I had a hook tier, but found it allways kinked the line about 1cm from the hook. So I learnt how to tie the same knot by hand when I was about 12 and found it's like riding a bike.

Put the time in and you'll get it sorted. I can tie a size 24.

Mind you I do have relatively small hands for a chap hung like a donkey.

Matt Corker wrote (see)

I had a hook tier, but found it allways kinked the line about 1cm from the hook. So I learnt how to tie the same knot by hand when I was about 12 and found it's like riding a bike.

Put the time in and you'll get it sorted. I can tie a size 24.

Mind you I do have relatively small hands for a chap hung like a donkey.

Are you sure that you don't "appear" to be hung like  Donkey just because you have small hands?  Have you been fooling yourself?

Thanks everyone so far.

I suspected people would think it was worth it, especially in smaller hook sizes.

I initially tried tying by hand but gave that up when I realised I'd need another three hands in addition to my two. I really could not see how it was possible to do by hand. It was like trying to tie a knotless knot backwards (without being able to pass the mainline end of the hooklink through the hook eye) and just seems impossible.

I accept that some people can tie by hand but I genuinely cannot see how it is physically possible even on a fairly large hook never mind 20s or smaller.

I then bought a hook-tier which seemed so much easier but the first two I used parted at Clattercote leaving me completely disillusioned with them.

Hi Paul

Sorry, I forgot what this thread was initially about and went off a bit.

I tie my spades slightly different to the knot usually shown.

Hold the hook bend in your left hand, spade pointing right.

Form a loop in the end of the line and hold it with the hook, loop sticking past the bend.

Keep slight tension on the line by holding the spool between your knees and pulling the hook.line against it.

Now here's the different bit.

Whip the tag end round the shank TOWARDS the spade using your right hand, trapping the turns against the shank with your left thumb and forefinger as you go.

Then pass the hook to your right hand and grip teh hook and whippings and pass the tag end through the loop. Pull the hook against the tensioned line (spool still in knees) to reduce the loop and trap the tag end. Do not fully tighten.

Slide the knot upto the spade and then tighten before trimming the tag with a razor blade.

If you get all that and teh try it and it works then my work here is done!

Paul, it's absolutely worth learning to tie the knots for spade end hooks.  I reckon I can tie up an 18 spade end quicker than an eyed hook.  It does take practice but once learned it's pice of cake.  As was said previously, the presentation is much better.  It'll make a huge difference in roach fishing, for instance.

Have a look at this thread http://www.fishingmagic.com/forum/forummessages/mps/utn/19255/v/9/cp/1/

I can do them even quicker than Matt.

......mind you they are packet pre-tied

As endorsed above and very obvious, but its so important to wet the line before you tighten, this is often the difference between having a slight kink and a (near) perfect knot.

Matt and Matt's descriptions sound much easier than the knot I was wrestling with last year.

I can't remember exactly what it was but it was suggested in the packet of hooks. I think I lost my temper with them which is very unlike me (ahem).

Paul, you showed me after the Clattercote match how to use my hook-tier as I recall and it looked so easy yet I still couldn't trust myself to use it again and risk losing another fish.

I've still got the packet of hooks mind so I'll have a crack at that knot as soon as possible.

Appreciate all the responses.

When people talk about better presentation what do you mean exactly? It's obvious that a spade end doesn't have the bulk of an eye at the top of the shank but with a bait mounted on the hook how does this affect how the bait behaves or appears to a fish?

Are there other differences/advantages that I don't understand?

Paul,

The advantage in presentation is losing the bulk of the eye and knot, getting access to a much wider range of hook patterns, and losing the tendency of the knot to swivel on the eye. Many years ago hooks were silk whipped without an eye or spade, and Colin Dyson attempted a revival of this in the 1980s but there is much more work to attach hooks this way. He did reckoned on even better presentation and greater hooking power as the spade/eye could not impede the hook penetration.

Just to muddy the water, the 'hook in loop' method goes against just about everything we believe in yet works very well once you get your head around it. H-I-L is a small eyed hook in a 2" loop with the dropper shot raight at the top of the loop, and used for pole fishing. The hook is free to swivel any which way but it works very well.

Mark Wintle (ACA) wrote (see)

Just to muddy the water, the 'hook in loop' method goes against just about everything we believe in yet works very well once you get your head around it. H-I-L is a small eyed hook in a 2" loop with the dropper shot raight at the top of the loop, and used for pole fishing. The hook is free to swivel any which way but it works very well.

 I have a few theories on the hook in the loop method, but Mark why do you think the hook in the loop method works so well

For those who havent tried it, it does work 

Stevie

I have to say I'm one of those who has seen it in the angling press and not had the courage to try it.