 Good point Steve, and I think most on here are aware by now I generally fish clear water conditions,(sight fishing). But, most top water fishing is done at what I call optimum conditions. That is late in the day or when the conditions are overcast, and hopefully a light drizzle, and calm water. These are the conditions that have me buzzing to be on the water with surface lures. And let me say in all humility, my success rate has been high over the years. Perhaps I have inadvertantly put another piece in the jigsaw, black lures fit in perfectly under the conditions I prefer. Conditions I don't like for top water, surprise, surprise, are bright sun and midday fishing.
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 Derek, I've only used surface lures on one water so far so don't have a wealth of experiance. Although I liked it the complete opposite, a good sun. I found my results on the surface much better then in the sun as opposed to either when the light started to fade or it was reasonably cloudy.
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Cheers for the advice re painting by the way. I've almost finished painting it so will need to get some laquer now. I'll post a picture of it when its finished.
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Christian, as time goes on you'll discover when the chances are best, which water, what conditions, even which lure for which water.As your catch rates increase you will develop a feel for choice. It's a wonderfull journey of discovery mate, embrace it, and enjoy.
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derek.just to ask a couple of questions i know you like canal piking.this time of year after a few frosts do you still use big lures on shallow canals.i know some sections are deep where locks are but overall fairly shallow.have you ever come across a situtation where the 10 inch lures where to big for the situtation.somtimes i feel that the lures are to big.maybe its just getting used to them.
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Greg, I can't think of a situation where I have questioned the use of bigger lures, even on the shallower venues. When I ''first'' started to lean towards the larger lures, I have to be honest there were times when I had reservations, especially after the mates had ridden me hard. But it didn't last long, it's only success that encourages you to persist,and, when others stop taking the mick, and pay closer attention. That only serves to reinforce your beliefs. So I guess it's just a confidence thing, it just grows with each triumph! Even small jacks take the biggest lures.
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 As a result of this highly inspiring thread I have decided to make some larger spinnerbaits to use with my heavier spinning rod. I have a couple of questions I was hoping you guys could answer: 1. What is the best paint for the lead part? Would you use car paint spray cans or modelling paints? I am planning to use a white undercoat to ensure the colours really stand out. Have you found that the paint is sufficient or do you varnish as well? 2. I'm planning to go for high contrast - any fav colours? On one post I'm sure Ron mentioned orange and I think Derek you mentioned chartreuse - but it's a lot of posts to reread! 3. One larger blade or two smaller? Does it make any difference? 4. With stingers do you match the hook size of the main spinnerbait or would you go smaller perhaps? 5. When people talk about "big" spinnerbaits, how long are we talking about? Thanks for your help here - my 8 year old son is very excited about making his own lures - dad's pretty keen too! Steve
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Steve, a good decision mate, the S.B. is a cracking lure. I have used car spray paints for many years on both head and blades, and always found them to be more than satisfactory. Flo yellow and hot orange are my particular favourite colours, high contrast Steve. For blades I'd recommend Colorado ''twin'', one big, one smaller, it makes a difference in two respects, low frequency sound waves, that the bigger pike seem to respond to. Also dependant on the weight of the lead head they will ride slightly higher in the water. Stingers, I would suggest the same as the one built into the lead head. Length of S.B., mine are large, by that I mean that I measure the length of the main arm, from where you attach the snap link to the end of the rubber skirt. Mine average out about six to eight or so inches, sometimes a little larger. Any problem Steve P.M. me. P.S. before you attach any grub to the stinger hook, with pliers, grip the point of the stinger hook down the bend, and twist it off line with the shank, quarter of an inch would be enough. It will reduce the chances of fish coming adrift.
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Derek Thanks for your detailed response. We'll have a go this weekend.
Do you use any particular primer for the lead body? Thanks again Steve
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Steve, same as for the rest, ''white car primer''. I have used black nail polish for the lead head. ''No, I don't use it'', the wife picked some up for me to try. It's not bad Steve, and pretty durable. It's great fun, and only one hook to remove most times. Enjoy mate!
