rapeseed
- Thread starter hawb811
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sam vimes
Well-known member
I've never heard of anyone specifically using rape as a bait. Shame, as I'm sure that I could get a sack or two for nothing. I suppose that it might have been part of a seed mix or two over the years, but I've not seen it mentioned as a specified part of any mix I've bought
laguna
Well-known member
Me neither but why not.
I suspect it only needs to be soaked - without boiling. I'll look into it and let you know but assuredly there is no prep for extracting oil straight from the field after a good wash, it contains more omega3 than olive oil and is a good addition to a CLO blend.
I suspect it only needs to be soaked - without boiling. I'll look into it and let you know but assuredly there is no prep for extracting oil straight from the field after a good wash, it contains more omega3 than olive oil and is a good addition to a CLO blend.
sam vimes
Well-known member
Absolutley. I know that rape isn't dried excessively after harvesting. I'd suspect that might mean it needs little preparation to use as a bait. I'm pretty sure that it sinks as it comes, but I'd confirm that before use. I suspect that any prep to use as bait will revolve around ensuring that it does sink rather than anything else.
robtherake
Well-known member
As was mentioned in a previous post, rape crops are often "desiccated" by killing the plant with glyphosate. It might be sensible to give it a jolly good rinse before cooking.
slaphead
Well-known member
According to River Bank Tales by Lee Fletcher, they only require soaking for 24-36 hours with no cooking.
thats true, they kill it to get maximum harvest but fisheries also use glysophate to control weed
robtherake
Well-known member
Regardless of the legality of using the stuff, it's a cumulative poison that we were led to believe was benign. Governments the world over are finally waking up to the dangers and are ridding themselves of it.
EU Countries Launch Shock Rebellion against Glyphosate Herbicides - Sustainable Pulse
laguna
Well-known member
I've had a quick look at rapeseed mainly from a nutritional point of view, to try to determine the necessary preparation for fish feed/bait at a minimum.
I would conclude; edible, to some degree (with preparation) but not as good as first thought.
Unfortunately, though not surprising, there are lots of different varieties abound, and I found very little information of British varieties of rapeseed which is what were likely to encounter in the UK. That said; I would conclude that there are indeed some anti-nutrients present (all varieties and strains) which can be detrimental to the health of monogastric animals without proper preparation. I found a little but not much information on fish fed on rapeseed, most of the studies done are for ruminants.
Most notable are the anti-nutrients present which form complexes with proteins making them unavailable to the animal.
The specifics might bore the **** out of some of you but here's a few from some of the studies I've read, simplified for the sake of clarity.
Antinutritional factors such as glucosinolates, phenolics, phytates and hulls.
The content of phenolics in rapeseed flour is nearly 30 times higher than that of soybean. (if you consider that soya flour used in a 50:50 mix is bad?)
Phenolic compounds contribute to the dark colour, bitter taste and astringency of rapeseed meals. They may also interact with amino acids, enzymes and other food components, thus influencing the nutritional value of rapeseed meal and its products.
Therefore, phenolic compounds are important factors when considering rapeseed meal as a protein source in food formulations. Available literature data on phenolic compounds and tannins of rapeseed/canola are fragmentary and diverse. Developing a standardized method for analysis and quantitation of these compounds is warranted. Interaction of rapeseed phenolics/tannins with proteins and their effects on enzymes and other food components remain to be studied.
Enzymatic and nonenzymatic oxidation of phenolics may readily react with the e-NH2 group of lysine and CH3S group of methionine of enzymes and other proteins to form complexes, thus rendering them nutritionally unavailable. In other words, Methionine and Lysine being essential amino acids means that they will not therefore be assimilated and digested - fish cannot synthesise essential amino acids for themselves. *If fish require these particular nutrients, they are unlikely to feed solely on rapeseed for long periods.
Amino acid - responsible for smell/scent and taste.
Essential amino acid - one the animal can only acquire through their diet.
(Fish have a requirement for 10 different essential amino acids)
These are the 10 essential amino acids required by fish: Arginine, Histidine, Isoleucine, Leucine, Lysine, Methionine, Phenylalanine, Threonine, Tryptophan, and Valine. As an aside; I can tell you there is not one single food on the planet that contains all of them.
