Thank goodness for Carp

[Lord Paul of Sheffield]

some will no doubt learn but others will not have the build up knowledge of other species - maybe worse still is those you see with no experience who you see "dragging" carp of around 10lb mark on 15lb BS line - no playing skills needed just wind in and hope you don't tear the fish's mouth
I've seen one young lad fishing with a pole using floating bread and he's yanked the pole upwards to get the carp in - no skill at all

[paul1234]

I have not targeted carp now for a fair few years.and i personally do not feel the need to as i prefer catching,tench,bream,roach,even had a cracking session the other week catching some huge gudgeon,but i do not disregard carp as a species.surely alot of todays angling success with regards to specimens of both carp and alot of othere species i.e bream, tench and roach and perch,is down to the way in which people fish for carp these days,high quality baits and alot of the time a fair amount of bait is being put in the fisheries weather it be a small comercial,or a gravel pit.for me i think that if anything it has done fishing a favour,hense why alot of specimens caught today are caught from places where people only focus on carp,and neglect alot of other species,

[sam vimes]

I too am disappointed with the number of waters all but dedicated to carp, yet I actually like fishing for the things. I don't like the fact that some half decent tench and bream waters have been transformed into something else by the wholesale introduction of carp. I yearn for a genuinely mixed (stillwater) fisheries where decent bream, tench, roach, perch, rudd, pike etc are all present alongside half decent carp. I know such waters do exist, sadly, not particularly in my neck of the woods. I'm pleased to be involved in a water where this kind of mixed fishery is exactly what we are aiming to achieve. Sadly, it looks like an uphill struggle that's going to take (for one reason or another) many, many years to achieve. I really hope it comes off.

However, none of these woes are the fault of carp. It's modern angling and modern anglers that drive the direction of modern fisheries. Owners simply go where the money is. The sad fact is that without the inclusion of carp in their stillwaters, many clubs, syndicates and day ticket waters would not get enough custom to survive.

[paul1234]

Sam i can agree with you on this,although on 1 hand i do think the introduction of carp to a venue can be a good thing,for other species,i do feel it has the equal power to devastate certain fisheries.i know of a little pond me and my mate fished years ago, there were cracking rudd,a handful of 20lb carp,the odd big perch,some truly stunning crucians.and great tench sport aswell,the venue is no more than an acre in size.it had weed here there and everywhere.a nice overgrown island in the middle.generally a very undermanaged and yet still very magical neglected pond.about 8 years ago, the owner decided to open it to the public(we did have permission to fish there).from that point on all the weed was taken out the banks were all cleaned up pegs were put in,and tge grass was cut to a lawn standard,then was the introduction of f1s,and lots of them.now there is no sign of the rudd.all but a small handful of tench have died,and no sign of the large perch.the crucians also vanished.though from what ive heard there has been some stocked recently.i will always have nice memories of how it once was,i just think its a shame that the thought of money,in my opinion destroyed the magic of the fisherie.this is not a reflection or my thoughts of all comercial style fisheries just this one imparticular.

[chub_on_the_block]

Paul - what you describe is what i think has been the problem in a nutshell, repeated in countless small fisheries.

Back in the day i used to spend a couple of months of the season targeting tench, getting some nice bags here and there, then maybe some bream fishing or carp fishing, before targeting the rivers in earnest in the autumn. These were local fisheries good for one thing or the other. At the end of a season the highlights had something of everything in them and i wouldnt have wanted it any other way. Its this diversity that is now quite hard to find i think.

[cg74]

Originally Posted by Lord Paul of Sheffield

some will no doubt learn but others will not have the build up knowledge of other species - maybe worse still is those you see with no experience who you see "dragging" carp of around 10lb mark on 15lb BS line - no playing skills needed just wind in and hope you don't tear the fish's mouth
I've seen one young lad fishing with a pole using floating bread and he's yanked the pole upwards to get the carp in - no skill at all

So 15lb line for a 10lb carp is overkill, yet many on here use such tackle for barbel averaging 8lb!
I often read of 8lb+ line being used for chub, which IMO is seldom needed.
Anglers using 10-12lb line in conjunction with carp rods for tench and bream.... Oh my god, where will all end?!
And then there's you going on about double figure carp being "dragged" in, excuse my confusion, but are you saying that said anglers actually crank (turning of the reel handle) the fish in, or do they pump and draw their rods?

