Club Bailiffs and thier Rights

[Eeluslf Uslf]

Hi all,
My local Angling Club has stated in the press that they will be checking the permits and confiscating anyones tackle if found fishing without a permit.
The water is in a Public Park of which the lease is given to the angling club for thier own control.
How does the normal club baliff stand within the law?

 

[John Pleasance]

Bailiffs appointed by an angling club have very wide ranging powers which could well include confiscation of tackle.

It's covered under Section 36(i) of the Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries act of 1975 (may have been updated by now)


"A bailiff can be either employed by a water Authority or on a permanent basis by a fishery owner or club.........blah......... blah....... blah...............accordingly he may sieze and detain anything liable to be siezed for contravention of the Act, e.g. fishing tackle."

Employed on a permanent basis may be a debatable point but they can do almost anything.

I can't imagine you are planning to fish without a permit, so you must be thinking of baillifing, I'd suggest you get a copy of the Act from the water authority or maybe the club should have one for reference.

 

[Keith Manger]

Most waters are signposted if private or if permits are required so the best advice is don't poach in the first place. and buy a licence.

However;I thought that you have to have a police constable present to consfiscate tackle, or written authority stating his/her right to confiscate your tackle.
Otherwise anyone wearing a bailifs badge (freely available from car boot sales, shops etc.) could just steal tackle from people fishing without a permits.

If anyone tries to consficate your tackle; make sure that you see his authorisation to confiscate your tackle, make sure that you have a witness, write his full name address etc. down, take a photo of him if you have your camera and if still not sure insist on a police constable being present.

otherwise don't give him your tackle.

 

[Eeluslf Uslf]

thanks for the replies.
First, may I sure you that I always carry a rod licence and always know what fishing permits that are neccessary to allow me access to any fishery.
The problem has come about because local young people have taken up fishing and are enjoying the local public park lake. It is that the appointed baliffs are picking on certain size of the young anglers, anyone older are left alone. The anglers concerned have asked me about the legal right about the tackle being taken away. So to insure that I give them the right answer, I thought I turn to the forum and see what advice I gain from the service.
Thanks once again to those who have taken the time to reply.
Eel out.

 

[EC]

My mate is a brief, he says he wouldnt like to have to defend a bailiff doing what you describe unless they were EA bailiffs with the police etc etc, but that was a while ago it may have all changed by now!

 

[Richard Drayson]

If your local angling club has stated that they will be checking permits and confiscating tackle then there should be no excuses.
Perhaps you could suggest to the bailiffs that signs be put up advising anglers of the necessary rules etc, especially considering that it's a public park lake.

 

[Paul Thompson]

Chaps, seeing as this is my line of work (policing, that is), I'll have a look into this one and see if I can find any hard and fast rules, regarding seizure of tackle etc, by bailiffs. Its one thing I've never been called upon to do, but theres always a first...

 

[Alan Roe]

This is posted at the request of Martin James.

I think you will find that only bailiffs appointed by the Environment Agency under the SAFFA 1975 can confiscate tackle. Water bailiffs appointed by angling clubs are in effect river or water watchers. His powers are only those of an ordinary citizen and much less than a water bailiff. The law doesn't give the river or water watcher the same status as that of the water bailiff. Any rod licence holder or club member can ask another person to show his or her rod licence or club card. A water keeper or watcher may make an arrest without warrant, anyone who is in the act of committing such an arrestable offence.You need to make sure you really do have right on your side otherwise you may be you in court on a charge of assault and damages for personal injury and/or wrongful arrest. If you have a problem call the EA bailiff or the police. Be very careful when dealing with offenders.If someone wants your tackle get the police unless they are EA bailiffs then ask for his warrant. I hope this helps. An excellent book for all angling club officials, water/river watchers is Angling & The Law Peter Carty & Simon Payne published by Merlin Unwin Martin James

 

[John Pleasance]

You'll be in for a lot of reading then Paul,there's the Water Act, The Salmon & Freshwater Fisheries Act and the Theft Act also comes into play when any illegal fishing is involved.

