thanks for that info, I'll make sure I use the right one next time.
Graham W, as to using number eights does it not depend on the depth of swim/weight of flow.If you needed a big stick, say 7 no4, you woud be using an awful lot of number 8's?
If using shirt button style, I tend to use heavier shot up the line.If the fish then drop in the water or you want to avoid bleak etc in the upper layers these can be moved down to form a bulk above the lighter shot further down.It gives a little flexibitly if you do not want to carry 2 or 3 rods with you.
A little off thread I know, but if you do use a bigger Avon/Chubber then I would recommend uing an olivette as the bulk weight rather than larger AAA/SSG shot.The ones I use are the Drennan ones which are attached by little silcone sleeves at either end.They do not damage the line and can be moved easily.They are also do not provide as much resitance on the strike.Give them a try.
No. 8's or bigger? When using really big sticks then yes there is a case for using bigger shot but personally I very rarely do unless my fingers are that cold I'm having trouble getting the shots on. It is always good policy to have a shot directly under the float once you have established the depth for obvious reasons and you can get away with a bigger shot for this.
Instead of using bigger shot group the No. 8 shot in two's or three's fining down the nearer you get to the hook. You have to be careful you don't unbalance the stick in using heavy shot at the top causing the lighter shot to tangle up when casting. As I said its much more convenient to store your rigs on pole winders then you can change line at home if it shows signs of wear.
I do understand about dropping shot because the older I've got the more difficult it is to use small shot without dropping them, banana fingers I call it, this is made worse with the cold or on windy banks.
Are those Shotz in the No. 8 size made of lead Graham and do they make a No. 10, I've almost been tempted to use them but wasn't sure if they were lead or not, they certainly look easier to handle than the conventional round shot?
I think a lot depends on the river you are fishing and certainly the likes of John Wilson(no disrepect) would fail miserably if he adopted the shotting patterns of the southern rivers on the likes of the Idle or Don.You just cannot get away with swan shot and BBs on these rivers and i have no doubt John would take advice before tackling them. On fine rivers like the Idle i stay clear of larger shot and if pos will use only No8s ans 10s with a No12 dropper. Why use No8s when a No6 will do you may ask,well when you strike there is less resistance from smaller shot and your rig should come back in a line rather than the hooklength kicking out wich results in less fish being hooked. I prefer groups of No8 shot strung out shirt button fashion but in ever degreasing groups of say sets of four then a couple of sets of three until you get nearer the hooklength finishing with a couple of twos. Its fiddly and a pain i know especially if your eyesights not too good so i use a Dinsmore Auto Shotter. Not saying this method is good for you but it works on my local rivers and if you can keep your slits all in line all the better. Just to show the other side of the coin my shotting pattern on both the Swale and Derwent when chub fishing is a very crude get it down fast 6 No 1s and a size 6 dropper and on the Swale 5lb direct. One tip i would give when into a shoal of roach or dace is once hooked dip your rod tip under the water when reeling in because it removes them from the shoal much quicker. And thats enough of me rambling on
I nearly always fish with a heavier type wire stemmed stick float or chubber and an olivette with no dropper. I then experiment with the distance from the hook to the olivette from 4" to 18" as I hold the float back slightly allowing the bait to travel ahead 'wafting'. I find that olivettes are kinder to the line, easier to move and do not fall off when a decent fish is caught. In comparison my mate always fishes shirt button style and to be honest there is rarely a session when one method outfishes the other.
John, I didn't realise there were "Southern" shotting patterns! I don't think there are but there are horses for courses. Some rivers I fish are closely comparable to the Idle and Don, rivers like the Bristol Avon, Warwickshire Avon, upper Thames and Stour - steady water of various depths including deep water - and these respond to the finesse approach especially if heavily fished. Evesham was one of the worst, I've fished sticks with over 30 shot, none bigger than no 9 with size 23 Mustad 90340 and double maggots to achieve the over-shotted presentation that I needed on a high river. But conversely waters like the Hants Avon is comparable to waters like the Swale, Wye and plenty of others.
Versatility is surely the key, that and having an open mind. Rigs like the Bristol Avon crowquill Avon style has done well on the Don and it is useful; it can beat a wonderfully delicate stick rig hands down on its day yet at other times be too crude. This why when I used to match fish the Bristol Avon it was vital to set up a lot of rods and rigs so that whatever the presentation needed turned out to be I had it covered, and it was often the case that switching rigs/presentation would keep the fish coming, the key to success in matches.
