Pole floats...something of a mystery..

Tee-Cee

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First of all let me make it clear I am not a Pole man in any way, shape or form. In it's modern form I have never used one but I do fully realise they have a valuable place in our sport
My interest, as far as this Thread is concerned, (and as an avid maker of floats for all situations outside of Pole fishing), is the mechanics of the various Pole floats on the market, why they are the shape they are and what benefits they offer over 'normal floats' in a given situation.
I am very aware of (most) of the vagaries and designs of standard floats and obviously many of these factors also apply to pole floats but I still have some trouble with the general principle of most pole floats having a 'body' seemingly halfway up the float (unless it's just to take the 'side' eye?), or at least on those that I've seen in shops and on video clips etc.

The pole float has obviously been developed to it's current form for a reason but a definite line seems to exist between them and standard floats in general use and (seemingly !) they don't cross the boundaries in fishing. Generally speaking I never see a pole float used with a 14' match rod nor do I see an 'Avon' (in the extreme) used with a Pole.
Not to say it doesn't happen but I don't see it !!

In principal the pole float normally will sit in the water directly below the end of the Pole itself ( although from watching Simon of Crabtree fame recently) I noted this is not always the case as from time to time the float is some distance from the Pole tip....(??) so I understand the line needs to run vertically from rod tip to hook (where possible) so the Pole man is in direct contact with the baited hook and bites are easily hit.

Anyway, as I say, being a float maker I am interested to hear about why the pole float is like it is (sometimes loaded?) and why, in principal at least, why they cannot be used with running line tackle. For example, if I am fishing directly under my 14' rod tip, why would a pole float not be a better choice and if it is why do I never see them on running line tackle ?

Yes, I know nothing is really 'fixed' in fishing and everyone can integrate bits from one style of fishing into another but pole floats seem to live in a world apart and I would like to hear why this is....................

As likely as not most of my questions could probably be answered were I to spend time watching different Pole men in action but I don't see them enough to make any form of clear judgement so this Thread is really to see if introducing pole floats into my running line fishing could have benefits, in certain situations, which might help presentation.....

Perhaps I need to buy a book..............!!
 
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peter crabtree

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The basic principle is you don't need casting weight on a pole rig thus enabling the pole angler to use ultralight floats for maximum sensitivity..
I also use heavier pole floats 1gr+ on running line. Not much different to a top and bottom float really. As with all floats their purpose is bite indication innit?
You should try one on your lake Tony, although you may find the silicone tubing a bit fiddly. Have a look at some pre- tied pole rigs in your local shop.
I'd suggest a 0.75gram rig for instance....
 

greenie62

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Hi Tee-Cee,
Good questions - something I've often pondered and even experimented with.

why they cannot be used with running line tackle. For example, if I am fishing directly under my 14' rod tip, why would a pole float not be a better choice and if it is why do I never see them on running line tackle ?

If you are fishing 'pole-style' - under the rod tip - it's bob-on as a choice - BUT on running-line you often vary where you are fishing the bait - by several yards some times and this is where you stop fishing 'pole-style' and the control of line and float becomes more of a focus particularly if there's any wind! Mending line with a pole-float can be problematic due to its lack of weight and resistance to the water - so often can fly into the nearest bush!:eek:

The other big problem is changing float - running-line float-rigs often use an adapter for quick change of float - generally these are incompatible with pole floats - which usually use a complete change of rig - something anathema to running line anglers.

Generally I think the difference is tied-up with flexibility of running line tackle and is due to our roots in river fishing / trotting as opposed to canal / stillwater fishing.

Could be a good thread this! ;):thumbs:
 

dangermouse

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Score another one for using a pole float with a running line. It`s something I`ve used quite often on the canal and my club pond. Conditions have to be right and it does restrict your range somewhat but it does work very well.
 

sam vimes

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Pole floats can be used on running lines. I'll happily use them under the tip on stillwaters and I'll happily trot with the more specialised running water designs. The biggest problem with pole floats on running lines is that most are too light to cast any distance. Providing you accept that limitation, or search out more specialised and heavy designs, pole floats can be excellent on a running line.
 

Lord Paul of Sheffield

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I use a pole float on a rod when fishing in the margins - the short length of the pole float enables me to fish very shallow margin depth for carp late on in the day as the carp move in to the margins
 

Tee-Cee

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So, and this is to all those above who use them on a running line, just how do you choose which one to use ? Obviously (or is it?) you must need to choose a bigger one with running line to give you some sort of casting power even if you are dropping it close to the rod tip and probably more so if fishing deeper water.
I regularly fish for roach close in and in water up to 10' deep (but more in the 6/8' range), sometimes with a very light bait and sometimes with something a little heavier such a paste which can settle the float lower in the water so I'm wondering how much flexibility is available with pole float size to deal with this sort of scenario.

What I will do is take up Simon's advice a have a look at some pre-tied rigs although at this moment in time I have absolutely no idea what 0,75gm pole float looks like !! In fact I do have some pole floats at home so once I have an idea on size I may well try these as well......

