Disguising hooks?

[justabitpikey]

Hello everyone
So yesterday I was fishing floating dog biscuits on a local lake. Managed one high double. Could have been much more successful if it weren't for the ducks. But anyway between the duck plagues I noticed quite often fish would come up to my bait, inspect it and then turn away. I are sure the hooklength was greased so they weren't feeling the line and I reckon they could see my hook. Do any of you try and hide the hook in any way when fishing floaters?

 

[barbelboi]

If not hair rigging have you tried making a groove in one side of the floater and then supergluing the shank of the hook into the groove - also the biggest give away can be the last inch of line closest to the hook - of course also don't use a bigger hook than in necessary for the size of bait...................

 

[binka]

Sorry... Sorry... mg:

In an attempt to be remotely helpful have you tried, in relation to your duck problem, this...

Duck Sentinel - In Action - YouTube

I don't want to nick the credit for the find and you have Uncle S-kippy to thank (or blame!) for that one

 

[justabitpikey]

Sorry... Sorry... mg:

In an attempt to be remotely helpful have you tried, in relation to your duck problem, this...

Duck Sentinel - In Action - YouTube



I don't want to nick the credit for the find and you have Uncle S-kippy to thank (or blame!) for that one

There's always one....

What exactly is that then? Looks good

Barbelboi I was hair rigging them. Superglue might be an idea.

Thanks for the replies so far boys given me something to think about
Atb

 

[peter crabtree]

I don't think any fish knows what a hook is or has the brainpower to associate it with danger?
They are however capable of observing ( floating baits especially ) when a bait is moving (or not moving) in natural way.

 

[barbelboi]

Justa, if hair rigging I usually use 10mm floating pellets banded on a longish hair (1"ish from the bend) with a size 12 Kamasan B911X (or similar - strong but not too heavy) - if using dog/cat biscuits I prefer the superglue method.

 

[thecrow]

If the water is not to deep it can pay to fish a zig rig so that the bait is on or only just under the surface, its something I used years ago to catch some very wary Carp that had become very cute when approaching normal floater methods.

 

[nicepix]

I don't think any fish knows what a hook is or has the brainpower to associate it with danger?
They are however capable of observing ( floating baits especially ) when a bait is moving (or not moving) in natural way.

I disagree. Animals learn by association and when you consider all the many variables encountered by fish that are caught there are only one that is consistently there; the hook.

Breaking a negative association with bait is easy. Dye sweetcorn, change the flavour of paste. Use a different brand of luncheon meat. You can even change your hook links to braid, or other material. But how do you change the smell, taste, sight of a metal hook?

But I also accept your point that a hook bait may well act differently to free offerings and that could well be the reason they are rejected.

 

[thecrow]

Might it be a combination of both?

 

[justabitpikey]

Justa, if hair rigging I usually use 10mm floating pellets banded on a longish hair (1"ish from the bend) with a size 12 Kamasan B911X (or similar - strong but not too heavy) - if using dog/cat biscuits I prefer the superglue method.

I think superglue could be the way forwards. Also I guess the hook isn't as prominent if it is what's putting them off.

If the water is not to deep it can pay to fish a zig rig so that the bait is on or only just under the surface, its something I used years ago to catch some very wary Carp that had become very cute when approaching normal floater methods.

I think that's what I will try next time as I noticed some definite 'patrol routes' where they would cruise about 8" under the surface.

I don't think any fish knows what a hook is or has the brainpower to associate it with danger?
They are however capable of observing ( floating baits especially ) when a bait is moving (or not moving) in natural way.

I certainly used to be of this opinion but after yesterday I'm not so sure. It was the way they would get to about an inch away from the bait pause and then turn away. They didn't spook so I don't think it was the line touching them and the way every time it was the same distance and they seemed to inspect the bait. It is quite a heavily fished lake so I think the larger fish (which these were) probably knew what they were doing. That said this could just be a ridiculous notion sparked by a unsuccessful days fishing and too much sun.


Thanks for all the replies been really helpful

 

[jackyb]

If I was you I'd freeline a lump of crust, quite a sizeable piece but use hook that you can hide in the bait. before casting out dunk the bread in water so it gives you that extra casting weight, you'll be surprised at the distance you can chuck it once you get it right

 

[robtherake]

I don't know if this is something that has already been mentioned, but I prefer to leave the last foot of the line before the hook untreated so that it sinks. A floating line on the surface - whether it's lo-viz or not - must be silhouetted against the surface. Maybe it would be more accurate to say that the line pushing into the surface tension causes it to be visible. Anyway, whether I'm right or wrong, it does seem to get you more bites.
I can't claim that this is original thinking - it's pinched from the writings of an angling great whose name escapes me - but it seems to make good sense.

Another wrinkle is to use a big - at least 2" - piece of crust from an uncut loaf and fish it on a running leger with a lead of about 1.5oz on a short link with a sliding leger bead on the other end. This way you can fish it zig fashion from a few inches off-bottom all the way up to the surface. It's easy to experiment on the day to find out how deep the fish want it. Allow it to surface after the cast and wind it down a bit at a time until you get a take. Unless you have diving ducks on your water, it's possible to wind it down out of the way when the feathered perils put in an appearance.

