I used to use pole winders all the time with my stick float rigs on.
Like John says if you know the area or stretch of river you will be fishing you will have a good idea of the depth before venturing out. I'm a little lazy these days though and usualy knock a couple up the evening before fishing.
I must say I look at John with envy when he gets his boxes out with all the pre tied rigs. I always say I will knock some up and never do.
Interesting about the loose feed.
We talk about stick float shotting patterns and missing bites when it could all be down to how much and often we feed.
What I always did to my maggots before fishing was give them a good covering of tumeric. This was not only supposed to flavour the maggots and make them more appealing to roach, but also degrease them and make them sink faster.
Whether this is true or not I don't know, but it was a good confidence trick.

Graham mentioned about shelled casters at the start of this thread.
What I do when this is happening is either put a lighter tell tale shot on (nearest the hook) or place it futher up the line so the fish feels less resistance. This is my opinion though because somebody else could say put a heavier tell tale on or push it nearer the hook to make the bite show up more positive and earlier.
It pays to keep trying different things if you are unhappy with the bites you're getting / missing ect.
Sometimes though you have to say the fish can be a bit smart for us.
I watched a very large roach engulf my friends trotted caster from the vantage point of a bridge and watched as it drifted downstream under the float for about 3 seconds until it flared it's gills and spat it out.
The result was a crushed caster and not a tremble on the float.

A variant I use when I know the fish are feeding on bottom is to take an 'inverted pear' pole float rated at about 2 to 3 grams with a long, fairly thick bristle and rig it as a stickfloat.
Use an olivette or bulk shot (nearly all of the total weight required) and postion it 6" to 8" off the bottom with three or four no. 10 shot strung down a tail of about 2 to 3 feet in length. I gear this with a 17ft rod normally and hold back so the bait is static. When a bite develops it's very deliberate and the long bristle slides under quite slowly. You can always pick up and 'stret' through the swim to follow the feed.

Lark, I have used the same tactic for mullet fishing this year and it helped magnify some very tentative bites.

Michael, it wasn't a certain bridge by a certain very nice house on the Avon was it?f it was Ithink those roach have had everything chucked at them over the years.

No Nigel though I did have the pleasure of catching a 2lb+ roach in the same swim after watching it take my trotted tare.
It's another bridge on the River Kennet. It was not short of being a 3 (I think)
I find it strange that fish in one river (Hants Avon) can be incredibly nervous, more so than chub, yet on the Kennet I'm confident that if I fish light enough and get my bait to behave naturally I will catch the larger roach.

You could have told your friend he had bite though Michael;-)

The different behaviour is probably down to angling pressure?

I did Nigel, but I didn't want to shout to loud!
I think the particular swim on the Kennet gets a lot of attention though it's fly only until the 1st of October.

Graham (M), Going back to your opening observation on this thread - should you have opted at some time for a strung-out shotting pattern and would it have been more effective? They key to the session is that you were getting bites every run through and missing occasionally. It's been mentioned throughout this fascinating thread that roach and dace, when fed effectively, will usually come up in the water. By using the bulk shot set-up you were probably eliminating a large proportion of your bite percentage rate by going through the top half of the water too quickly. With bite proliferation as you described I may have gone to a lighter float with strung-out shot (casting distance permitting). But the truth is... Catching 18lb in 3 hours, I think I would have been enjoying myself too much to give a toss!

on the subject of missing, or rather not seeing bites, its surprising how far a fish can take a bait without it registering on the float.

Throughout this year one of the lads at work has been messing about in our lunch break on the upper Don that runs past our factory. This strecth is about four to five feet deep and the water is very clear and because he is fishing from a wall a good 10/12 feet above the water we are looking straight down and can see the maggot right down to the bottom.

Very often we can see it being pushed around by small fish and it will go off line a good couple of feet and nothing happens to the float.

Had a phone call from Mick Lomas the other night and Mick is one of the best anglers in our neck of the woods and a Trent legend.
Mick who recently caught a roach of 3lb was telling me about his big roach catches on the tidal with fish going to 1lb 8oz in recent weeks.
Mick said "I dont want to upset you John but i was fishing really crude with really big heavy floats"
Puts my theory out of the window does that

He also had ten barbel on loosing four but landing six on the float tackle 17ft rod biggest over 8lb

Beecy - while I remember. I dropped into Gick Cleggs last week and he was out of most of the stickfloat sizes I needed in the Britannia range. Luckily he had them in the Mavers - they are better quality if anything. Cheers

the problem being john, i think you learned your stick float fishing in the days of trent fish being hammered 3 days per week in matches.

those fish died of old age years ago and most of the ones there haven't seen anything other than the odd carbeller, so they don't flee at the sight of crude float rigs, they haven't learned to associate them with danger.

Best thread for a long time. good article in this months Southern angler about lollipop floats

http://cralusso.com/angol/index.html

John,

I am one of those who has never used pole winders for my float rigs.....i have never felt comfortable with a joining knot in fine line....especially the loop to loop method, i always imagine it will catch somewhere!
I know some superb anglers do not have problems with it so i may give it a go..........my eyesight ain't what it was now i'm in my 40's ish ;) and it may be easier done at home.....do those pole float shotting tools hold a stick float?

I think I took the last of Dick's floats Lark.

I know you did... ya bugger!

do those pole float shotting tools hold a stick float?

if you are careful yes they will.

If your float won't fit into the recess, grip a pin in it and put a float rubber on the bottom of your float and slide the pin under the rubber.

Ron it would appear that your love for harrison rods, can actually be combined with a spliced tip and a rod of up to 20 feet.

It looks like they will do their match rod range in 13 15 17 and 20 footers all of which can be made to include a spliced tip.

so that should give you another way of spending a little of your vast fortune.

and for comparison the daiwa spliced tip rod is around the 200 quid mark.