Barbel to be Stocked in the Don

[Simon K]

---------- Post added at 03:06 ---------- Previous post was at 02:43 ----------

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. The whole point of this thread was Simon's request for clarification as to why the price of barbel fingerlings has recently dropped through the floor. It's a mystery, isn't it?

No it wasn't.

It was tongue-in-cheek with a serious hint of the real cost of stocking if it were to be dropped into the hands of private enterprise, like so many other "public services" have been through the recession.

Ministries have come under enormous pressure to slash budgets and this is an example of what could happen.
Quite easily.

You have made a unproven assumption regarding their provenance.

 

[Lord Paul of Sheffield]

KILL ALL BARB............................

Actualey I love barbel - they liven up otherwise dull periods on FM

 

[Andy Youngs]

You have made a unproven assumption regarding their provenance.

Agreed. But my guess is that we will get an answer from Calverton. And it will be posted on here (maybe take a month or so). And then my assumption will be either proven or disproven. In the meantime, if anyone knows the truth behind this puzzle then please tell us because it will save everyone a lot of time and hassle.

Lord Paul, less of the 'kill' sentiment please. I don't want to be here any more than you. But we're all stuck on this bloody clod of earth, so I suggest we try and make the best of it.

 

[Lord Paul of Sheffield]

Agreed. But my guess is that we will get an answer from Calverton. And it will be posted on here (maybe take a month or so). And then my assumption will be either proven or disproven. In the meantime, if anyone knows the truth behind this puzzle then please tell us because it will save everyone a lot of time and hassle.

Lord Paul, less of the 'kill' sentiment please. I don't want to be here any more than you. But we're all stuck on this bloody clod of earth, so I suggest we try and make the best of it.

Andy - how do you know how much I want to be here?

and by here do you mean FM, this life, That's Life (with Esther Rantzen), the Earth, the Universe.

And being landed gentry I love killing things, foxes, grouse, badgers, the great unwashed

How about Kill the Krill

 

[Simon K]

Agreed. But my guess is that we will get an answer from Calverton. And it will be posted on here (maybe take a month or so). And then my assumption will be either proven or disproven. In the meantime, if anyone knows the truth behind this puzzle then please tell us because it will save everyone a lot of time and hassle.

Andy, your guess/assumption is based on something you know nothing about and is entirely within your own head (and possibly agenda).

The only person who's mentioned Calverton is you and you obviously did not read my reply to this.
I will re-iterate it for you.

"There are "private" UK producers of barbel and other coarse species which are available to buy through the aquatic trade."

What it says on the tin. :wh

You will not get an answer from Calverton and it will not be posted on here.
I'm sure you can now work out why?

 

[Andy Youngs]

"There are "private" UK producers of barbel and other coarse species which are available to buy through the aquatic trade."

Agreed. All I'm saying is it might be helpful if we could identify where the stock came from and why they're being offered to the market at such low prices.

You will not get an answer from Calverton and it will not be posted on here. I'm sure you can now work out why?

Don't follow you there Simon. I will get an answer from Calverton, because the law of the land states that if I make an FOI request, then I will get an honest reply. I'm still drafting the request. It will probably go in Sunday or perhaps Monday.

When I receive a reply, I will post on here as public interest material.

Please Simon, sleep easy that you have not inflammed an intractable problem. But you might perhaps have become innocently entangled in a 'legal disagreement' which started long before your initial post on this thread.

---------- Post added at 00:17 ---------- Previous post was Yesterday at 23:46 ----------

Andy - how do you know how much I want to be here?

and by here do you mean FM, this life, That's Life (with Esther Rantzen), the Earth, the Universe.

And being landed gentry I love killing things, foxes, grouse, badgers, the great unwashed

How about Kill the Krill

In this metaphorical instance Paul, 'here' is any place where I don't have to argue with a few fanatical anglers as to whether or not I'm entitled to take kids paddling down one of my local rivers.

