It isn't the sound of lead or stone hitting the bottom, its the sound as it hits the water surface. Watch fish and see how they spook as a lead hits the surface, they aren't there when it gets to the bottom.

The sound of items hitting the surface is a big part of fish feeding and a stimulus that can be used to our advantage. A feeder hitting the water is very distinctive to the fish, tench home in on the sound as do barbel and chub. A pouch full of pellets landing is distinctive and totally different to the sound of boilies hitting the water.

This season I have been using this to provoke takes. With a bait situated below the baited area I have cast a feeder over the baited spot a couple of times and on many occasions I've had a bite within minutes as the fish rush to the sound of the feed. The same effect can be had by throwing in loose pellets or even (at one venue) hand-fulls of groundbait.

Chub are often caught by lobbing a bait to land with a plop which emulates the sound of a food item dropping from a tree and pike will home in to the sound of a fish hitting the water but I'm not sure how often this happens in the wild.

As for Bob's discovery that there is a lot of noise in a feeding zone, it is an interesting area to experiment in but I am not sure how we can reproduce those noises to provoke feeding or if we need to, we just need to get the smaller fish feeding to attract the bigger ones and that's usually pretty easy anyway.

I don't think there is an easy answer or one for all occasions or rivers.

There is no doubt that the sound of bait /  feeder etc. hitting the surface/ bottom on heavily barbel populated waters, where the fish have to compete, often brings them up to the spot very quickly.

Likewise, it generally, would not work on the Ouse  very well, when the expectation is one fish every few trips and many anglers will rove to find a feeding one or leave a bait out possibly all session.

As Chris mentioned, I have the opportunity to watch fish frequently and they will often respond immediately to the sound of bait hitting the water. I have even caught some fish before the feeder has hit the bottom in 5 feet of water. I have also spent many hours watching reactions to line in the water.

My opinion, for what it's worth is that I prefer a line that fish can see, and expect, rather than an invisible one that shocks them when/if the bump into it.

One of my friends uses Stonze and is very succesful on a very tough river. But if we are debating the difference between the noise a Stonze makes against a lead as it hits bottom as being important..................We really need to get a grip.

The majority of my customers over elaborate on their rigs, and frequently change to the "New" and latest gadget/edge but lose sight of its potential disadvantages whilst swallowing the tall stories about it's effectiveness.

After reading a recent Paper report about a fish caught on a fantastically trusty (insert name) rod it transpires it was not that make at all. This is where the Writer bends the truth and should be ashamed of himself. It happens all the time.

One of the biggest advantages of stonze in my opinion is that they are simply heavier than normal leads used and give more of a bolt rig effect.
Many (note . I said, many)of the advantages attributed to back leads are as a result of the same reason. 

There is no doubt that somedays the fish appear more cautious than normal, and no doubt some form of association with uncomfort exists.

Then again, having caught the same barbel in a session twice on more than one occasion, It does make you wonder.

As an experiment I once caught the same salmon parr 11 times in 30 minutes.

I reckon I could catch more 5lb chub on a large piece of flake and a mashed bread feeder with 10lb line and a size 4 hook than with a size 18 to 2lb bottom....and as our old angling friend  once said (or similar)............... The chevin is a most cautious of fish.

 Graham

Dave. See above, surface sound is very important. I agree 100pc

Graham

Dave,

Totally agree about sound of food items hitting the surface, one of the reasons why i always feed some casters when roach fishing, especially up in the water, as they make more noise than a maggot hitting the surface, as maggots land very softly.

Graham,

Agree that in many situations the sound of a lead hitting bottom won't make much difference as compared to a stonze weight, but depends on the water you're fishing - i certainly believe that it made a difference to my fishing in some situations though, particularly for carp when fishing in the margins.

I also know of pike anglers putting squash balls around their lead when 'bottom bouncing' baits from a boat.

 Surely sound/vibrations must be important to fish, otherwise why are they so well equipped to detect them? If the sound of a fish crunching bait can attract other fish from a distance, surely they must be able to distinguish the different sound that a lead makes when hitting bottom as compared to a stone - just a case of whether or not they are spooky ewnough to act on this information and perceive it as a danger. 

"It isn't the sound of lead or stone hitting the bottom, its the sound as it hits the water surface. Watch fish and see how they spook as a lead hits the surface, they aren't there when it gets to the bottom."

I do know that Dave B, I was merely responding to Gary:-

"For me personally it wasn't all down to a camouflage thing anyway and was as much about the noise they make when they hit bottom, or lack of it compared to a lead. Surely stone on stone is more natural?

"But the real question is; would a barbel know the difference between a golf ball and a giant gob stopper? Depending of course how long you'd been sucking on said stopper

Gary. Just wondered why you use a biggish weight when fishing in the margins for carp?

Pin the hook link / line down? or create a shock type rig? Camou?

 Want to understand reasoning, might help me.

 Graham

Surely the feed or not feed question depends on the water and fish your angling for.

Would you cast a method ball at a Wraysbury 1 original carp ripping up the bottom in front of you ?  Who has the balls to put the dropper on top of a record busting Barbel sat under a streamer frond in your swim on the Ouse ?  

…Not me !

I would say as a general rule of thumb, hungry waters, i.e high stock heavily fished waters will respond better to the feed/noise/attract type scenario while low stock lightly fished waters won’t….but there will be lots of exceptions to the rule as well.

Nicely summed up Philip.

Thanks Gary.

I thought that was the reasoning behind it. I'm after some very big, close in, carp locally, so I may take a leaf out of your book 

Graham

Yes have used pretty much that set-up. Understand what you are saying.

To be honest Gary, the Carp are not pressured at all and have hooked three whilst tench fishing in 10 goes this season. Landed none on the float rod and 6lb line as a few snags 20 yards away. The carp are Big.

Decided whilst the tench are going to be tough now the carp will feed occasionally still.

They travel round the lake and pay a visit pretty much each day. I will probably though only feed 10  boiles and 10 crumbled and some hemp and use a small bag of mini pellet, crumb and broken boiles. About the same amount as I put in for the tench. The carp seem to travel in groups of 3 or 4, that's why.

Good fishing. Thanks for the advice.

Graham