The shot locked Waggler Float

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)]

I want to resurrect this old controversy and put it to all of you who have interest.

About 16 years ago, **** Walker and Peter Stone had a ding dong debate about the efficacy of the waggler float. That is, the long float held at one end and locked on the line with shot.

Walker argued with a great deal of logic that the use of such floats was technically flawed and that it would be better to locate the float on the line using a device that did not help in cocking the float, nor would possibly damage the line when the float depth was adjusted.

Not only that, but the float could be made smaller and more sensitive by not having to carry the weight of locking shot.

I have been thinking a great deal about this, and am forced into thinking that Walker had a point, even though Stoney thought he was wrong.

It's worth debating however. Certainly there was disagreement on the subject from two of the most respected thinking anglers of their time.

What do you think?

 

[Graham Whatmore]

Afraid I am a waggler lover and don't understand that argument at all. A smaller float equals shorter range and as for the shot damaging the line the answer is simple. I don't use any locking shot on the line at all only the necessary droppers and I can move the waggler very easily with out moving shot. How?

Tie a loop of line about an inch long through the eye of the waggler and attach the locking shot to this. Using a bridge shaped waggler attachment, attached to the line with silicon tubing and simply put the loop under the waggler on this. Result, no shot to damage the line, its easily moved and it collapses flat.

Send **** round and I'll show him.

 

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)]

I understand what you are getting at Graham, but one of the arguements was why do you have to have weight at the end of the waggler at all?

Of course if you are using a self cocking float for fishing shallow or allowing the hook bait to fall slowly, it's a different matter.

 

[Graham Whatmore]

Ron, the waggler was invented reputedly by Ken Giles and Clive Smith for their all England match on the Severn when they represented the all conquering B'ham Anglers Assoc. and which they duly won.

This float was needed for long distance casting on the Severn which is, as you know, a wide river and they got to the fish that other teams couldn't get to and the waggler was born.

I know of no other float that you can cast with ease for such a distance as the waggler and the reason this can be done is that the weight is all in one place. You try spacing out the shot beneath the float and the result is a bird nest almost every time and less distance, as with top and bottom floats.

A waggler is a very sensitive float as well especially on a river, and controlling it on running water can be a difficult skill but with practice most anglers can master it.

 

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)]

That is a very good explanation Graham.

Another advantage with the waggler is because it is long, you can sink the line a fair way down, thus avoiding drag caused by wind and drift near the water's surface.

OK, we have one major advantage listed, that is the ability to fish sensitively at distance on a big river.

However for short range fishing on still water, the weighted waggler may be flawed.

 

[ED (The ORIGINAL and REAL one)]

I've never used locking shot with a waggler - I just use a piece of silicone float rubber on the line and push the bottom end of the float into that --if you want the float to collapse on the strike you just push the bottom end of the float in the bottom end of the float band

 

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)]

Good thinking Ed.

Now let's have more opinions.

 

[Terry D]

I know self-cocking wagglers with a weight in the bottom tend to sink deeper on the cast and they also seem to stay under the water longer when you stike and then wait for it to pop back up. Just a disadvantage with one type of waggler and it just isn't the same for a waggler with shot either side of it.

 

[Mark Wintle]

The waggler fished as we know it was around before the seventies and certainly wasn't invented by Smith and Giles who didn't win the '71 Severn National (Leicester did!). It seems more likely an Ashurst (Benny and Kevin) development, similar methods were in wide use on the fenland rivers in the 60s.

The great advantage of the locking shot method is that when fished right it should rarely tangle (1/2 inch gap between the shot helps) and it also casts and fishes better. Simplicity is the key. Loaded floats don't ride the water the same on moving water. Most of this comes from the immense amount of practice that has gone into waggler fishing in the last 40 years. If there was better way we'd all use it.

Peter Stone was alluding to a method that was (and still is) effective on the Thames from Oxford up where it isn't too wide ie within casting and feeding distance where skilful use of a waggler is used to present the bait tight against the far bank bushes for chub. The feeder hadn't taken over then so very accurate casting was required with very little shot down the line. Walker had no experience of this style. The waggler evolving on wider waters like the Trent and Severn was initially more for roach and dace but later for chub and barbel as well.

The float attachments described to me seem to impede casting and are prone to tangles. I've had the privilege of watching the finest waggler anglers (Palmer, Perry, Dean, Ashurst, Marks, Lane, Giles et al) and they all used the simple locking method; with today's Anchor double cut there is no problem damaging the line and you can always lock it onto very fine pole rubber.

 

[paul williams 2]

The flight of the bumble bee is technically flawed!

Come on Ron RW was wrong on this one!?

Didn't he also say at some time that even "heavy" floats could be made sensitive?........something to do with the amount of energy a fish needs to apply to move the said float when it is balanced? and isn't it another form of partial self hooking?

 

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)]

Other than the weighted Drennan "Puddle Chuckers" which I used with great effect for catching still water chub at distance on the Oxfordshire pits, I have no use for the weighted wagglers.

Most of my wagglers are either straight or insert peacock quill types.

I often use pole floats with a rod when I want somthing really sensitive by the way. I fasten them to the line by whipping a tiny loop of nylon at the bottom with fly tying silk. Then they are locked into position with two plastic stops.

One of the most deadly floats for laying on in moving water is the Lollipop float.

My friend Yoggy was able to see this float in action when we fished the King's Drain near Whittlesey last week. I caught several fish with it including a very good bream.

I have also caught lots of good roach from the Idle with the Lolly.

I am surprised more people don't use these floats. They truly are superb for laying on.