I'm still not sure I understand the pole float design which, unless I'm mistaken, all seem to comprise a straight, thin section with a 'body' about halfway along. Even the need for weighted floats seems odd although these are probably for extra stability in roughish water (?).

I also note Lord Paul talks of fishing 'very shallow margins' for carp; Sounds okay BUT how do you choose a float for something as specialised as that ?

The Pole length, elastic strength etc I follow, but the bit from float down is something I need to take more advice on........................or read some books !!


ps I'm hoping other regular Pole folk take the trouble to post as I'm sure other 'running line' fishermen could also benefit from another possibility to improve catches.............For sure I will be putting some effort into improving my knowledge !!


pps As far as video clips/ books are concerned who would offer the best simple advice among the top match chaps ??


My thanks to all those who've posted so far...
 
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laguna

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I saw only yesterday a pole float (A body up pole float) used for trotting and holding back! now that's an intriguing concept....

I have many pole floats (probably 100 or more) plus another 500+ sticks, avons, quills, wagglers etc, I collect floats, its an obsession I also make conventional floats for personal use using traditional methods on my lathe but I mostly prefer to use a running line for the kind of venues I fish.
The idea of a pole float is to minimise weight as they don't need to be cast and can be precisely placed, restricted only by the length of the pole. Saying that; I dont actually possess a pole (hate the shipping in/out business) but I do use pole floats on a whip, I also use them when fishing close quarters on rod and reel for swing to hand situations in the margins.
 

Lord Paul of Sheffield

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So, and this is to all those above who use them on a running line, just how do you choose which one to use ? Obviously (or is it?) you must need to choose a bigger one with running line to give you some sort of casting power even if you are dropping it close to the rod tip and probably more so if fishing deeper water.
I regularly fish for roach close in and in water up to 10' deep (but more in the 6/8' range), sometimes with a very light bait and sometimes with something a little heavier such a paste which can settle the float lower in the water so I'm wondering how much flexibility is available with pole float size to deal with this sort of scenario.

What I will do is take up Simon's advice a have a look at some pre-tied rigs although at this moment in time I have absolutely no idea what 0,75gm pole float looks like !! In fact I do have some pole floats at home so once I have an idea on size I may well try these as well......

I'm still not sure I understand the pole float design which, unless I'm mistaken, all seem to comprise a straight, thin section with a 'body' about halfway along. Even the need for weighted floats seems odd although these are probably for extra stability in roughish water (?).

I also note Lord Paul talks of fishing 'very shallow margins' for carp; Sounds okay BUT how do you choose a float for something as specialised as that ?

The Pole length, elastic strength etc I follow, but the bit from float down is something I need to take more advice on........................or read some books !!


ps I'm hoping other regular Pole folk take the trouble to post as I'm sure other 'running line' fishermen could also benefit from another possibility to improve catches.............For sure I will be putting some effort into improving my knowledge !!


pps As far as video clips/ books are concerned who would offer the best simple advice among the top match chaps ??


My thanks to all those who've posted so far...


I use a Dibbler float https://www.google.ws/search?q=dibb...forum%2Ftopic.asp%3FTOPIC_ID%3D129293;800;476

If I'm using paste under a pole float a little further out then a float with a long bristle top so I can watch the tip - if the paste comes off the tip rises
 

ravey

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I'm led to believe that Graham Marsden and Mark Wintle put together a rather good book on pole fishing which would be worth sourcing. Going back considerably further, I can recommend 'My way With the Pole' by Tommy Pickering.

As I see it, pole floats are employed when stationed near the pole or rod tip, or when the flow makes greater lengths of line necessary/advantageous. As already mentioned, there is no casting as such, as all the weight that a pole float takes is purely to effect the presentation, overcoming depth/tow/flow etc. Presentation and sensitivity are the greatest advantages that the pole offers - within the limits of length and wind conditions.

A bit of reading and maybe watching a good angler (and maybe asking a few questions) will provide plenty of answers.
 

bennygesserit

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there are a lot of variations some no doubt to catch the angler rather than the fish , who can resist getting a couple of floats when you are picking up bait etc.

The biggest variation really is in bouyancy , fishing positively in the margins i.e. with a greater amount of shot on is supposed to stop the bait wafting about too much.

There is a massive variation in material aswell.

I had a tall thin float that I used all the time no idea why it was that shape though.
 

Tee-Cee

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Well, for me, and probably many other anglers who have never given thought to pole floats used with running line plus the fundamentals of design, I think that just about covers all the basics Sam, so thanks for that !

Talking of 'lazy' ; I just want to make it clear that I too would probably have found all the info in Sam's post, had I looked, but as with many others of mine I try to put up Threads that will help newer anglers along with old duffers such as I, or at least make them think - and I believe this one has done that..
I shall print off the necessary for some light bedtime reading........................

Good stuff Sam..
 
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