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derek.thinking about s/baits do you ever use bucktail on the lure instead of the rubber skirt.was thinking it would be easier to hide hooks among bucktail.plus i think it reacts better in water more movement.changed the rubber skirt on a few lures for the canal for orange bucktail /black and they seem to pulse more with the bucktail.still using the trailer worm on the single hook and the flow of water over the bucktail makes the plastic worm tail move faster without speeding the retrive up on the lure.found too that for some reason brass coloured colorado blades get me more follows.i have the same s/baits in silver and dont get near the same amount of action.the lures are both the same weight and design.really coming round to using s/baits they are a very versatile lure as you can cover all depths and the lure is constantly working even when not retreving.
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Greg, yes I have a number of bucktail S.B. and some inline big spinners with bucktail dressings. I think I tend to favour the rubber skirts, but from time to time have had good results on the B.T. but not as consistant. I'm really intrigued with the success of copper/brass over in Ireland. I remember Gord telling me about copper spoons, and how the older Irish pikers had complete faith in them. Any ideas on the reason Greg?
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derek.in relation to the copper/brass spoons i think it was to do with the peaty coloured water in the river and lakes in ireland.a favourite for pike here for years was the shoe horn in brass colour and converted into a big pike spoon.many of the older pike anglers swore by them.they also loved the orignal copper kettle for the smaller spoons.i have some origionl copper spoons and they are brillant on trout lakes and rivers.the old colorado spoon was also a favourite in shallow water.i would say colorado spoon was a trip down memory lane for you good old lure from the past.
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 Hi Derek, a few posts back you mentiond fishing SBs in the Trent. When river fishing with SBs I imagine you can retrieve quite slowly as the current imparts action to the lure. Is this how you fish them or do you retrieve fast enough so that the lure ends up at your rod tip be the time the current has brought it in line with the bank?
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_(158_x_211).jpg) Greg mentioned the irish lads using old metal shoe horns for big pike spoons etc.... such a simple idea,but an effective one and one of those that makes you think "i wish i`d thought of that !!!". This has kinda got me thinking (i hope this hasn`t been covered already) do folk still make spoons from "old dessert type spoons" ??? With car boot sales etc... being as popular as they are,there should be a plentiful supply out there.Also i have seen plenty of those old tacky type brass plates at boot sales,going for pennies.Surely they could be cut up for spoons???
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nick.the use of a shoe horn was out of necissaty rather than choice.years ago in rural ireland there was little or no tackle shops as such.so most guys made their own pike baits.plus they always believed that their bait was better than any fancy lure.to give you an idea of the mindset of the time about 1976 their was an old man who lived on lough derravaragh in a caravan he made all his own lures/carved duck decoys was very knowledgeable about countryside.we drove him to a tackle shop to get some cartridges/line for his pike reels.he bought his cartridges and mono had a good look around the shop at everything.after we had left and where driving him back i said to him well what did you think of all the new fishing gear.his reply was.god i never new there was so many things that i could do without.that summed it all up to me.
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 his reply was.god i never new there was so many things that i could do without.that summed it all up to me. That's one of the most sensible thing's I've read in ages. Just look at the proliferation of fooats, rig bits etc in recent seasons as they try to turn pike fishing into carp fishing.
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 That is bang on Greg. That's right Chris, they ARE trying to turn it into carp fishing, and will do if we let them carry on. If you see old Derek out pike fishing, you wonder where he keeps all his gear.
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Greg, thank's for the info on the copper spoons mate, I thought it might be along those lines, but now you've confirmed it. Thank's for filling in the holes. Andy M. when fishing a river like the Trent with the S.B. I try to fish them slowly aided by the current, you can do that. Letting them swing round in an ark is a knack that can be most usefull and deadly at times. I like to give them a little pumping action as they swing into the marginal slope below me. Hits can be savage. Greg, that old timer you refer to sounds like my kind of guy, and certainly of the Ray Webb mould. Bet it didn't stop him catching though. Chris B. sums it up perfectly, ''turning pike fishing into carp fishing''. Which is why I carry the bare minimum. Ron, you know I only carry what I need, it's all in, or on my jacket. Evolved over many years. Maximum efficiency, minimum fuss. And that's the way I love it.
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