 

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)]

Heyup Brummie,

I started this thread to try and get at the truth. Peter Stone was a brilliant thinking angler. Walker told him on many occasions that he was a far better angler than he.

There is no doubt that Walker was wrong on occasions. He even admitted this too.

Walker was also wrong about the bolt rig. He once gave me a hard time in "The Carp" about the tight "bow string" paternoster bolt rig that I described there.

Yet this concept caught me scores of big carp in SA.

His only conclusion in a letter to me was that carp in SA were probably "different" to English carp.

Carp are carp as far as I am concerned.

Thank's for the input by the way Mark. Your's are very interesting comments.

 

[paul williams 2]

OK Ron.....but keep bringing em up, it brings out some great debate from some great anglers........and more and more are showing on FM!

FM is now the equivilent of the very best 70's fishing mags...but we can now voice an opinion!

And no i'm not brown nosing!

 

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)]

What I always thought was a terrible shame is that some of the top match anglers did not write more.

I know that Billy Lane in conjunction with Colin Graham produced a book on float fishing. Billy was a master float angler but couldn't get on with the leger.

I once watched Billy Lane fish the Witham in a match. He chucked a thundering great float, three quarters the way across the Witham with about an ounce of lead weighting it. He used a rod that many of us in the old Northern Specimen Group bought for tench fishing.

And he won the match too.

Many of the old Sheffield matchmen boggled at the "crude" tactics that Billy used.

 

[Graham Whatmore]

It was Giles and Smith and it was the early 60's because I've read the story many times written by Gilesy himself but maybe I have got the match mixed up, my memory isnt as good as it was. It could have been Cofton Hackett rather than BAA but I know for sure it was for a big match on the Severn.

The story of this was written up in Midland Angler by the B'ham Mail angling correspondent of about 50 years standing and was also referred to in the story of Kenny Giles fishing life by the man himself also in that paper.

 

[Richard Farrow]

If you want the float to collapse on the strike when using locking shot, leave a 1/2 -3/4 ins gap between the locking shot. Also as Mark said the shot of today is a lot kinder to line, as long as you open it up to move it. I love fishing the waggler on a still water sent to fish the bottom on the drop.

 

[Deanos]

Ron,
A few months ago (I am sure you raised the name) you mentioned
?Archie Braddock? in relation to bait flavouring, and how he was a pioneer in the field.
I would really like to know more about him, have you any info you could post?
A good debate on the Waggler float .

 

[Ric Elwin]

What's a waggler though? They were originally invented for slowish running water, they 'waggled' because they were fished overdepth, so the bait/ shot tripped bottom, causing the movement in the float.

If you think back to stillwater floats at the time (seventies) we had 'antenna' floats which were basically what we call stillwater wagglers today, although the antenna floats very often had a balsa body.

There were also 'zoomer' floats, which were larger weighted antenna floats. These were apparently designed to be fished top and bottom at range, in still conditions, with the line remaining on the surface rather than being deliberately sunk. Not often you can do that, I think this concept was one of fancy rather than being based on anything practical! There again, there was no reason you couldn't use a zoomer attached bottom end only, they didn't half cast well!

A waggler these days appears to be a generic term for any float that is not a pole float or specialist river float.

I still lock mine with shot. I don't worry about it, because my hooklength is always a lower breaking strain.

 

[Fred Blake]

Well, I'm going to go against all the rest of you (Ron excepted) and state that the conventional waggler/locking shot is an abomination 90 percent of the time.

I'll start by explaining when it does work. This is when you are attempting to catch fish which are feeding up in the water. How often that is depends on what sort of fish you are after; for me, it's only when I am specifically trying to catch roach or rudd from lakes in summer - and only then when I know they are not feeding on the bottom - or when fishing the far bank of a canal.

In any other situation I'll be fishing for tench, bream, carp, crucians or roach, and expecting them to be feeding on or very close to the bottom. Now I cannot see the logic of chucking out a rig which means the bait takes up to thirty seconds to reach the bottom, just on the off chance that a stunted roach might grab the bait on the way down.

OK, you can put a bulk shot three feet or so from the hook to speed things up, but then the old argument about a concentrated weight for casting starts to look a bit shaky. Using a heavier float so the locking shot is at least 75 percent of the total is one way round the problem; I prefer to fix a peacock quill straught to the line with a wide tight fitting float band and put almost all the shot a couple of feet or so from the hook, with just a single tell tale below. The weight of the float is tiny by comparison, so the bulk of the weight is still concentrated for casting.

Once you start fishing this way other advantages start to leap out and grab you. You can use a smaller float for a start. The whole set-up is much more stable and resists drift far better. You can cast close up to weedbeds, trees, lilies or whatever and the shot will land first, taking the bait straight down; the float will tend to slide across the surface before cocking directly above the shot rather than pull the bait away from where you want it to go.

Finally, should the fish begin to feed higher in the water you can slide the bulk shot up under the float and achieve the same effect as with locking shot.

Sometimes I think anglers must want to complicate things.

 

[Ron 'The Hat' Clay (ACA-Life Member)]

You have brought up some very good points Fred.

I think what is called the "waggler float" was conceived for a certain style of fishing, ie: long range float fishing on slow moving rivers where you want the hookbait to fall slowly.

If you want to fish close in on still waters and to get the bait down to the bottom quickly then a shot locked waggler is not only unnecessary it's inefficient. It certainly is useless if you want to use the lift method which is so deadly for tench and roach at time.

Most of my own float fishing is done with the express intention of getting the bait down quickly for the odd biggie on the bottom.