Tanins
Reduction of food intake and growth of experimental animals (rats and chicks), as well as a decrease in protein digestibility have been associated with the ingestion of polyphenols. Research also shows increased fecal calcium losses by rats fed with 3% tannic acid.
Tannin content (wherever encountered in food) as known, is highly correlated with a decrease in weight gain, decreased feed intake, decreased retention of protein and increased fat retention. It is thought this may be due to the binding of tannins to digestive enzymes and/or to dietary proteins. Condensed tannins may also bind to methionine.
Tannins may precipiate a wide range of essential minerals, thus lowering their bioavailability.
It was found that heating rapeseed (meal) for 0.5 h at 95°C substantially reduced the ability of starches to complex with either tannic acid or catechi (whatever that is?).
In other words soak (for some specified time) and boil the whole seed for at least 1/2 hour to lessen the effects of tanins on proteins.
Some studies also suggest Phenolic compounds have been identified as possible inhibitors of iron absorption.
Tannic acid has been found to precipitate vitamin B12 making it unavailable and contributing to anaemia.
"Phenolic compounds not only affect the taste of rapeseed protein products, but also lower their nutritional value However, the available information on the undesirable properties of rapeseed/canola phenolic compounds is still fragmentary. Therefore more detailed studies on the nutritional implications caused by interaction with phenolic compounds of rapeseed food components and their sensory effects are required. The variability of the reported results on tannin content in rapeseed/canola is caused by the existing differences in the solvent-extraction systems employed for their recovery and quantitation methods used.
The specificity of tannin-protein interactions has been well documented for a number of plant tannins. However, little is known about the tannin-protein interaction in rapeseed/canola."
Rapeseed meal has a reasonably well-balanced amino acid content and a favourable protein efficiency ratio.
However, use of rapeseed meal as a source of food-grade protein (for humans at least) is still thwarted by the presence of phytic acid and phenolic compounds.
I would conclude; edible, to some degree (with preparation) but not as good as first thought.
Unfortunately, though not surprising, there are lots of different varieties abound, and I found very little information of British varieties of rapeseed which is what were likely to encounter in the UK. That said; I would conclude that there are indeed some anti-nutrients present (all varieties and strains) which can be detrimental to the health of monogastric animals without proper preparation. I found a little but not much information on fish fed on rapeseed, most of the studies done are for ruminants.
Most notable are the anti-nutrients present which form complexes with proteins making them unavailable to the animal.
The specifics might bore the **** out of some of you but here's a few from some of the studies I've read, simplified for the sake of clarity.
Antinutritional factors such as glucosinolates, phenolics, phytates and hulls.
The content of phenolics in rapeseed flour is nearly 30 times higher than that of soybean. (if you consider that soya flour used in a 50:50 mix is bad?)
Phenolic compounds contribute to the dark colour, bitter taste and astringency of rapeseed meals. They may also interact with amino acids, enzymes and other food components, thus influencing the nutritional value of rapeseed meal and its products.
Therefore, phenolic compounds are important factors when considering rapeseed meal as a protein source in food formulations. Available literature data on phenolic compounds and tannins of rapeseed/canola are fragmentary and diverse. Developing a standardized method for analysis and quantitation of these compounds is warranted. Interaction of rapeseed phenolics/tannins with proteins and their effects on enzymes and other food components remain to be studied.
Enzymatic and nonenzymatic oxidation of phenolics may readily react with the e-NH2 group of lysine and CH3S group of methionine of enzymes and other proteins to form complexes, thus rendering them nutritionally unavailable. In other words, Methionine and Lysine being essential amino acids means that they will not therefore be assimilated and digested - fish cannot synthesise essential amino acids for themselves. *If fish require these particular nutrients, they are unlikely to feed solely on rapeseed for long periods.
Amino acid - responsible for smell/scent and taste.
Essential amino acid - one the animal can only acquire through their diet.
(Fish have a requirement for 10 different essential amino acids)
These are the 10 essential amino acids required by fish: Arginine, Histidine, Isoleucine, Leucine, Lysine, Methionine, Phenylalanine, Threonine, Tryptophan, and Valine. As an aside; I can tell you there is not one single food on the planet that contains all of them.
