Had a conversation with a couple of anglers today, both have been involved in fishing for a few years ''Speci Types''. The discussion eventually came round to pike-whereupon the elder of the two said ''I wouldn't mind giving lures a try, but I'd like to catch some of the better fish, and lures only seem to catch the small un's. ''God here we go again''. The same old drivel .But rather than debate the issue I produced a couple of photo albums and watched as they scanned every page.

    On leaving I asked, do you still hold the same view about lure fishing.

            Well does anyone still believe it !

But angling is like that Derek, full of pre-concieved ideas.

It's the same mistaken attitude you get with anglers who say that fishing with an artificial fly for trout is not as effective as putting a maggot or a worm on the hook. 

Lets' face it the majority of lure angler's chances of catching a big fish is shown by the size of their landing nets.

The size of pike I catch on lures are smaller than deadbait caught pike, but I catch more of them in a session.   I've caught pike up to 15lb on lures, yet on deads I've, had over the years, about ten fish in the range 15lb to 23.5lbs.

Perhaps if I used large jerkbaits I'd catch bigger pike.  Having seen the size of hooks on some of the bigger jerkbaits, I believe these lures and their hooks are harmful to pike, especially smaller ones.  

i've never had anything above a mid to late double on lures, this includes from the waters where i've caught big 20's and the odd 30.

so in my experience they don't produce fish which are as large from a water, especially if they're fished against deads.

Hi Derek

I have to confession my ignorance here, and I`m really more a carp angler than a pike angler, but I have spent many years pike fishing my youth, mainly though on the canals and local lancashire reservoirs, both live, dead and lure fishing, my largest fish in these waters have mainly come to livebaits and I did for a number of years hold the belief that the larger fish came from live and deadbaiting, I should really have known better as I was the first manchester PAC branch sec back in ca 1977 and ihave the opportunity to mix with some all out pike anglers.  I think the think with lure fishing though Derek, is it has to be in the right hands, sorry have to go a client has just arrived, i`ll continue this post later

    Keith, your take on the ''average'' size of pike taken by you on lures is at complete odds with my own. Not only do I catch more on lures than I ever did on deads-but a satisfactory amount of big un's too.

    Also people often forget when talking ''lures v.s. deads'' the rod factor. Most bait fishermen adopt a three rod policy as ''de rigeur'' at least so my observations show, hardly a level playing field eh?

    With regards to hooks and damage I'm inclined to concede their is an issue, which is why making your own lures makes complete sense-this allows you to determine weighting/balance in order to utilize hook sizes that experience shows minimal damage,but satisfactory hooking ratios.

    I hesitate to go into rod hours simply because I too am heartily sick of that old chestnut!!    thanks for the imput mate.

 Jason, I have no doubt you've had your share of biggies mate,and I have no hesitation in admitting ''some waters'' do not respond to lures, at least not in any significent way. Note, I say ''some''. Speaking from my own experience and that of close friends from both camps-lure/baits. I still maintain overall,on a wide variety of waters, lures will turn up some of the bigger fish, allowing that all factors are given due consideration.

      I won't repeat them here, go to my earlier post (level field).   But thanks.

  Nick, you are very perceptive, I was just thinking of the time when a certain Mr Bolger invited me over the hill to demonstrate my lures and approach. I wasn't to know it at the time Nick, but it turned out to be ''two''hard graft waters (very friendly eh). Anyway the laugh was on the Manchester lads when we left- along with bulging and orders for lures. That must be fifteen years ago.

    I'll give you a demo anytime Nick- but only if you promise to play me the solo from   ''TELEGRAPH ROAD'' the live from Basle version-not a strat a Paul Reed Smith? 

Derek has a Fender in his house mate.

  It's not mine mate, my old strat went about ten years ago. The one you saw Ron belongs to my grandson Matt, he's doing good too.I made him a similar offer to Monk-a hundred quid if he can play me the solo from Telegraph Road by Christmas.

     Monk, how's Mr Bolger doing I havn't heard or spoken to him for years.

  Back to the thread- if the bait lads were not so defensive about their chosen method, perhaps they'd recognise it is not a level playing field- I propose Monk as the new ''Oracle''.

Think about it, you can't really compare dead baiting with the efficient use of artificial lures.

The artificial lure man gets a lot more options in terms of confronting pike, including big ones with a lure that the pike may or may not take. Often its a case of presenting the right lure at the right depth and working it the right way.

For myself I would wager any amount of money that anglers with the competance of DG will outfish a dead bait angler over say a 3 hour period with the employment of one rod. And catch the bigger fish too.  

Hi Derek,

Do you still make your own lures?

I have a couple you made, 1 is a copy of the Sniper god knows what the other one is.  Never caught on either of them However the paint is cracking so they at least look used

Colin 

  Hi Colin,   Good to hear from you, our paths have crossed many moons ago, you may not recall?. I can only vaguely remember myself. No I don't make lures anymore mate, not for some time (arthritis in hands).

     If I remember Barrie had some of the last Snipers I made-he was using them for Nile Perch, he did well on them if I remember. Perhaps you have one of his? the other one you may have might be a ''Cisco'', they were highly successful when I used to come down your neck of the woods. Got me a big Zander off the Delph on one, crikey Colin they must be twenty years old those lures.

     I still have enough lures to last me several lifetimes fortunately ''and I still occasionally tinker''.

     So good to hear from you I hope you're keeping well.

Derek,

No chance they came from Barrie, he always shut the box when either myself or Tim Cole [RIP] were around.  Tim was the best lure scrounger I have ever seen, he was so good I only went out with one lure so he couldn't pinch anymore of mine.  He was busy emptying Hugh Reynold's lure collection when he was taken ill.  Hugh got them all back plus mine in Tim's will

Definitely bought them from you at a PAC do I'm sure.  Yes a Cisco it dives much deeper than the Sniper.  At least 20 years is probably right.

I can't complain too much about my health, I've had my problems and am following the family trait of diabetes at least all the prescriptions are now free.

Sorry to hear your hands are not so good, it must be frustrating.  I was hoping you were still in production so I could send these lures back under warranty

Colin 

As you know Derek,I`ve just switched over to using big lures virtually all the time.

I`m definately a big lure man now!!!!