 I have once dabbled with spade end hooks (at Clattercote last year, I thought it might give me an edge) however I lost two fish on them due to my knots apparently being rubbish. My question is do they really offer any advantage that outweighs the horrendously difficult whipping/knotting process? The type of fishing I do is mostly for chub, barbel, bream and any other omnivorous fish usually with size 10, 12 or 14 hooks and hair rigged or banded baits. Occasionally however I do get the maggot feeder out or a float and target smaller or shy biting fish and this really the type of situation where I wonder if I could be fishing more productively with spade ends. What are your thoughts?
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 Paul, There's no wondering about it; for smaller hooks the improved presentation from spade end hooks tied well is outstanding. I tie hooks as big as 10 using the spade-end knot.
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 i think spade end hooks are better for presentation, but also paul like you i'm pretty crap at tieing them , so why not do what i do buy them ready tied. because of my eyesight i have big probs with tieing little hooks so now buy hooks to nylon.And must say i do catch a lot more fish.
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 Spade end hooks especially in the smaller sizes are far superior in the smaller sizes, say 16 and under. The whipping knot tied by hand is srong, neat, and reliable enough in a size 18 for chub. anything over a 14 and I would personally use an eyed hook.
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 Matchman hook tyer makes knots a doddle---------
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 Paul, why give up tying your own because you havn't learned to tie them properly, wouldn't it be far simpler to learn how to tie them, after all it isn't exactly rocket science? If, like me now, your fingers aren't nimble enough to do it by hand then learn how to use a hook tyer which is so simple a women could do it. Instead of watching Corrie of a night just sit with some old line and practice tying your hooks, you may surprise yourself when you discover how easy it is, in fact all knot tying should be practiced until you are 100% confident in your knots because knots are the weakest link in your set up.
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 I too have tried a hook tier - I'm just as rubbish as it as with hand - I now use the pretied -
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Never tried the Drennan tyer, but the Matchman one is easy to use and very reliable, I have total confidence in the knot, as Graham says, if your fingers aren't as nimble, its worth a look-----
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Tom - it's the Matchman I can't use
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if i make a load of hooklenghts at home i use a hook tier but on the banksidee my eyesite and fingers are so rotten i use hooks to nylon.
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That suprises me Paul, I can do a knot probably in 30 seconds its that easy, but I suppose it depends what you're used to------------
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Tom The instruction were in french when I bought the thing - since printed English version of FM - still can't make a neat job of it with size 12 hooks and size 18 - forget it
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o be fair, it did take me quite a few attempts before I got the hang of it, but once you've got it, its really quick. The only downside is that you're never going to get quite the same length each time with your hooklength so may have to re-plumb,which is a bit of a nuisance but although I normally use hooks to nylon for that reason( laziness) , if I needed to, would be quite happy using it
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Tom - it's must just be me - I've spent a few hours trying the thing - I think - ah got it now then the hok length looks all crimped and the presentation looks poor - in the bin it goes - I can tie the bigger size hooks but like I said the presentation is poor.
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 Tom - it's must just be me - I've spent a few hours trying the thing - I think - ah got it now then the hok length looks all crimped and the presentation looks poor - in the bin it goes - I can tie the bigger size hooks but like I said the presentation is poor. Stupid question I know M'lud but are you getting one of your underlings to moisten the line before you pull the Knot tight? Don't forget to have the line coming off the bend side of the hook.
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 I like the knotless knot and palomar for eyed hooks and standard matchman tied know for my spade end. If im completely honest the spade hooks are always presented better, I much prefer these especially on small hooks
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Its probably crimping because you are winding the turns on too tightly you only need to keep the line taut enough that the turns don't come off and don't pull the line through too quickly as this will cause friction and also give you a twirly above the knot. Practice is all that is needed like I said and its so so simple.
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I agree Steve, presentation is very good once you've got the knack----
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Looks like the knot tier is coming out tonight for another attemp - swear box will be ful lagain
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