Bolt Rigging For Roach

[Matt Brown]

Let just ignore the question of whether bolt rigging for Roach is ethical or enjoyable.

Last night I was experimenting on a local pit (Bank End) trying to get bolt rigs to self hook any fish of any size. I managed to catch a decent number of small Carp betwen 2oz and 1lb, plus a couple of Skimmers. I imagine the Roach will be similar.

I'd been adapting my Tench rigs and had a helicoptor rig working pretty well.

With an inline setup I was getting fewer indications and only managed to land a single fish.

This has thrown up many questions;

Should I be trying to get the rig to spring back towards the rod when a fish takes or should the fish be hooking itself against the lead/feeder?

I seem to need stronger hooklengths (5lb for instance) to prevent the hooklink breaking on the take. I even had a fish straighten the hook on the take last night. Is this normal?

Is is possible to have the rig hook every fish that takes the bait or is a certain percentage of failures normal?

 

[jason fisher]

good thread!

Should I be trying to get the rig to spring back towards the rod when a fish takes or should the fish be hooking itself against the lead/feeder?

i'd go for hooking against the lead, if you use spring back methods and the fish moves towards you you're knackered.

what size hooks are you using, the smaller the hook the less force required to set it so the less weight, 3/4 oz should work with a 20.
but i'd use 1oz.

3lb hooklength, 5 or 6lb mainline.

 

[Matt Brown]

Cheers for the reply Jason.

Last night I used size 16 Kamasan B611B hooks. I tried weights from 0.5oz to 2.5oz at 40 yards. 1.5oz seemed most sucessful.

 

[jason fisher]

1.5 is about right for a 16.

 

[Deecy]

Matt I have used thee rigs for many years since I first saw them in use at Tring mid eighties I think.
This is one of the few occasions where I think braid is superior to nylon as a mainline.
The rods used are important too, 'avon' type rods are a poor choice , far better are rods designed to fish big feeders on rivers for small fish , so have a look in the match section of the shop.Daiwa do some super examples. This type of rod will cast better and prevent Roach coming off while you play them.
The rig itself has to be a helicopter type.In line was tried but I found it a poor second to helicopter.My rig is as follows. Two one inch bits of silicone.A swivel sits btween them.Take a stiff plastic bristle and cut it to around one inch.Push the bristle through the swivel and push each end of the bristle into the two bits of silicone.The swivel must be small, size 12 for example.With the bristle in place you have a helicopter rig that will easiy free itself should you lose a rig.
The hooklength should be at least 5lb otherwise it will break during a bite, Roach giv savage pulls on the rig.I like team Daiwa matchwinner.Hooks are important.My favourites are Shrimp hooks as sold in the fly fishing section.Tie these knotless knot style trim off and keep short about two inches is right.Hook size is now a 14 for me, with two maggots.You don't need tiny hooks big Roach in this situation don't seem bothered by a bigger hook.
I use a feeder of about 1.75 ounces, this I have found to be the optimum weight.Heavier feeders cause probs with hook pulls.
Cast it out and tighten up so all is bowstring tight.Put on a heavy indicator I now use bobbins but have a pair of modified swingers which are just as good.If you have set it up right a gentle pull down of the indicator will see the bobbin go back to the starting position.Bites will almost always be huge drop backs but occasionally in a strong undertow you might get full bloodied runs.

 

[Matt Brown]

David, it sounds like I'm coming to the same conclusions you've already found.

I've been fishing heavy bobbins with the line as tight as I can get without the feeder moving. The difference in ratio in fish landed has been phenominal since I fished such tight lines.

You've lost me with the description of your rig! You couldn't post a photo or drawing could you?

Cheers.

 

[paul williams 2]

Deecy....
i know the "bristle rig"....but you lost me to!

 

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay]

I was once shown a self hooking still water roach rig that was devastating. Andy Nellist uses something similar I believe.

A two hook paternoster with a very heavy feeder. The hook links are short, say 2 inches. Then you fasten a length of pole elastic above this, cast out and pull everyting tight such that if you pulled any further the feeder would move.

Put a bobbin on the line and when it goes slack you have him.

 

[Matt Brown]

That's similar to what I've been doing (except the pole elastic) but it's the finer points I need to improve.

 

[Karl P]

I agree with deecy theres far less stretch with braid not ever using it myself apart from spinning but if you can get really low diametre braid i think u should connect with more fish i personally wouldnt use the 2 hook paternoster but who am i too argue with ron

 

[jason fisher]

who am i too argue with ron

why not if you have a point make it, that's what a forums for.

you never know you might have some thing useful to say.

that last bit obviously i won't apply to myself.

 

[Michael Townsend 3]

I stick to one hook because you only get about one fish in ten on the top hook, plus it can tangle in the net which is a pain, especialy when trying to unhook a big roach at night.

 

[Deecy]

Bristle helicopter rig.
Cut two lengths of 0.5 mm silicone tubing.Slide one onto your mainline.Next slide on a size 12 swivel.Slide on second bit of silicone.Take a 1 inch length of bristle from a broom.Must be stiff not supple.Push the bristle through the swivel eye with the line running through.Now fix in place with the two bits of silicone tubing.Probably best to get the components and you will see how it is set up.
I know some use the power gum or pole elastic especially those on Tring but this is only required if you are fishing tiny hooks and light hooklengths.As I said dont overcomplicate what is a very effective rig and a safe one if set up as I have described.
Two hooks or one ?Michael T 3 is spot on. Matter for the individual but I dropped the second hook as it cost me fish at the netting point.Not lost fish at the net but time getting the second hook out of the landing net mesh I wasn't getting the bait back out during what can be very limited feeding periods in winter.When I did use two I noticed that practically every fish would come on the hook nearest to the feeder.Only on rare occasions and strangley during daylight did the top hook come into play.With the helicopter rig as above I now would slide the hooklength around to find the optimum position.As you should be re casting every twenty minutes or so this is not a problem.
Last mesage I said 1.75 ounce is the best feeder weight, in heavy undertows you may have to go up.I think from memory I have fished as much as three to keep position, just be careful playing the fish.It stil remains balanced bite wise as you will have to add weight to the bobbins too which is why I use bobbins (Solar) and take a few add on weights rather than swingers (modified Bob Hendersons).
For Tench and Bream I go in line by the way as a paternoster is not so good in weed.
Finally I like braid as a mainline but I do use a nylon leader.This acts as a shock absorber when playing fish under the rod tip.You wont get smashed up but hook pulls are eliminated (one in ten years)The mainline braid is 10lb the nylon shock leader is 6lb .I know it sounds crude but it is only one rig for certain situations.

 

[Bryan Baron 2]

Deecy might be a silly question but why the bristle does this aid the helicopter effect. Why not to beads held in place with stop knots.

Sounds interesting and i must give it a closer inspection later in the year.

 

[Deecy]

Sorry been away.I found that there was considerable pull required to shift either stop knots or float stops.So if you snapped off during a cast there was no way that a fish could rid itself of the rig plus feeder.With the bristle thing the bristle with easily pull out of the two bits of silicone.Also prior to the bristle being pushed into the silicone the swivel will ride over the silicone.That is why it is important to use the swivel size and silicone size as already stated.As there is no friction imparted by this little set up as there is with stop knots you canot damage the mainline.It is easy to move the position of the rig. Finally whilst playing a fish the rig will dismantle every time.This means the hooklength will slide down to the feeder which makes netting and playing through weed so much easier.And finally finally the bristle creates a small stiff section ensuring the helicopter effect works properly creating a virtually tangle free set up.
Sorry for late reply.

 

[Bryan Baron 2]

Cheers Deecy will check this rig out.