If there is any problem with showing a photograph then I for one would rather not see one and put Derek or anyone else  to any trouble.  I have learnt enough from this thread to keep me happy for a long time to come.

But, I must ask this:  are they so radically different in the way they LOOK from other lures either shop bought or made by others that a picture would be so revealing of their secrets? And have the anglers over the years to whom Derek has been so generous with his knowledge - and lures by the sound of it - kept their new found knowledge totally to themselves?

Congrats with the pike Andy, you must have been chuffed to bits.

I'm in over my head with this Andy, if the "Stonker" is as good as I think it is then I wouldn't put the pics up, until I had a copyright on it.  I haven't got a clue what it looks like?  It's probably big though!  It would seem that those in the know have kept quiet and fair play to them for that.

Andy and Steve, it might surprise you to know that I have been down that particular road of having my lures copied several times over the years. Sometimes from the most unexpected sources, it would raise a few eyebrows on here were I to name names. Suffice it to say nothing in angling surprises me these days. That is not to say it doesn't hurt, it does, but nothing I can do or say will make the slightest difference. I would have been content to be acknowledged,''given credit if you will'' but even that was denied. So yes I do understand your qualms, and thankyou for your concern.

      As re the Stonker, yes those who tried them, at least in the majority kept hush. Difficult to determine with hindsight if that was out of respect for me or possibly an ego thing. However more recently my mate Greg over in Ireland took possession of a couple over a week ago, and I know he's given them a trial. If you're reading this Greg how about giving your initial impressions of the lure, how you found it.I'm sure members would be interested.

derek.after recieving the stonkers from yourself.i had to go and try them.i have to say that the action of these lures is incredible they have a wiggle that would put marlin monroes bum to shame first class.what i liked about them was that they fish just on the hang.they sink just lovely.and they arnt very heavy.plus being made of wood will last forever.it is a lure that you know will catch as soon as you fish with it.my first time fishing it i had lots of follows on it but fish just werent taking.i will give them a good go tommorow on the river.just to add this lure has the most unuasal action when you tap the rod the lure has a lovely left to right swaying action.

This business of false luminaries "standing on the shoulders of giants", is more common than people imagine and it's not confined to pike fishing. Throughout angling history, from Isaak Walton even, unscrupulous fame seekers have stamped on modest little men, little unknown characters who have done all the innovation, all the groundwork.

There are those that do this all the time, right now in fact.

One of the worst cases in recent years was that of T.C. Ivens who wrote the "groundbreaking" book - Stillwater Fly Fishing.

Ivens got all his info from Cyril Inwood, including the fly patterns. But did he ever mention Cyril in his book?

Not a damn!

I could go on and mention some of the top names of today, but I won't for obvious reasons.    

Point taken Ron and Derek. Now  lets get back to the pike!  And thanks Steve, I am indeed chuffed!

    I t pays to remember that many anglers are constantly on the look out for something to give themselves the ''edge''. Now that may be the edge over the fish or even the edge over fellow anglers. And before we throw our hands up in horror, thinking selfish barstewards, is that really such an unscrupulous outlook. There are many who have thought deeply about the different facets of the sport, bait, tackle, rigs, some of who have contributed greatly to the pool of angling knowledge. It is not unreasonable for them to wish to have the benefits of any breakthrough/discovery to themselves for a while, that may be their only reward, a quite logical outlook by any standard.                    When however such discoveries reach the wider public domain, and the demand for said discovery becomes great. Then arrives the more unpleasant side of angling who will promote, what company will mass produce, who will lay claim to the concept! Rarely is it the originator, so yes Ron, you do have a valid point, though it may not be convenient for some to listen.

      Right Andy back to the pike, have you considered the use of very slow rise baits. We've talked much about slow sink, but slow rising baits are worthy of more attention. Some time ago Ron used one to great effect, but i'll let Ron recount that story, over to you Ron.

This particular plug, made by Derek about 8 inches long with a flexible rubber tail, works well in shallow clear water. Crank it in and it sinks slowly, giving the tail a wiggle. Stop cranking and it wiggles slowly back to the surface.

It reminds me of one of my most successful bass crankbaits made by Bagley of the USA, the colour is the same too, red, black and chartreuse.

We walked up the canal casting hither and thither in the look out for hunting pike. I was getting the odd follow to my hot orange spinner bait and 10 inch Creek Chub Pikey. Derek wasn't getting anything, but this is often the way of things.

So we sat for a while and discussed the prospects. There were obviously pike around judging by the follows. I decided to change my lure for a Gibson concocted plug as previously described. First cast and I was taken in an almighty swirl as I let the plug rise back to the surface, but the pike, obviously a good one, got off.

No time was to be lost and I cast out again and collared it this time, again as the lure rose back to the surface.

Out again and bang, I repeated the action, the pike again taking the lure as it rose back to the surface.

All in all a most productive 30 minutes, 4 nice fish, 3 doubles and one lost.

I have since caught good pike from the River Idle with this lure. This thing is dynamite and proves the efficacy of Derek's lures. 

I believe that Derek's lures are some of the best in the world.

There is a very good reason for this. Derek's skill in lure making is due to his vast "on the bank" experience at catching pike and working out exactly what the pike want in terms of the design of the lure and the way it is fished.

It's the same thing with artificial flies. I have far more confidence in flies I tie myself compared with shop bought flies, no matter who the fly tier is.

I'm getting like that with pike lures too, only in this case it is lures that Derek makes. 

I can vouch for the quality and effectiveness of Derek's lures, when I first saw them they were bigger than anything else I had previously seen and had the sink rate that mass produced lures lacked, very slow to be exact.

There are lures available these days that are jointed but they still don't know what slow really is and remember there was nothing like these over a decade ago, it was groundbreaking stuff to say the least.

Nothing more satisfying than to catch a pike on a lure you have conceived and concocted your self.

I remember seeing some fishing programme where dave kelbrick briefly showed how he made his lures/jerk baits i think they were??? I wonder how many of fox`s lures were copies of his designs or the other way around??? They all looked very familiar.

Ground breaking stuff for Britain Dave, but the major lure suppliers will still not take heed.

I am told that the sales manager of company "F" will not supply slow sinking lures because not enough of them will be lost and as a result, their business will suffer - allegedley!

Sure, company "F" will cite examples of where their lures are successful - such as the depths of trout reservoirs when fishing from a boat. But not every pike man wants, nor has the where-with-all, to fish large trout reservoirs for pike. Make no mistake the most common water open to your average piker is his local canal, river or fenland drain, waters where fast sinking lures are a waste of time.

And then there is the enormous price charged for some of the plastic swimbaits such as Castaics for example. A figure of £18 for a lure that can be totally trashed by a jack (it's happened to me), is an obscenity!

Make no mistake, lure fishing for pike could be on the verge of an upswing. The lure suppliers seem to want to stifle it however by marking up their wares an astronomical amount. Anglers in the USA just wouldn't tolerate it. 

Why should we tolerate it here?

    Nick, more than you would think mate. Dave used to visit with me years ago and watch me in my workshop lure making. So a bit of both if you take my drift, and we are still mates!!

    But you're right Nick, catching on something of your own making is very special and fulfilling. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Good show Greg.

Yet another convert.

Good on you Greg, when the floods go down I am planning to go to the levels for a day with no baits and cover as much water as I can.

That will be a first for me too.