Regarding your statements about killing things, maybe what you're really seeing is a mirror of the unreasonableness that some anglers are projecting to the rest of the country right now. The sillyness continues for as long as you like ....

 

[Simon K]

Agreed. All I'm saying is it might be helpful if we could identify where the stock came from and why they're being offered to the market at such low prices.



Don't follow you there Simon. I will get an answer from Calverton, because the law of the land states that if I make an FOI request, then I will get an honest reply. I'm still drafting the request. It will probably go in Sunday or perhaps Monday.

When I receive a reply, I will post on here as public interest material.

Please Simon, sleep easy that you have not inflammed an intractable problem. But you might perhaps have become innocently entangled in a 'legal disagreement' which started long before your initial post on this thread.

Andy, I am a business-owner in the ornamental aquatics trade. These barbel do not come from Calverton, so don't waste your time.
They are at half-price because it's the end of the "pond" season in trade and many coldwater species get sold off cheap at this time of the year.
Simple market economics.

I have not become "innocently entangled" in anything. You are attempting to shoe-horn my post into your paranoid delusion of an agenda.
And no, I don't wish to know anything about it.

Spare me the barrack-room lawyer bit and back off on the patronising tone, thanks. I have neither the time nor the patience for this sort of nonsense.

 

[Andy Youngs]

Andy, I am a business-owner in the ornamental aquatics trade. These barbel do not come from Calverton, so don't waste your time.

OK, so where do they come from?

They are at half-price because it's the end of the "pond" season in trade and many coldwater species get sold off cheap at this time of the year.
Simple market economics.

So who's selling barbel to ponds at half price?

I have not become "innocently entangled" in anything. You are attempting to shoe-horn my post into your paranoid delusion of an agenda.
And no, I don't wish to know anything about it.

Spare me the barrack-room lawyer bit and back off on the patronising tone, thanks. I have neither the time nor the patience for this sort of nonsense.

All I'm trying to do is establish the name of the supplier and source of a batch of barbel. If it was legit, what's the problem? You don't have to post if you don't want to.

 

[cg74]

OK, so where do they come from?

So who's selling barbel to ponds at half price?

Ok Andy, you've rumbled my little side-line, so I'll come clean, here's how it all came about.....
I was innocently doing a bit of early season barbel fishing on the Severn, pretty successfully as it goes. Anyhow on my arrival home, I noticed this gooey mess in the bottom of my landing net and me being a conscientious type of guy, I duly washed my net in my garden pond, which is sadly redundant following heavy losses over the last two harsh winters.
Well what went on over the ensuing couple of weeks quite literally defied reality; thousands, and I mean thousands of barbel fry manifested.....

My intial thought was to return them to the Severn but decided NO, there are far to many of 'em in there already. So considered returning them to their ancestral homes (sort of), stocking them back into the Thames river system, albeit to a different tributary (I had ear marked the Cherwell as most needy) BUT NO that would be illegal.

So there I was lumbered with a few thousand juvenile barbel, that I have been busy selling (cheaply, as it felt a little wrong profitting from them) and what with losing all my much doted on kois, I decided they must all go before the onset of winter hits us.

Strangely though, this net scenario has happened several years running.



Andy, I do hope this post offers some solace to your troubled mind??

 

[904_cannon]

View image in gallery​

Just about sums it up Mr. CC And just note the posting times, poor guy must live his life in the twilight zone, or possibly a 'creature of the night'?

As for getting information from the EA Mr Youngs, I receive regular e-mailed updates, often daily.

And the 40 years of catching up, I was merely making the point that until very recently the controlling authorities in Northumbria were all very anti coarse. Anglers were encouraged/expected to kill coarse fish and the regions rivers coarse stocks were regularly netted out.

As for yesterdays Wear barbel stocking, the river got more like 2000 rather than the promised 1000

You might not be going anywhere Mr. Youngs, fortunately there is such a thing as an 'ignore' facility, I suggest we all use it, except for your good self, of course - you can now type away merrily - to yourself

 

[Andy Youngs]

Just about sums it up Mr. CC And just note the posting times, poor guy must live his life in the twilight zone, or possibly a 'creature of the night'?

