England's most famous coarse fishing river....?

[Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC)]

Originally Posted by Ron The Hat Clay

I sat and counted single pieces of gravel last year in 12 foot depths last year in one section of the tidal river.

The day must have flew by.....

[markg]

I would say the Thames is the most famous per say but, in angling the Hampshire Avon probably. The Kennet could be in with a shout though. It must depend a bit on where you live to some extent.

[Ron The Hat Clay]

When talking of healthy rivers, there are those who have the notion that because a river can produce on odd occasions a huge fish, say a massive barbel, it must be a healthy river.

Well I don't think so.

A truly healthy river will hold a large variety of fish of different sizes, proving that young fish will replace old big fish as they die off, and die off they will, before their time too; especially if some nasty angler occasionally sticks hooks in their gobs.

---------- Post added at 01:55 ---------- Previous post was at 01:48 ----------

There was a most interesting article in Coarse Angling Today where the problem of the lack of barbel in the county of Oxfordshire was discussed. There was a time when there were lots of barbel in the Upper Thames, and in the Cherwell and Windrush too.

Not now.

Maybe an odd very big fish has been caught. But where are the younger fish which normally would replace these whoppers (this whopper more like)?

---------- Post added at 02:32 ---------- Previous post was at 01:55 ----------

Originally Posted by markg

The Kennet could be in with a shout though. It must depend a bit on where you live to some extent.

But the Upper Kennet is running dry!

[Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC)]

Originally Posted by Ron The Hat Clay

But the Upper Kennet is running dry!

Making it even more famous due to ongoing publicity

[watatoad]

Originally Posted by Ron The Hat Clay

Yes the Warwickshire Avon mate, not the Hampshire Avon.

To most coarse anglers the Hampshire Avon is the most famous due to its barbel. (That bloody species again!) But please remember the barbel are not native to this river, they were initially stocked into the Dorset Stour, and some of them made their way into the Avon. The stock came from the Thames and Kennet.

In later years the Trent suffered from terrible pollution due mainly to inefficient sewage treatmant and filth from the Potteries. The Trent experts, led by FWK Wallis, travelled to Christchurch where they utilised the lessons they had learned on the Trent to catch Avon Barbel.

Their catches were fabulous culminating in Wallis' capture of the barbel record of 14lb 6 oz which was equal to Tryon's and Wheelers records.

Everyone is entitled to his opinion on which was England's most famous coarse fishing river. Today, the Trent is certainly the BEST of England's rivers if not the most famous. One only has to look at the catches of people like John Shucksmith or Lee Swords to see why.

As regards barbel, I would say that there are more barbel in a mile of the Trent than what are in all the rivers of England put together, There is a famous spot on the Tidal Trent where on a calm summer's morning one can watch as literally hundreds of barbel and other species too, roll in the current.

I know but we are talking about most famous and the Avon relating to Stratford will be known by millions of people most of whom don't even fish. Yet both have fish in so its just the name rather than the river which I am referring to although I agree with you fully so far as the fishing goes.

[markg]

But the Upper Kennet is running dry![/QUOTE]

I suppose I am thinking of rivers that have had fame and the amount of fame thrust on them in my life time Ron. every one has a different take on this but, it appears the amount of record/ big fish is the biggest attribute. The press latch on and word of mouth etc. The Avon and the Kennet have or did receive a lot of publicity once. I think some of that will still resonate with a lot of anglers of a certain age. But, it has changed a lot in recent years. Your bit about the Trent is more about fishing styles and the anglers that developed them. Don't take offense and I am probably a philistine but, I have not heard of them but, I have heard of N day who caught the record chub in the Avon and Redmire Pool for the record carp. This is what gives a water fame; wrongly perhaps but, that seems to happen more often or not.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Ron The Hat Clay

Today, the Trent is certainly the BEST of England's rivers

"BEST" in what sense ?

>Best in terms of fish density ? …nope Thames Steve posted on another thread the Thames has in fish surveys got more fish per m3 than the Trent.

>Best in terms of size of fish ? …nope, even you alluded to the fact the Thames has more chance than the Trent of throwing up an extra larger whopper

>Best in terms of variety of fish species ? …sorry no again…Thames has more recorded fish species than any other river in England.


So the Trent has less variety, smaller fish and less fish than the Thames. Its also less famous, as everyone on this thread apart from you agrees. So it does beg the question the Trent is “BEST” how ?

....Perhaps you mean best in the head of Ron Clay ? …well yes, in that case I would be inclined to agree with you. There it is best by cearly a very long way...

[Jeff Woodhouse]

Originally Posted by Ron The Hat Clay

I sat and counted single pieces of gravel last year in 12 foot depths last year in one section of the tidal river.

How many did you get to?

Bet we have more gravel in the Thames!

Originally Posted by Ron The Hat Clay

When talking of healthy rivers,

But here you are simply asking for the 'most famous' of rivers, not the healthiest, not the clearest (where you can count gravel), and not the best stocked now. Simple answer - the Thames is the most FAMOUS! End of.

[simon dunbar]

The question was most famous COARSE FISHING river , surely it must be the Hampshire Avon , many old angling books mention it , many famous anglers fished on it , many people still drive miles to fish it. Not just famous for large Barbel , but also some of the biggest river Pike were caught at the Royalty , a few years ago now maybe , but I don't think the Warwickshire Avon has the same sort of history....

[The bad one]

[QUOTE=Ron The Hat Clay;1131585]
A truly healthy river will hold a large variety of fish of different sizes, proving that young fish will replace old big fish as they die off, and die off they will, before their time too;
[QUOTE]
Errr well no not really Ron! Fish are a the top of the life pyramid. A healthy river starts at the bottom with it single cell organisms and the breadth of assemblage. And I'm not sure that breadth is that great on the Trent.
It might at the moment have good stocks mid and lower regions but the upper has serious problems.
The Dove, Walton's river, is suffering from barbel stock recruitment, very few smaller fish in the 1-3 lb bracket are in the river, what fish are there are larger fish.
The same situation is happening on the upper Burton and above. And the water quality is much better up this end than the mid/lower near the source which is purer.
Sour same situation.
This in time will creep down the river and impact on those lower regions.

Enjoy it whilst it lasts because within the next 20 years the creep is going to come.