Beaten up Carp

[maritimesbob]

Been fishing at a local fishery, first time I have been there. Had a great time, catching Carp close to 8lb on Waggler gear, good fun indeed.

The water was warm, the weather warm, mid-summer like.

However I saddened by the condition of the larger Carp. They have clearly been badly fished, many had chunks of their mouths missing. Can't tell whether it is simply overfishing, bad anglers, bit of both?

The fishery changed ownership in the last few years. Not sure whether this happened on their watch or previous regimes.

Is this becoming a common place sighting with fisheries?

When I was younger and last into coarse fishing, fisheries were a lot less common, gravel pits, farm ponds, rivers, canals etc were the main fishing areas.

Hope this is not a common thing with fisheries. I did mention to the owners as I was leaving that I enjoyed my fishing but saddened by the state of the Carp. He was aware but didn't really say a lot else on the matter.

Thinking back, I wonder if these larger Carp should have been moved out of the "silver fish" lake? Many anglers are probably fishing on light hook lengths and probably losing gear to these larger Carp.

A messy mouth Mirror

View image in gallery​

 

[Lord Paul of Sheffield]

or could it be anglers targeting tem with heavy gear and trying to drag them out of snags that causes the damage

 

[big bad barry]

This is exactly the reason I don't fish commercials, probably people fishing with boat rope and dragging fish in through lilies etc at the expense of the fish. It's things like this that get anglers a bad name, such a shame.

 

[maritimesbob]

Indeed, I was talking to the owner of a local tackle shop yesterday as I was buying a couple of bank sticks.

He was telling me, last few years has seen an influx of new Carp anglers. He gets irate when they come into the shop and start hunting for 3lb test curve rods, sea fishing size reels and beachcasting type main line to fish Carp in Cornwall No excuse particularly down here as we have no big waters, and in my limited experience the best fun can be found in or close to the margins.

I suppose that's the answer really.

I was loving fishing the margins, small waggler, 4lb mainline, match rod and taking the time to enjoy bringing in those deformed "larger" Carp. Was sad to see them when I got a closer look.

 

[john step]

This subject has been on here before and I feel never got fully to the reason it happens. If I remember correctly there were so many opinions from
heavy tackle to too fine braid hooklengths ,heavy gauge hooks, barbed hooks, repeat captures before mouth heals and so on.
Personally I feel it is the aspect of repeat captures in commercials that may be the overriding cause.
You just don't see it where the carp get caught infrequently. Certainly on one of my club lakes the carp are hard to catch and are mint when they come out.

 

[peter crabtree]

Could it be a hereditary genetic deformity occurring in carp bred intensively on farms? It seems to be commonest in commercials and those farms are usually where they buy their stock.....

 

[maritimesbob]

The repeated catching idea does sound very plausable, especially heavily stocked lakes where they catch for fun!

I did have a reminder what a stunning fish the Crucian carp is. Caught a couple today, wow, just like gold bars. Beautiful fish, especially in the sun.

 

[law]

As well as people dragging them out with over gunned gear,on the flipside, size 20s dont help when targetting bigger carp.

 

[thecrow]

Personally I feel it is the aspect of repeat captures in commercials that may be the overriding cause

Nail on head John..........

 

[terry m]

Nail on head John..........

I agree.

One of the main attractions that keeps me enthused with angling, is taking a few moments to admire a specimen prior to carefully xreturning it. Catching fish in that condition leaves me utterly cold, I am sure that I am not alone in that feeling.

 

[Lord Paul of Sheffield]

With mouths so badly damaged you wonder how some carp take the bait or been eat

 

[cg74]

Could it be a hereditary genetic deformity occurring in carp bred intensively on farms? It seems to be commonest in commercials and those farms are usually where they buy their stock.....

Joking aside, I've found carp that feed primarily over gravel tend to have tougher mouths than their silt sifting counterparts.
So if they're farm bred fish reared on pellets, it logically follows that seeing as there is a greatly reduced need to grub around on the water bed, their mouths will be softer still.

Add to that frequency of capture and this is where we're at!

It's beyond me why the owners of such fish don't just cull them.