Where I want to learn a lot more this winter is around mastering the pole a great deal more, and that includes the 'lollipop'. I had seen it in use at Evesham and on the Stour, and the rig used by Graham and myself was spot on for the conditions that day on the Thames.
Graham W, I bought stotz in a 4 pack of sizes 8,9,10,11. I think they are all lead, they're all soft anyway. I find it's easier if you put them on with styl pliers as they're still bloomin small. Damn good though.
I really cannot remember a thread that I have enjoyed reading so much in the years I've been on FM.
The variety of ideas, patterns and comment is awe inspiring.
Now, I've been very fortunate in watching Nigel, Mark and Ron fish the stickfloat over the past few years and it is so very gratifying to see them here freely sharing their methods and experiences.
Mark, thanks for reminding me that one of the best hooks I ever used was the Mustad 9340's and that they indeed came in odd numbered sizes. I only used it for feeder fishing, but often wondered about using the 90340 for stickfloats/wagglers.
I think it was John Dean who preferred the cone tipped stickfloat over the, then, domed tip. I have to say that I really do like the cone tipped floats whenever I can find them.
I have to say that I make up my stick float rigs at home with less chance of cold fingers and use pole float winders, or better still old fashioned wooden ones when I can get them.
And John is so right when he mentions about lining up your shot on the line, maybe it is pure pedantics, but I think it is a boost to confidence, and at the end of he day, is that not what it is all about?
One thing I remember noticing in France in a match, years ago, and that was Jean Desque who had his shotting pattern "upside down" that is to say that he had his bulk shot inverted with the lightest shot immediately below the float and the heaviest shot down the line. That said, his dropper shots, miniscule size 12's or 13's down on his hook length. his thinking was that this pattern cast a lot easier, fewer tanlges and therefore more time with the hook in the water.
Now, as a final comment, is there anyone who has contributed, Nigel excepted, who is under 50 years of age?
In a river match I'd set-up two stickfloat rods and two waggler rods in case the wind changes.
Both sets of rods would be set-up for: 1) the full depth, and then 2) for about 2/3rds depth.
When you only have 4 to 5 hours in a match (or a pleasure session?) then time wasted moving shot around, and floats, is time with your hook in the air, and you catch nowt with a hook that is not in the water.
Peter, when making up a stickfloat rig at home, how would you attach it in situ? Loop to loop?
I've moved more and more to using lots of no 8 in recent times and grouping them in greater numbers further up the rig, but I do find I am constantly loosing shot from the rig whilst in use.
I'm interested in what shot people rate for staying on, particularly in the small sizes. I've not come across these shotz.
Stotz shot are truly brilliant and to my mind one of the best innovations in shot ever. Mind you Preston are full of good ideas - good company that.
They are only available in small sizes of course. I wish they would make them in 6s and 8s.
Graham's comment about Stotz not being taken for hemp is very valid. I was fishing the Old Course of the Nene recently using hemp and started to get bite after bite which I "fresh-aired"
I suddenly thought!
I changed the shot to Stotz and although I didn't get as many bites, I started hitting the fish. Nice roach too.
And now the Lollipop Float.
I discovered this thing some 6 years ago. When I first saw it I thought it looked like a gimmick. But always keeping an open mind I bought one and tried it for laying on and stret pegging on the Idle.
It certainly is no gimmick. John Ledger has seen it in action and so has Yoggy on the King's Drain near Whittlesey.
I often like laying on on rivers like the Trent and the Idle. It often produces the bigger roach. Previously, I used to use a fair sized stick float for this, but in a laying on situation, such a float is not really suitable. They jump all over the place in the current and are not sensitive enough.
The Lolly float holds dead still in the current of course and is extremely sensitive. You have to get your shotting right though. I use bulk shot or an olivette about 18 inches fron the hook. Then about 3 more shot decending in size until I have a No 8 about 6 inches from the hook. For laying on you fish about a foot to 18 inches over depth.
Bites on the Lolly are very positive indeed and are much easier to hit than using the stick or a quiver tip.
One of the forerunners to the lolly was the vaned floats Peter Drennan used to make in the 60s. In fact it was one of these, including two other types that won him a float making competition in Angling Times and set him on the road to being one of the most successful tackle companies of all time.
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