Line enbedment - fixed spool reels

[Tee-Cee]

Just put some new 10lb line on a Shimano 'baitrunner' reel, filled to the lip, more or less.

First few outings absolutely fine, with the baitrunner working well. Yesterday and today, slightly different as the BR starts to work but then stops as the fish eject the bait (as far as I can tell!). Tried pulling some line from the reel in BR mode and the coils of line (seem) to be caught or trapped by adjacent coils. In other words the BR, even on it's 'loosest' setting, is not moving freely....

I did cast out some distance and retrieve slowly with very little resistance on the line and this did the trick for the next two fish....I have also tried a loop of line pulled from the reel under bobbin tension, as a sort of 2nd bite indicator, which allows the fish to move distance before feeling any resistance, but fishing close to big snags means this is not a great solution............

Anyway, my obvious question is, what causes 'line embedment'....Is it some fault with the reel (very small spool dia), the heavy line, the use of the BR, or an amalgamation of these and other factors....
I don't feel it is anything to do with the loading as the BR works just fine initially, and TBH it is not a problem that cannot be solved on the bank as a temporary measure, BUT I would like to hear from anyone who has experienced such, or has any idea of how to minimise it, if not cure it !!!


ps The ledger weights are 1/2oz/3/4oz max so cannot see this as part od the issue - could be wrong though......

 

[peter crabtree]

You may try cleaning your line by casting out then cable tie a towel soaked in washing up liquid, with the line sandwiched in, just above the lowest eye on your rod.
Slowly reel in and your line should be clean of surface grease.

If that fails try a different brand of line...

PS. Why are you using 10lb line?

 

[binka]

What brand of line did you load Tee-Cee and how tightly did you load it?

This problem has driven me to distraction in the past and because I always load my reels under quite a heavy tension I came to the conclusion that some brands, which are known for their elasticity such as Maxima, were slowly stretching after a period of time on the spool which in turn made their diameter thinner and allowed for "play" between the line lay where newly laid line under pressure could then bed in.

I could be wrong though and it could just be as simple as the pressure of the fish you're playing is greater than the pressure of which the line was loaded or is laying after previous use and making the line bed in, especially after use where retrieving gear will lay the line nowhere near as tight as the underlying coils it's sitting on before then being loaded right up again when a decent fish comes along.

Like you say a cast and retrieve easily frees things back up and solves the problem but it can be annoying.

If it's the latter you'll just have to catch smaller fish

 

[sam vimes]

Sounds like a case of too little tension on the underlying line to me. When that happens, if further line goes onto the spool, especially if it's under greater tension, it tends to force the underlying strands apart and bed in. I suspect that, rather than being no issue, your relatively light leger weights (for 10lb line) will be a big contributary factor. The line lay of the reel may also be playing a part.

I'd be putting a heavier leger weight (even better, a spin doctor, baitrunners usually introduce a lot of twist) on once in a while, casting as far as you can and then retrieving. The heavier weight should give greater tension and reduce the potential for subsequent bedding in.

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

Line tension sounds like to me, to Loose,but you can also put the line on to tight. I did this with a couple of 5000 shimano spools. It seemed fine for a while. Then i hooked into a fish, within seconds the spool just seem to explode.

The same thing happened to the second spool also.

I now just let the tackle shop fill the spools on their machine in the shop. I pick and pay for the line i want, they fill the spools, free of charge.

I would go along the same lines and use a spin Doctor to try and resolve the problem. If that doesn't work, and you have a spare rod and reel at home, try this.

Set up the spare rod and reel, butt section only. Then do them same with the rod and reel you were fishing with. Thread the line through the rings of the butt section on your fishing rod, and through the rings of the spare rod, and tie the line onto the spare reel. Then wind all the line, plus backing onto the spare reel. Once this is done, set the clutch on the spare reel so it has some tension. You then simply reel the line back onto the reel you have taken the line off. The tension on the spare reel should give you a nice smooth line lay, and an even tension to all the backing and line.

Good luck.

 

[Tee-Cee]

Thanks for the replies....

First of all the line strength; I'm fishing very much in a 'hit and hold' spot, not that far out, but very close to overhanging branches of a tree, hence the minimal weight to cast. I have tried heavier but it really isn't necessary (?). On connection the fish try to run beyond the tree, and lighter line, which I've tried, just doesn't last as it can become frayed where it passes other snags in the water. I know it sounds a bit hairy and 'why not fish elsewhere' is an answer, but it yields me very good fish as they are comfortable under the tree. (I catch more than most...)

Yes, I do use Maxima, (Binka may well have a point on the subject of stretch) I do use a spin doctor, and I do put the new line on over tape to cover the existing line so it loads onto a 'flat' surface. I'm loathe to use a different make of line BUT if the one I'm using can be bettered I would change. Any suggestions ???

Sam Vimes's suggestion of using a heavier weight may well be the answer as it must, to a certain extent, tension the line more as it loads and this (I've been doing the opposite!) might help, although I also have to say the line, when bringing in a fish, is under terrific pressure because of the tactic of 'hit & hold'
I also use the John Wilson method of stretching the (new) line slightly prior to use which helps to some extent.....

Unfortunately, I don't have the facility of line loading in my tackle shop (never even seen this!!) as suggested by Ray. I only wish this was the case as I hate the whole process of putting on new line !!

Peter...I have some proprietary substance for line cleaning (which I never use because I don't think of it !) but the washing up liquid trick could help as well. I think 'Walker' made me aware of this donkey's years ago but one forgets these things...

