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Old 13-05-2005, 15:48
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Let just ignore the question of whether bolt rigging for Roach is ethical or enjoyable.

Last night I was experimenting on a local pit (Bank End) trying to get bolt rigs to self hook any fish of any size. I managed to catch a decent number of small Carp betwen 2oz and 1lb, plus a couple of Skimmers. I imagine the Roach will be similar.

I'd been adapting my Tench rigs and had a helicoptor rig working pretty well.

With an inline setup I was getting fewer indications and only managed to land a single fish.

This has thrown up many questions;

Should I be trying to get the rig to spring back towards the rod when a fish takes or should the fish be hooking itself against the lead/feeder?

I seem to need stronger hooklengths (5lb for instance) to prevent the hooklink breaking on the take. I even had a fish straighten the hook on the take last night. Is this normal?

Is is possible to have the rig hook every fish that takes the bait or is a certain percentage of failures normal?
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Old 13-05-2005, 18:13
jason fisher
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good thread!

Should I be trying to get the rig to spring back towards the rod when a fish takes or should the fish be hooking itself against the lead/feeder?

i'd go for hooking against the lead, if you use spring back methods and the fish moves towards you you're knackered.

what size hooks are you using, the smaller the hook the less force required to set it so the less weight, 3/4 oz should work with a 20.
but i'd use 1oz.

3lb hooklength, 5 or 6lb mainline.
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Old 13-05-2005, 18:25
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Cheers for the reply Jason.

Last night I used size 16 Kamasan B611B hooks. I tried weights from 0.5oz to 2.5oz at 40 yards. 1.5oz seemed most sucessful.
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Old 13-05-2005, 18:26
jason fisher
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1.5 is about right for a 16.
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Old 13-05-2005, 18:56
Deecy
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Matt I have used thee rigs for many years since I first saw them in use at Tring mid eighties I think.
This is one of the few occasions where I think braid is superior to nylon as a mainline.
The rods used are important too, 'avon' type rods are a poor choice , far better are rods designed to fish big feeders on rivers for small fish , so have a look in the match section of the shop.Daiwa do some super examples. This type of rod will cast better and prevent Roach coming off while you play them.
The rig itself has to be a helicopter type.In line was tried but I found it a poor second to helicopter.My rig is as follows. Two one inch bits of silicone.A swivel sits btween them.Take a stiff plastic bristle and cut it to around one inch.Push the bristle through the swivel and push each end of the bristle into the two bits of silicone.The swivel must be small, size 12 for example.With the bristle in place you have a helicopter rig that will easiy free itself should you lose a rig.
The hooklength should be at least 5lb otherwise it will break during a bite, Roach giv savage pulls on the rig.I like team Daiwa matchwinner.Hooks are important.My favourites are Shrimp hooks as sold in the fly fishing section.Tie these knotless knot style trim off and keep short about two inches is right.Hook size is now a 14 for me, with two maggots.You don't need tiny hooks big Roach in this situation don't seem bothered by a bigger hook.
I use a feeder of about 1.75 ounces, this I have found to be the optimum weight.Heavier feeders cause probs with hook pulls.
Cast it out and tighten up so all is bowstring tight.Put on a heavy indicator I now use bobbins but have a pair of modified swingers which are just as good.If you have set it up right a gentle pull down of the indicator will see the bobbin go back to the starting position.Bites will almost always be huge drop backs but occasionally in a strong undertow you might get full bloodied runs.
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Old 13-05-2005, 19:39
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David, it sounds like I'm coming to the same conclusions you've already found.

I've been fishing heavy bobbins with the line as tight as I can get without the feeder moving. The difference in ratio in fish landed has been phenominal since I fished such tight lines.

You've lost me with the description of your rig! You couldn't post a photo or drawing could you?

Cheers.
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Old 13-05-2005, 19:54
paul williams 2
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Deecy....
i know the "bristle rig"....but you lost me to!
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Old 13-05-2005, 20:29
Ron 'The Hat' Clay
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I was once shown a self hooking still water roach rig that was devastating. Andy Nellist uses something similar I believe.

A two hook paternoster with a very heavy feeder. The hook links are short, say 2 inches. Then you fasten a length of pole elastic above this, cast out and pull everyting tight such that if you pulled any further the feeder would move.

Put a bobbin on the line and when it goes slack you have him.
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Old 13-05-2005, 20:45
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That's similar to what I've been doing (except the pole elastic) but it's the finer points I need to improve.
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Old 13-05-2005, 21:14
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I agree with deecy theres far less stretch with braid not ever using it myself apart from spinning but if you can get really low diametre braid i think u should connect with more fish i personally wouldnt use the 2 hook paternoster but who am i too argue with ron
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