Bite offs

[Tim Birch]

I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on this problem.
I have been fishing a small commercial and have had what I can only describe as bite offs.
I have used different types of line on a short 4-6" hooklength which has generally been just placed in the margins, so no stress.
Tried this with slighly thicher mono and the line looked as though it had been bitten or snipped with blunt scissors.
I've thought of mussels but there are non in evidence so maybe terrapins (they have been caught before) or crayfish (but can these 'snip' line?) This happened twice 2 or 3 days ago and 3 times last night.

Any Ideas?

 

[Richard Huggett 1]

Eels perhaps ?

 

[Nick Austin 2]

how old is the line TIM?

 

[alan]

if crayfish are like crabs they might cut the line leaving a slightly flattend end

 

[Frothey]

i'd be amazed if its a bite off on a 4" hooklink - try a 2" and see what happens.

 

[Frothey]

are you using flourocarbon hooklengths/heavy leads?
are you reeling in and finding it gone, or is it going on the take?

 

[The Monk]

In the old days when bite off used to occured regularly, it was suggested that the cause was confident feeding carp taking the bait beyond the pharangeal teeth (throad teeth), yet I have never see evidence of deep hooked carp taken in this way?

Someone wrote in to one of the comics a few years ago, the pillock who was answering these right ups suggested to the writer that he change his hook length to a braid thus reducing the chances of a bite off, that was the biggest load of bollocks I`d ever seen writen in my life, and this prat who was employed by the comic, could not get his head round the problem and had no understanding or experience of bite offs and was giving out this type of information to the general angling public (we`ll call him superstar Matt).

Daves advice sounds about right, if these bite offs are being caused by your bait going beyond the Pharangeal teeth ( I once wrote a full blown article about this in one of the David Hall mags many years ago, If I can find it, I`ll send it on)they the ethical solution would suggest that you shorted your hooklength, I would suggest you measure the distance the bite off (alleged) is occurring from the hook?

whatever you do, "do not use braid under these conditions", braid will not snip as clean as mono and a real danger exists of a carp (or any other cyprinidae)(that is fish with throat teeth) being deep hooks beyond the pharangeal

 

[Tim Birch]

Many thanks for all your replies.

Richard - Eels? is this a known phenomenon that eels can do this. There have been eels caught, however I am using Meat baits about the same size as a 21mm marine halibut pellet.

Nick - Not very old line. Has happened using both mono and multistrand.

Alan - I was'nt sure if a crayfish has powerful / sharp enough claws. Is this possible?

Frothey & Monk - I am using hooklengths of 5 to 6 inches and damage is occuring around 2 inches from the hook which, coupled with the bait size, I would have thought rules out a carps pharyngeal teeth. The lead has been around 2.5 to 3 oz fished from 4 foot to 10 foot from rod tip with no indication whatsoever.

I am reeling in with no snag resistance whatsoever, and lead is sometimes just placed in position.

I dont know about braid Monk, I'm thinking more along the lines of a wire trace at the moment (joke).

I would appreciate you thoughts on this matter.

 

[The Monk]

Yes Tim, the bite offs I descibed would occur on mass and particule type baits

2 inch from the hook would not rule out Pharangeal teeth although bait size would

On the St Lawrence we experienced major problems with zebras and rocks and I know some of the lads have tried traces, although I wouldnt recommend it

Its unlikely cray fish will do this, or at least I`ve never known it and I have spent many years fishing waters were these are present

 

[Tim Birch]

Only joking about the traces Monk.
I did have a poke about in on of the areas but couldnt find any sign of mussels.

So What about Eels and terrapins?
both have been caught here.

Or is there anly other creature,(not including scuba divers with scissors) which may do this?

 

[jason fisher]

yes crays can do that but you usually get tiny little taps to accompany it happening. stick on a wire trace with a bit of liver on the hook if the liver comes back shredded you've got crays

 

[Richard Huggett 1]

Yes Tim, eels are more than capable of biting through mono or braid hooklinks...they have a fair old set of teeth. A lot of eel anglers will specify wire hooklinks to combat the problem.

Anything meaty will attract an eel...no, I'll rephrase that. Anything will attract an eel, meaty or not. Some of the biggest recorded eels have fallen to bread paste baits, mainly to match anglers who all of a sudden find themselves attached to six or seven pounds of very annoyed eel, which must come as a shock when you're fishing with 2lb line and a size 20 hook.

Not too sure about terrapins...my son had two which he kept for years in a large aquarium until he moved to Oz, and their teeth were capable of biting through your hook, never mind your line!

Carrying on from Jason's idea, I'd be tempted to put out a roach head on a size 6 ESP Raptor, wire trace and fifteen pound mainline and see what happens.

 

[Tim Birch]

Thanks Richard.
I spoke to my father about this and he told me that many years ago fishing in Norfolk they would have the same problem with eels.
I think I'll ask the fishery owner for permission to try with a big hook and head to see what happens. I'll let you know.

 

[Big Rik]

Sounds like crays to me, or Chinese mitten crabs.
Fish a boilie and see if it comes backed wittled, a sure sign.

 

[Tim Birch]

Crays can go through line?
I would have thought multistrand would be a problem.
I might try netting the area as well to see what comes out. (boilies are banned -.. but for the sake of scientific research ?)

 

[Tim Birch]

Chinese mitten crabs?
A vd from a chin pro?

 

[Tim Birch]

oops sorry wrong forum (sorry graham)

 

[Frothey]

try a really light lead with a very short Kryston Quiksilver hooklength. you should be able to see little pulls and things, and they aren't easily going to bite through it.

 

[Budgie Burgess]

Despite knowing all the info on bite offs I have never actualy experienced one.Did a lot of carp fishing when running leads,side hooking and long hook lengthsd were the standard so thought I would have.How many on here have actually had a problem with this?

 

[Big Rik]

Never ever experienced bite offs from carp.
Had one or two from chub.

A lot of my early carping (78->)was with paste baits freelined with the hook buried in the bait, so that was probably prime for it, but it never occurred, but there again I was sat over my rods watching for indications and not drunk in a ditch or down the Horse and Barge.