As I said, I can 'overcome' the issue as and when, but of course it's not always easy to know it's 'bedded' in the first place. Also, some of the reason of introducing this Thread is to make other (less experienced?) anglers aware of this possible 'problem' and all the above answers should help them as well as me !!!

So, line type?? What would you use in this situation ??


Oh, and thanks for the suggestions!

 

[law]

I assume you filled the reel correctly? As in, had the line coming off the correct side of the spool?
I always fill my reels under slight tension and over fill them a tad, then go to the field behind the house and cast a lead a couple of times to fully settle the line.

But it sounds to me like you havent filled it under enough tension.

 

[S-Kippy]

Yep.....sounds like line tension to me too,exacerbated by maybe too much depth of line on the spool for hit and hold tactics. Much as I dislike Shimano reels they are not known for poor line lay so I doubt its that and it ought to be clearly visible if it was. I ditched Maxima years ago but thinking back it was prone to going a bit sticky as I recall. I wouldn't swap a brand you're happy with....try reloading under a bit more tension after a few big chucks with a spin doctor.

If that doesn't work chuck the Shimanos in the bin and get some proper reels !

 

[Tee-Cee]

The general consensus of opinion seems to be around the tension factor so I shall have a few cast with the spin doctor and see how I get on...Should that not work I will reload all the line under more tension.

Chuck out my Shimano's - perish the thought !! You'll be telling me next to buy some Daiwa's !!

...but seriously though; I do sometimes have the thought of looking at the Daiwa range but that's as far as I get and TBH I wouldn't know where to start.....

Thanks once again for the guidance..

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

I don't think its the line Tee Cee, and as Skippy said, why change a line you are happy with.

There are so many lines on the market now, ( if your thinking of changing ) where do you start.

You could try the Drennen double strength, but i still use Maxima on a couple of spools, never had a problem with it.

I would go along with Skippy, ditch the shimano's mg: , i did, best thing i ever did.

 

[Tee-Cee]

Ray.....Trouble is, as one gets older one tends to stick with what they know, and form silly attachments to things...like Aero GT 's which are well out of date I suppose?

Never actually looked at Daiwa - do they have a 'baitrunner' type gismo ??

 

[Phil Adams]

Keep your Aero's.....or make a small fortune on ebay. Still some of the best reels you can get.

Apart from the Exceler I wouldn't recommend a Daiwa. They all seem so cheap and plasticy.

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

Never had a problem with any Diawa reels, but have had 2 shimano;s that broke. The first went in for repair, then i got a call telling me the repair would be £35 plus post, hang on its less than 6 months old.

So what you going to do ? i asked. We will get back to you.

Next thing i am offered the repair for free, or money back, money back please.

The second one broke and went back to the shop, and again i got a refund.

Never had a shimano since. Diawa reels do the job better IMO, as i haven't had problems with them.

Plus they are not cheap, and don't have as much plastic as the shimano's.

Tee Cee,

Diawa do a few bait runner reels, but if your happy with the reels you have, stick with them. Everyone has different opinions about tackle, if we all liked the same gear, half the gear on the market wouldn't be available.

 

[barbelboi]

Keep your Aero's.....or make a small fortune on ebay. Still some of the best reels you can get.

Apart from the Exceler I wouldn't recommend a Daiwa. They all seem so cheap and plasticy.

Still using a pair of Aero 5000 GTE's that are around 14 years old - both run as good as new.................

 

[S-Kippy]

Still using a pair of Aero 5000 GTE's that are around 14 years old - both run as good as new.................

14 year old rubbish then !

Daiwa Regal Z. A decent value baitrunner type reel which offers faultless performance & a bit of individuality bankside. Only downside is the almost inevitable on the spot fine from the Style Police.

 

[Tee-Cee]

I shall have a gander online, although I have to say the name 'Regal Z' doesn't do a lot for me.....

I'm still thinking on the 'individuality' side of things - don't really want to stand out, but as long as they're not too shiney.....................................


Just had a quick look. Do they do enough different models, or what ?

Prices look reasonable though...£66 aprox for the baitrunner type...

 

[itsfishingnotcatching]

Daiwa Regal Z. A decent value baitrunner type reel which offers faultless performance & a bit of individuality bankside. Only downside is the almost inevitable on the spot fine from the Style Police.

And the single handle S-Kippy :wh

 

[binka]

If you're looking at a modestly priced Daiwa Tee-Cee also pick up an Emcast BR and have a play, I bought a small 3500 size earlier in the year for some of my barbelling and have just added a pair in the 5000 size for my pike fishing.

Nothing flash, just very well built, solid and understated looking reels at a decent price...

Emcast BR | daiwasports.co.uk

£75 will see one in the bag.

Ps... The line lay really is excellent too.

 

[nicepix]

14 year old rubbish then !

Daiwa Regal Z. A decent value baitrunner type reel which offers faultless performance & a bit of individuality bankside. Only downside is the almost inevitable on the spot fine from the Style Police.

I've found another downside; the little washer behind the spool that seems hell bent on escape whenever you change the spools. Other than that, bulletproof.

(Disclaimer; I also have four Aero GTEs three of which have double handles )

 

[anglerpaulm]

I don't think its the line Tee Cee, and as Skippy said, why change a line you are happy with.

There are so many lines on the market now, ( if your thinking of changing ) where do you start.

You could try the Drennen double strength, but i still use Maxima on a couple of spools, never had a problem with it.

I would go along with Skippy, ditch the shimano's mg: , i did, best thing i ever did.

Avoid double strength.

Bloody half strength!