 

[John Pleasance]

A bailiff can be either employed by a Water Authority or on a permanent basis by a fishery owner or club(in which case they are more accurately called wardens).

A Water bailiff's main duty is the enforcement of the 1975 Act.

Section 36(i) of the 1975 SAFFA gives a water bailiff the powers of a police constable having all a constable's powers privileges and liabilities.

Water authority bailiffs are authorised by the water authority to enter onto any land for the purpose of preventing any offence under the act.

A bailiff may stop and search any boat or fishing vessel used,or any vehicle which he has reasonable cause to suspect of containing illegally caught fish, illegal equipment such as nets or illegal containers.

Accordingly he may seize and detain anything liable to be seized for contravention of the Act,e.g. fishing tackle.

All of the above is quoted from the 1975 Act,there is yards of it, please don't make me type any more of it.They can confiscate your tackle,the only debatable point with a club bailiff would be if he is employed by the club on a permanent basis as mentioned in the first paragraph above.

 

[Mike Parker]

I think someone actually needs to look up the difinition of baliff under the '75 Act.

I don't think that club baliffs would fall under the this definition as they do not have authority under a Crown Warrant and therefore would not have the authority or power to search/sieze tackle etc. unless given permission by the 'victim'

Any private Baliff wanting to search/sieze any of my tackle would be arrested by me for using behavior likely to cause a breach of the peace (under the 1372 Act wich makes it an arrestable offence) There i know I have the authority!!!!

 

[Keith Williams]

Just to add some clarity to what a private/club bailiff can do if he wishes to carry out the instructions of his club or fishery owner, Be warned it is extremely dangerous legal territory for a private person to contemplate a search of any individual or make any examination or seize equipment unless that person is authorised in writing by specific legislation.
Club Keepers can ask for membership cards and or ensure that club rules only are being observed and nothing more in reality.
The only exception is where a licence holder produces his licence to another angler and can ask to see another anglers licence by virtue of section 35 (2) and should an angler refuse such a request, then an absolute offence is committed.
The only authorised persons who can carry out the task of searching or making any examination or seizure formally IS a Water bailiff (Fishery Inspector) appointed by the Environment Agency and or on behalf of the Minister of Fisheries and a Police Constable under powers deemed and granted by Sections 31 and 36 of the Salmon & Freshwater Fisheries Act 1975 and such authorised persons are defined by section 41 of the Act.
A person can only be arrested by these officers for illegal fishing at night under section 34 ( presently being reviewed)
As Mike Parker stated, such an action could lead to a " Breach of the Peace" and the offending searcher/examiner may well end up, not only injured but later arrested having committed a whole bin load of offences whilst having breached an individuals " Human Rights"
The impact of such an action may well be tested in the criminal courts after the event, however the follow on in the Civil court would be inevitable and the financial consequences for a controlling club/syndicate if found culpable would be devastating if not ruinous.
The Moral of this warning is - all angling clubs should consult a legal advisor before arming an poorly advised angler to do a job that is a minefield waiting to go up like a mexican wave.
The best advice that can be given is, if you see what you suspect is someone committing a fishery offence, then ring the EA at the telephone number on the rod licence and ask for bailiffs to attend ASAP, if people are removing fish, then call the police as well and give them as much information as possible about cars, numbers of people involved etc, The Police can then deal with the matter as an incident within the meaning of The Theft Act 1968.
Another offence that rears it's head very often is the one of Angler Apathy, it's not legislated for but so many guy's breach it by ignoring problems_ " Enough Said !!"

 

[Mike Parker]

Blimey Keith,
That is extremely well put, so well put in fact that you must be
a) A Solicitor (not CPS)
b) A EA Baliff
c) A lecturer in Law or 'Fisheries'
d) (and i know this one is true) a really nice guy to state a difficult subject so clearly and participate in the forum

You summed it up so well, thankyou.