At the moment, I'm working late shifts. Not that it's any of your business.

As for getting information from the EA Mr Youngs, I receive regular e-mailed updates, often daily.

Good for you. Why don't you share them with us?

And the 40 years of catching up, I was merely making the point that until very recently the controlling authorities in Northumbria were all very anti coarse. Anglers were encouraged/expected to kill coarse fish and the regions rivers coarse stocks were regularly netted out.

As for yesterdays Wear barbel stocking, the river got more like 2000 rather than the promised 1000

Interesting that they promise a 1,000 and deliver 2,000. Perhaps they have excess stock to dispose of?

You might not be going anywhere Mr. Youngs, fortunately there is such a thing as an 'ignore' facility, I suggest we all use it, except for your good self, of course - you can now type away merrily - to yourself

This thread has already had over 500 views. Seems to be a shortage of people hitting the 'ignore' button.

---------- Post added at 00:50 ---------- Previous post was at 00:21 ----------

Ok Andy, you've rumbled my little side-line, so I'll come clean, here's how it all came about.....
I was innocently doing a bit of early season barbel fishing on the Severn, pretty successfully as it goes. Anyhow on my arrival home, I noticed this gooey mess in the bottom of my landing net and me being a conscientious type of guy, I duly washed my net in my garden pond, which is sadly redundant following heavy losses over the last two harsh winters.
Well what went on over the ensuing couple of weeks quite literally defied reality; thousands, and I mean thousands of barbel fry manifested.....

My intial thought was to return them to the Severn but decided NO, there are far to many of 'em in there already. So considered returning them to their ancestral homes (sort of), stocking them back into the Thames river system, albeit to a different tributary (I had ear marked the Cherwell as most needy) BUT NO that would be illegal.

So there I was lumbered with a few thousand juvenile barbel, that I have been busy selling (cheaply, as it felt a little wrong profitting from them) and what with losing all my much doted on kois, I decided they must all go before the onset of winter hits us.

Strangely though, this net scenario has happened several years running.

Interesting story. I know a true story about a mate of mine who had a little stock pond in his back garden. He was happily growing on roach and rudd and perch, and then around 16 years ago the EA approached all the angling clubs in the Waveney Valley and enquired whether they would be interested in stocking barbel into their local river. The Wensum fishrmen said yes of course, but the Waveney fishermen said no.

Except my mate. He said as far as he was concerned, if it's ok to put barbel into the Wensum, then it's also OK to put them into the Waveney. So that's what he did.

And then one of his mates dobbed him in for doing it. My mate was named and shamed in the national press, and drummed out of his local angling club.

He gave up angling after that. Said all anglers were a bunch of hypocritical ********.

I struggle to disagree with this analysis.

Andy, I do hope this post offers some solace to your troubled mind??

No, not really.

 

[904_cannon]

Just re activated 'ignore'

I think you will find that the EA does not require anyones permission to stock any river, beyond that of other Government agencies.

We had an incident in Northumbria recently where a guy from the WRT (Wear Rivers Trust) objected to a stocking on the Wear. When I asked for the reason at the next EA Fisheries Forum meeting one WRT member said it was because they feared that not all RO had been consulted. It wasn't, the guy doing the objecting was 'anti coarse', and had been for as long as Ive lived in the area. Upshot is he has now gone (his organisation was looking at losing funding) and the river has received more fish in the last 18 months than in the previous 50 years.

Just how many clubs, individuals even, have the EA asked before stocking millions of salmon and sea trout fingerling's into the nations rivers? Watch out it could be a river close to you next, and then you really will have something to complain about, like paying up to £250k/year, to fish just one day a week.

 

[cg74]

Interesting story. I know a true story about a mate of mine who had a little stock pond in his back garden. He was happily growing on roach and rudd and perch, and then around 16 years ago the EA approached all the angling clubs in the Waveney Valley and enquired whether they would be interested in stocking barbel into their local river. The Wensum fishrmen said yes of course, but the Waveney fishermen said no.