To get it to stay on, use a baiting needle to pull the hook (a size 6 is about right) through the crust and out of the the fluffy side, pull some line through and loop it round, push the hook eye-first into the edge under the crust and gently pull the line back until it's tight. Then just chuck it out and wait for the rod to be pulled in. This isn't original either, BTW, but it's a brilliant summer tactic on bagging waters and very cheap on bait. Tin loaves are only 85p in Tescos and three uncut loaves will usually see you through the whole day

 

[geoffmaynard]

Be wary of using too much superglue - they don't like the taste of it; and that could also be a factor in your hook choice. Use a coated hook to prevent them tasting the hook-metal as they get close to the bait.
But the best strategy is to bury it in half a slice of Mothers Pride!

 

[laguna]

If fish are inspecting the bait or spooking from hooks you could try hook skins?
They break up the hook profile, counter the weight and they add a little buoyancy, they also help negate electro-negativity from the hook that can be picked up on by the fish.

There's a liquid version coming out too which can be used for dipping hooks shot and swivels in which dries to form a skin.

 

[robtherake]

I've taken to sliding a piece of Powerbait artificial bloodworm over the hook when I'm fishing hair-rigged baits on the surface, covering all except the point and last bit of bend.
At the very least, it's something the fish haven't seen before.

Edit - Same treatment for zigs and pop-ups, too.

 

[pointngo]

I always leave the last few inches of hooklink ungreased as I think it breaks up the line in the surface film, which must be quite visible from below. I only leave a few inches though as a foot of line hanging down might be felt by the fish and might also drag the hookbait close to where it's greased.

when fish are pressured on the top they can get very tricky to catch, although some days you will find them feeding well and can catch them. A lake local to me has been hammered on top but link ledgering a bait on the surface has been picking off a few fish recently where normal floater tactics have failed... strange how things go full circle in fishing; that and freelining crust was how I started carp fishing when I was a kid.

I think fish sense a lot more things than we give them credit for.. those micro events that most of us aren't even aware of. Metal gives off tiny electrical currents for instance and the nasty metallic taste you get when you put it in your mouth must feel very alien to fish, which live in a mostly "soft" environment.

I used to camouflage some hooks when carp fishing by using a piece of leadcore outer sheathing (lead removed) secured along the shank with the ends ruffled. It worked well but not able to tell whether it made a difference really as I was fishing a low stock, tricky lake at the time.

Glare could be a big factor with surface hooks as well so use a dull finish hook.

I always hair rig biscuits by either pre-drilling hard ones or using softened biscuits (which can also just be side hooked). I don't like using superglue to mount dog biscuits personally; it works and provides good hook presentation but it just takes too long to change bait as you have to remove the glue on the hook before you put another one on. Dog biscuits are only good for one cast so it gets too time consuming, which costs you missed opportunities. Sometimes you only get a short window when they're feeding confidently and you have to make the most of it. Getting them feeding confidently, and competitively, is the key but often you just aim for that ideal while the fish have other ideas.. that's when you need to be quick imho as you may only have a few minutes of a real chance.


Edit: lol, looks as though the last 2 posts have already made my points before I finished writing.

 

[justabitpikey]

I think ill give the hook skins a try. I might also try putting dog biscuits in pellet bands...

Ill keep you posted on how it goes.

Thanks for all the advice

 

[nicepix]

If fish are inspecting the bait or spooking from hooks you could try hook skins?
They break up the hook profile, counter the weight and they add a little buoyancy, they also help negate electro-negativity from the hook that can be picked up on by the fish.

There's a liquid version coming out too which can be used for dipping hooks shot and swivels in which dries to form a skin.

I've thought about dipping the hooks in PVA solution. I use it to stiffen up braid and it forms a light skin over the line that makes it more resistant to abrasion. Although with hooks I'm of the opinion that anything like this will not totally mask the scent of the hook, but add something to it. It might be enough to break the association with danger though.

 

[The Sogster]

If not hair rigging have you tried making a groove in one side of the floater and then supergluing the shank of the hook into the groove - also the biggest give away can be the last inch of line closest to the hook - of course also don't use a bigger hook than in necessary for the size of bait...................

Personally, I have found for the last 20+ years that a piece of cork cut to the same size and approximate shape of a mixer is better.
Superglue the hook in, using a size which will be hidden in the cork silhouette and then on the opposite side drill/ carve a hole and superglue a shot in.

This will counterbalance the hook, meaning that the hook is never in the water.

I guarantee a fish will never mouth the bait and feel the hook.

Of course the cork can also be flavoured in your favourite oil or glug.

 

[law]

In my experience, it's not the hook the fish see but the line.

They are coming up from under it, or at it and they can see the line trailing. Especially from under it. It's silhouetted against the sky

So, go against the grain and surface fish when its windy and cloudy. The ripples mean the fish cannot see it. This is how I've caught huge numbers of carp from the surface on lakes where 'surface fishing is impossible here'