Can you tell me how you learnt how to play fish.

---------- Post added at 18:13 ---------- Previous post was at 17:24 ----------

Originally Posted by chub_on_the_block

Half the number of participants would be a good thing from my selfish point of view! I might be able to find less crowded or heavily fished places to fish and fewer waters would be tied up by syndicates.

The advancements bit I am also not sure about really. Its the essence of fishing, not the shiny new branded tackle, that floats my boat. How does modern equipment improve the enjoyment significantly compared to the 1980s?. Keeping up with the latest fashionable equipment/brand etc would be very low on my list.

My figure of half was a very conserative estimation, as here in Oxfordshire I'd put the figure at 90-95% of all angling exploits are carp based. I also stick firmly to my comments regards tackle (and technique) advancements being born out with carp in mind.
Yes, you like a few others (and if we are honest, you are in a very, very small minority) maybe uninfluenced by advancements but it's because of the huge majority that do buy new tackle, that we now have such good rods and reels etc.... Money talks!

[Lord Paul of Sheffield]

cg74

I started with a match rod, 4lb line and maggots,

I think fish to suit - the 15lb line maybe needed on a snaggy river but to catch 12lb carp on a commercial I doubt it


iI've seen the kid I mention get the pole and pull back to get a carp in - and some with good lit but maybe over gunned on a small commercail just get a carp on and reel in - they don't pump at all - no need with a 6lb carp on heavy gear - but it's over the top in my opinion

How did I learn to play a fish - with a match rod , 4lb main and 2lb hook length - - ok at first I only caught small roach and skimmers tyhat didn't take much playing but hooking 4lb carp needed a bit more - and I learned by mistakes - played to hard and lost fish - how about you

[bennygesserit]

like you say though someone starting fishing now will more than likely start on a commie and catch big carp , small roach and dedication cannot compete with that or even an xbox.

But those guys will come to fishing later in life and find something they enjoy.

The world is changing and the pace of change is growing ever faster - get out of the way Grandad

[cg74]

Originally Posted by Lord Paul of Sheffield

cg74

I started with a match rod, 4lb line and maggots,

I think fish to suit - the 15lb line maybe needed on a snaggy river but to catch 12lb carp on a commercial I doubt it


iI've seen the kid I mention get the pole and pull back to get a carp in - and some with good lit but maybe over gunned on a small commercail just get a carp on and reel in - they don't pump at all - no need with a 6lb carp on heavy gear - but it's over the top in my opinion

How did I learn to play a fish - with a match rod , 4lb main and 2lb hook length - - ok at first I only caught small roach and skimmers tyhat didn't take much playing but hooking 4lb carp needed a bit more - and I learned by mistakes - played to hard and lost fish - how about you

Paul, I don't want to nit-pick but I'm glad that I'm not reliant on your evidence to save me....
I know carp weights will vary within a fishery but what weight fish are you actually talking about, as you swing between 12lb to 6lb (average 9lb?)?
TBH though, I don't believe that its easy to crank a 10lb or even a 9lb carp, as for the pole angler, is his pole not elasticated? Or are we talking about cranking 6lb carp straight in??

"Over the top" Yep I totally agree a 3lb test rod coupled with 15lb line is OTT.

How did I start playing fish; with a 10' Shakespeare Omni match rod and some crappy reel pre-loaded with 4lb line - First (more likely; first half dozen) 3lb chub, stuffed themselves into bushes. So I upped my line to 7lb, then over time I improved greatly at playing fish, going on to happily landing 6lb+ chub on 1.7lb hook lengths.

Interestingly both of us learnt from OUR mistakes, yet you chastise others for doing the very same........ Strange, very strange.

[bennygesserit]

Paul, I don't want to nit-pick

yes you do