 

[John Pleasance]

Unfortunately Mike the law is never as simple as that,the Theft act also covers this to a certain extent where it says:

"Any person may arrest without warrant anyone who is or whom he with reasonable cause, suspects to be committing an offence under subparagraph (1) above,and may seize from any person who is,or whom he with reasonable cause ,suspects to be committing any offenceunder this paragraph anything which on that persons conviction of the offence would be liable to be forfeited under subparagraph(3)above"

Subpara (1) deals with "taking fish" which in the eyes of the law just means fishing not necessarily with intent to take them away.This covers the period from one hour after sunset to one hour before sunrise.

If the offence is committed during the daytime then process may be applied for but you may still seize equipment or tackle as this will facilitate any such order made by a court.

Subpara(3) says that the court may order the forfeiture of anything which at the time of the offence, he had with him for use for taking fish.

 

[Kevan Farmer]

Eel. Regardless of the legalities involved, whoever the club bailiff is he/she is a bully. Why? Because he/she is targetting only specific individuals. Now I would imagine that in this day and age if this person were taken to court for confiscating one persons fishing gear they would be in lumber because they were totally ignoring others. Besides which they are patently not doing the job that the club has entrusted to them.

Probably the safest thing to do, with regard to staying within the law and for the health and safety of the 'bailiff' concerned, would be to politely ask anybody breaking the rules to either comply or leave. Never get into an argument - this is where physical contact could occur and the likelihood of an assault accusation. I would have thought that the next step to dealing with none compliance of fishery rules would then be to request the assistance of a police officer. I do not know what the legalities would be for this however as it may be deemed a civil offence.

Personally, I request proper credentials when I visit a day ticket water where the bailiff is 'supposed' to patrol and give out tickets. It is not unheard of for oiks to go around asking for day ticket money when they are nothing to do with the controlling club.

Kevan

 

[Chris Vardy]

<newbie post>
Years ago I was a ranger and then a bailiff for Leisure Sport at Attenborough (large gravel pits/nature reserve). As a ranger we could ask to see licences (as could/can any member) and help with the general upkeep but nothing else.

If they refused we had to go get a bailiff who had the right to ask that person to leave if they did not have a licence.

As bailiffs we could tell them to leave the water immediately. The head bailiff advised us to call the police if they refused (from the callbox in the village).

Most people were agreeable and produced licences or left. Only once did I encounter someone who refused. I told them that I would be back in half an hour and that if they were still there I would call the police. They had gone by the time I had returned.

The question is though... Would the police actually come if asked?

IMHO the bailiff described in the original post is either bogus or should be relieved of his position.

Are bailiffs still volunteers and would that affect the legal position of the bailiff?

</newbie post>

 

[Neil Wayte]

As a RMC bailiff we were recently called to a do a night patrol on a certain water.We had been in formed that certain people were leaving their rods out and going to the pub.Before we left a paid memeber of the RMC staff had to contact the local police to tell them what was happening and that if the tackle was found fishing it's self that we would be removing the tackle from the lake.
This was obviously done to keep us within the letter of the law.
Maybe this sheads some light on the problem.

 

[Chris Vardy]

What did the police say or do Neil?

More to the point;what kind of irresponsible idiot goes to the pub and leaves their tackle at the bankside let alone in the water!

Incredible.

 

[Keith Williams]

Leaving tackle in a state of fishing with baited hooks unattended in the water IS a Fisheries offence and SHOULD have been notified to the Environment Agency at the time !
The Club I belong to will always call for EA Bailiff assistance as they know the police would be flying blind through lack of fisheries legislative knowledge when they arrive.
To actually remove someones tackle without lawful authorised consent, the private bailifs themselve may well have committed an offence of obstruction, having thwarted a legitimate legal investigation.
When will some guy's get it right and follow the correct guidlines and get advice from the people who know their subject ie solicitors and EA Bailiffs - No wonder offenders are always getting away with their activities. Grrrrrrr !

 

[Chris Vardy]

The clubs should give training and guidelines to their bailiffs about what they can and can't do.

Maybe the EA should make a set available?