Tanins
Reduction of food intake and growth of experimental animals (rats and chicks), as well as a decrease in protein digestibility have been associated with the ingestion of polyphenols. Research also shows increased fecal calcium losses by rats fed with 3% tannic acid.
Tannin content (wherever encountered in food) as known, is highly correlated with a decrease in weight gain, decreased feed intake, decreased retention of protein and increased fat retention. It is thought this may be due to the binding of tannins to digestive enzymes and/or to dietary proteins. Condensed tannins may also bind to methionine.
Tannins may precipiate a wide range of essential minerals, thus lowering their bioavailability.
It was found that heating rapeseed (meal) for 0.5 h at 95°C substantially reduced the ability of starches to complex with either tannic acid or catechi (whatever that is?).
In other words soak (for some specified time) and boil the whole seed for at least 1/2 hour to lessen the effects of tanins on proteins.
Some studies also suggest Phenolic compounds have been identified as possible inhibitors of iron absorption.
Tannic acid has been found to precipitate vitamin B12 making it unavailable and contributing to anaemia.
"Phenolic compounds not only affect the taste of rapeseed protein products, but also lower their nutritional value However, the available information on the undesirable properties of rapeseed/canola phenolic compounds is still fragmentary. Therefore more detailed studies on the nutritional implications caused by interaction with phenolic compounds of rapeseed food components and their sensory effects are required. The variability of the reported results on tannin content in rapeseed/canola is caused by the existing differences in the solvent-extraction systems employed for their recovery and quantitation methods used.
The specificity of tannin-protein interactions has been well documented for a number of plant tannins. However, little is known about the tannin-protein interaction in rapeseed/canola."
Rapeseed meal has a reasonably well-balanced amino acid content and a favourable protein efficiency ratio.
However, use of rapeseed meal as a source of food-grade protein (for humans at least) is still thwarted by the presence of phytic acid and phenolic compounds.
i read it, im now going to mix a protein shake powder with my groundbait to give them there amino acids lol, if you did a breakdown of most foods there would always be negative points, i think the best thing to do is try it and mix it with hemp to feed, i will just soak it overnight, would still like to know why the red is supposed to be better
Thanks for the article Chris - and the summary.
I reckon you've put more research into that topic than most undergrads put into their Uni degrees! - and your results are probably more readable too!
Thanks again:thumbs:
mikench
Well-known member
Yes thanks indeed Chris! Bet you thought you might be on to a winner!!
rayner
Well-known member
I can't find anything with regard to which is the best.
Where did your information come from regarding red being better. is some scientific theory or just chit chat.
I've had a look and can find nothing.
I s there a reason why you want to feed it with hemp ?
Where did your information come from regarding red being better. is some scientific theory or just chit chat.
I've had a look and can find nothing.
I s there a reason why you want to feed it with hemp ?
a comment on another forum said it was red i wanted, no particular reason why im using it, just trying it, i try loads of foodstuff for bait
laguna
Well-known member
Absolutely. There is no such thing as the perfect food/bait, there is always something lacking. hence the reason why we need variety in our diets, fish are no exception. The biggest problem when feeding poor quality food, is that the enzymes that are necessarily for proper digestion are limited, taking a toll on the health of fish/animals that consume them. All creatures are born with a limited amount of enzymatic reserves to enable proper digestion of processed foods, each food item has enough to digested itself when ripened - literally enough to digest itself. The problem arises when we need to boil or add alcoholic flavours and other substances to an otherwise good bait - they denature the proteins so the body needs to call upon its own limited reserves from the pancreas leading to poor health and reduced life expectancy.
A jumble of notes more than any dissertation Greenie but as you might have read, the research done is far from complete. The old adage; if in doubt 'boil' seems appropriate here, but I would consider using boiled rape in conjunction with soaked hemp (without the boil) or tares to keep fish feeding. Is rapeseed cheaper? There seems to be plenty about in the fields.
I initially thought yeah why not? I will consider any edible bait and even a few things we might find repulsive Mike. My own preference being slightly off, and whiffy which the fish seem to like!