 

[law]

With mouths so badly damaged you wonder how some carp take the bait or been eat

I fished a lake last year.
Started double maggot on a size 14, kept getting bites but couldn't hit them. Went up hook sizes, no joy. I only started catching when I used a size 20 and the smallest maggots I could find. Their mouths were so buggered that all they had was a hole, around the size of a match head. And these were carp around 3-4lb.

I packed up and went home.

 

[john step]

Today I caught 8 carp to maybe a scraper double and with this thread in mind I very carefully examined the mouths where I unhooked them. Most I had difficulty in seeing where it had been and one or two were red which I treated with that stuff you buy for the purpose.

I was using a standard barbless carp hook to N Trap. The fish pulled hard.

I just wonder apart from the repeat capture idea what you have to do to make such a mess of a mouth.

 

[BarryC]

I have a theory about so called mug fish that get caught regularly.
Fish only have one way to examine wether something is good/safe to eat and that is by taking it in their mouth.
Often carp will feel the hook and try to eject the bait, in fact the bolt rig partialy relies on them doing just this.
But fish that get their mouths damaged start to lose their feeling due to a build up of scar tissue and are not able to feel the hook/line so well.

 

[john step]

I have a theory about so called mug fish that get caught regularly.
Fish only have one way to examine wether something is good/safe to eat and that is by taking it in their mouth.
Often carp will feel the hook and try to eject the bait, in fact the bolt rig partialy relies on them doing just this.
But fish that get their mouths damaged start to lose their feeling due to a build up of scar tissue and are not able to feel the hook/line so well.

Good point. You may have hit upon something here.....Although....as anglers we believe fish don't feel pain as such as we do! It may be that the damage is done to the taste receptors from the barbules or in fact that once damaged they cannot eject efficiently.

 

[barbelboi]

Joking aside, I've found carp that feed primarily over gravel tend to have tougher mouths than their silt sifting counterparts.
So if they're farm bred fish reared on pellets, it logically follows that seeing as there is a greatly reduced need to grub around on the water bed, their mouths will be softer still.

Add to that frequency of capture and this is where we're at!

It's beyond me why the owners of such fish don't just cull them.

Agreed Colin, here's part of a post I made on a 'soft mouth' thread in 2011

IMO carp which spend most of their time feeding in silt will have softer mouths, while carp from gravel pits and lakes with bottoms mostly formed from clay, stone etc will have quite hard mouths. While carp with soft mouths are more prone to hook pulls from the hook tearing out, carp with hard mouths are more prone to hook pulls because the hook has not gone in far enough and taken a good hold. Whether they are hard or soft, its not really an issue, because they are the way they are, trying to prevent hook pulls is a different matter, and sometimes playing a fish too softly can be as lethal as playing it too hard. A carp is trying to get rid of the hook from the moment it feels it, and they can become quite good at getting rid of it....

 

[tigger]

I've only ever seen fish with mouths in that terrible state on commercials where they only allow barbless hooks.

 

[barbelboi]

I've only ever seen fish with mouths in that terrible state on commercials where they only allow barbless hooks.

I've never seen fish with damaged mouths during the many years I was a member of RMC/CEMEX and they only allowed barbed hooks for larger than size 14...

 

[bennygesserit]

Today I caught 8 carp to maybe a scraper double and with this thread in mind I very carefully examined the mouths where I unhooked them. Most I had difficulty in seeing where it had been and one or two were red which I treated with that stuff you buy for the purpose.

I was using a standard barbless carp hook to N Trap. The fish pulled hard.

I just wonder apart from the repeat capture idea what you have to do to make such a mess of a mouth.

I think primarily quite a few anglers are not precious about fish welfare , anyone can turn up to a commercial and fish , they never check your license and they almost never check what kit you are using.

A commercial I fish has around 200 - 300 carp in one pool from 8 - 15 lb , the most I have ever caught in one day is about 20 , if you extrapolate that out and multiply the number of anglers by the days in a week then some of these fish must be getting caught every few days.

Some of these fish have parrot mouths but its a minority.
photograph every fish you catch on this pool and I would say only 5 percent show discernible damage. So some fish have been in there 10 years or more have been caught many times a year and show no real damage ( apart from lacking the curtain behind the lip - does that count ?)