Long awaited report on the Gt Ouse

[The bad one]

Well here it is all 250 pages of it
https://hydra.hull.ac.uk/assets/hull:8222a/content
Enjoy

 

[wanderer]

This basically backs up what i said in an earlier post, if the fry are born in the Ouse, they rarely survive to any size, and the ageing giants are fast disappearing, it aint what it used to be, but maybe another traveller is lurking under the weed, i beleive a restocking programme will be needed within the next few years. Could have saved them the money and the trouble, ask a local angler, we know.

 

[Keith M]

Thanks for the link 'The Bad One' :thumbs:

Keith

 

[theartist]

This basically backs up what i said in an earlier post, if the fry are born in the Ouse, they rarely survive to any size, and the ageing giants are fast disappearing, it aint what it used to be, but maybe another traveller is lurking under the weed, i beleive a restocking programme will be needed within the next few years. Could have saved them the money and the trouble, ask a local angler, we know.

Restocking of Juve Barbel in that area has been going on for a number of years now already

 

[The bad one]

This basically backs up what i said in an earlier post, if the fry are born in the Ouse, they rarely survive to any size, and the ageing giants are fast disappearing, it aint what it used to be, but maybe another traveller is lurking under the weed, i beleive a restocking programme will be needed within the next few years. Could have saved them the money and the trouble, ask a local angler, we know.

You must be one hell of a speed reader to come to the conclusions you have to read and form such an opinion that you have. Or you haven't read more than the abstract to form your considered opinion

 

[greenie62]

Thanks for the article Phil,
Having started to wade through it - I've found it the perfect cure for insomnia - 20 mins of it and I was gone for 5hrs!

It's illuminating in terms of the lengths that researchers have to go through in order to prove something that others think they know instinctively. Also interesting in terms of the studies scope being limited by time / resources - flagging-up the need for further studies to be carried out.

Having read (part of) this article after viewing some of the Wild Trout Trust work on habitat creation/management - its interesting seeing the parallels between spawning area habitat for trout and barbel - as well as the creation of nursery areas with flow and depth management, etc.

How many of the lessons will be used in the near future on the Irk, Irwell, and Mersey Basin remains to be seen - but at least we're getting some ideas!

Cheers kid. :thumbs:

 

[wanderer]

You must be one hell of a speed reader to come to the conclusions you have to read and form such an opinion that you have. Or you haven't read more than the abstract to form your considered opinion

Scanned only the bits, i considered relevant, a lot of historic data, the only relevance is what we see today and the conclusions we can draw. The big guys are not there in the same numbers, tiny fish do not seem to grow into mid range, there seems to be nothing in the middle, worrying.

---------- Post added at 06:19 ---------- Previous post was at 06:15 ----------

Restocking of Juve Barbel in that area has been going on for a number of years now already

Unfortunately, so has the restocking of juve Otters.

 

[The bad one]

So basically you read nowt then other than the bits that fit your preconcived formed views? As to historical data that's only setting the context and background to the report. IT IS NOT what the report goes on to discuss from the findings of it and the solutions to sorting out the problems, which are many, the Gt Ouse is suffering from.

As to restocking young otters there has been a captive bred release anywhere in the UK for over 15 years mg: Oh and do big fish live forever?

 

[wanderer]

I think if you read some of my previous posts on this one, you may have come to the conclusion that i aam of the opinion that the lifespan of the giants has been reached. I am expert at reading through long reports mate, they have the time, to write them, i have limited time to read them, agricultural impact, otters, urbanisation, basically i am only concerned with a river thats just up the road that i know and love, i am aware how its fishing, cos i fish it, scientific claptrap goes right over my head, i either catch Barbel in the greatest Barbel river ever or i dont, i dont want reasons i want fish, thats what i pay my licence for.

 

[thecrow]

Thank you for the link TBO, its now in my favourites until I summon up the courage to read it, there should be some interesting stuff in among all the (needed) scientific stuff that even a layman like myself will be able to understand.

More reports/ studies like this are needed if we are understand what is happening to our rivers instead of relying on anecdotes based only on an anglers ability to catch fish (or not).

 

[Andy M]

Might be worth pointing out that the "report" is in fact a PhD Thesis and thus has not, presumably, been written by researchers for public or government consumption but as a piece of original research by a single person to convince the scientific powers-that-be that she is fit to start a career as a scientist. The format, all relevant precedents and historical research etc are a necessary requirement. I will no move on to page 2

 

[wanderer]

I wont bother to respond to that, dream on pal, you probably know your locality as well as i know mine, ones ability does not come into question, where 20 pound Barbel once lurked they no longer do, fact, where a 14 pounder was nothing special, a blank is the usual, read all you want, action is required not print.

---------- Post added at 12:47 ---------- Previous post was at 12:43 ----------

Sorry Andy, that was not meant for you.

 

[steve2]

If species of fish in a fishery are unable to reproduce successfully should we even be restocking it?
I can understand restocking following a pollution but if the river is no longer suitable why bother. Restocking should only be carried when the problems related to spawn are solved.

 

[wanderer]

If species of fish in a fishery are unable to reproduce successfully should we even be restocking it?
I can understand restocking following a pollution but if the river is no longer suitable why bother. Restocking should only be carried when the problems related to spawn are solved.

I fish a syndicate carp water that sits in a 5 lake chain, the carp do not spawn in it and arent some carp deliberately bred incapable of spawning, i disagree, the original stocking grew to sizes unmatched by anywhere in the country, stocking it for the future is a must.

 

[thecrow]

I wont bother to respond to that, dream on pal, you probably know your locality as well as i know mine, ones ability does not come into question, where 20 pound Barbel once lurked they no longer do, fact, where a 14 pounder was nothing special, a blank is the usual, read all you want, action is required not print.

---------- Post added at 12:47 ---------- Previous post was at 12:43 ----------

Sorry Andy, that was not meant for you.

If you thought that my post was aimed at you then you are so wrong, the post was aimed at drawing conclusions from anglers anecdotal evidence and while in the absence of anything else some conclusions could be drawn from them a scientific study will nearly always produce a fuller picture of what has happened in a river.

What is the action that is required that you speak of?

I am no lover of the ill conceived reintroductions of Otters but they were and are not the only problem, how do we find out what those other problems are if it is not with scientific evidence?

 

[wanderer]

From what i scanned of the report, it suggested silting up of the spawning grounds and various pollutants responsible, some habitats just dont seem to promote fry surviving. The Ouse is fall of crays and predatory fish, all will eat fry and spawn, the Barbel have never been present in huge numbers, just a small head of very large fish, probably do not have the spawning capacity to ensure the proliferation by overwhelming the predators with volume, i believe the Wensum has a similar problem but thats only heresay. The Otters have been a disaster, Adams Mill has gone from an exclusive syndicate to being back on the standard MK book, they have killed the big old fish and there isnt much behind them. Short of moving the urbanisation away from the river, there probably is no answer short of constant restocking every twenty years or so, nothing else is likely to change.

 

[thecrow]

The Ouse has received thousands of Barbel in restockings over the last few years, if these have been unsuccessful the question needs to be asked why, its obvious that more stockings would be a waste of time.

The only way to find out why is scientific study that will identify the problems in that particular river.

 

[geoffmaynard]

the post was aimed at drawing conclusions from anglers anecdotal evidence and while in the absence of anything else some conclusions could be drawn from them a scientific study will nearly always produce a fuller picture of what has happened in a river.

I used to believe in this too. However on the Wye I have watched as scientific salmon reports have been gerrymandered and warped into supporting a govt agenda which results in little more than merely a gravy-train for the local river trust. Every year we have enthusiastic babblings about huge improvements, backed up by cherry-picked 'data' to support the narrative.
The facts (as reported by the anglers) are different, millions of pounds have been spent to little effect.

A the risk of getting a rocket from Phil perhaps someone who has the time to do so can give us an unbiased edited version of what the report says?

 

[bennygesserit]

I used to believe in this too. However on the Wye I have watched as scientific salmon reports have been gerrymandered and warped into supporting a govt agenda which results in little more than merely a gravy-train for the local river trust. Every year we have enthusiastic babblings about huge improvements, backed up by cherry-picked 'data' to support the narrative.
The facts (as reported by the anglers) are different, millions of pounds have been spent to little effect.

A the risk of getting a rocket from Phil perhaps someone who has the time to do so can give us an unbiased edited version of what the report says?

There will be a summary in the Geoff

 

[theartist]

A the risk of getting a rocket from Phil perhaps someone who has the time to do so can give us an unbiased edited version of what the report says?

Seems like a lot of work went into the study but by their own admission there was not enough time to study the effects of otters which was a shame.

The shallow slack areas that are proposed will surely silt up like they have done elsewhere on other rivers I know. With 20% more people here than there was 20 years ago it's safe to say abstraction has gone up by a similar percentage so water flow is a big issue for fish reproduction on all rivers. New reservoirs are quite pricey compared to taking a bit more out the ground i'm guessing.

Backwaters are a better idea, with just one entrance they don't silt up at all and offer an abundance of cover for small fry in normal conditions and in floods. I know a couple on the Lea and Colne that are just full of fish and other wildlife too. Give some of the clubs who own stretches the go ahead to have some fun with a couple of JCBs in a few meadows here and there and the outcome will be more positive than waiting around for the EA to spend our licence fee on the results of studies that leave more questions than answers.