Except my mate. He said as far as he was concerned, if it's ok to put barbel into the Wensum, then it's also OK to put them into the Waveney. So that's what he did.

And then one of his mates dobbed him in for doing it. My mate was named and shamed in the national press, and drummed out of his local angling club.

He gave up angling after that. Said all anglers were a bunch of hypocritical ********.

I struggle to disagree with this analysis.



No, not really.

"Interesting story" How bloody dare you imply that my post is fictitious. Do you have proof that substantiate your scrurrilous claims, I think not!!

So anglers are a "hypocritical bunch" I couldn't agree more, because the whole human race is guilty of that charge.

I somehow thought my post wouldn't ease your obviously troubled mind. With respect, might I suggest you seek some professional help.

---------- Post added at 03:12 ---------- Previous post was at 03:10 ----------

Just re activated 'ignore'

What and miss out on this comedy fest, I think not....

 

[Simon K]

Just re activated 'ignore'

Damn, that's good thinking!

Done.

 

[Andy Youngs]

Just re activated 'ignore'

Brilliant piece of reverse logic John. Activate ignore by posting a message. I suggest there are only 2 catagories : those that care about the issues, and those that don't; the latter being those that ignore.

I think you will find that the EA does not require anyones permission to stock any river

I certainly agree that the EA seem to think that they don't need anyone's permission to stock a river. That's the problem. In fact, they need the Governments permission and, in the case of an SAC river, the permission of the European Commission. The reality is that this might not be quite so straightforward as you appear to suggest.

We had an incident in Northumbria recently where a guy from the WRT (Wear Rivers Trust) objected to a stocking on the Wear. When I asked for the reason at the next EA Fisheries Forum meeting one WRT member said it was because they feared that not all RO had been consulted. It wasn't, the guy doing the objecting was 'anti coarse', and had been for as long as Ive lived in the area. Upshot is he has now gone (his organisation was looking at losing funding) and the river has received more fish in the last 18 months than in the previous 50 years.

Just how many clubs, individuals even, have the EA asked before stocking millions of salmon and sea trout fingerling's into the nations rivers? Watch out it could be a river close to you next, and then you really will have something to complain about, like paying up to £250k/year, to fish just one day a week.

John, the consultation process exists to try to ensure that all views are fully taken account of. I agree, it can give a forum for habitual objectors to object for the sake of it, but when anglers actively conspire to deny the river to other recreational users, then you should not be surprised if they then turn around and try to use the consultation process to their advantage.

Why give them that advantage? Surely, it makes more sense to reach an accommodation with canoeists, thereby putting anglers in a stronger position when it comes to negotiating restocking policy at a national level.

---------- Post added at 15:58 ---------- Previous post was at 15:43 ----------

"Interesting story" How bloody dare you imply that my post is fictitious. Do you have proof that substantiate your scrurrilous claims, I think not!!

I wasn't aware that I had questionned the authenticity of your post, but since you bring it up, I find it utterly preposterous that you returned home after a day's fishing to find a load of barbel fry in your landing net, so you decided to grow them on and sell them at a discounted rate to someone on the Thames out of deference to passed stocking policy.

So anglers are a "hypocritical bunch" I couldn't agree more, because the whole human race is guilty of that charge.

I somehow thought my post wouldn't ease your obviously troubled mind. With respect, might I suggest you seek some professional help.

Not all anglers are hypocritical. Some are genuine, but not all. Some are very disingenuous. I think you are the one who's in need of professional help.

 

[cg74]

I wasn't aware that I had questionned the authenticity of your post, but since you bring it up, I find it utterly preposterous that you returned home after a day's fishing to find a load of barbel fry in your landing net, so you decided to grow them on and sell them at a discounted rate to someone on the Thames out of deference to passed stocking policy.



Not all anglers are hypocritical. Some are genuine, but not all. Some are very disingenuous. I think you are the one who's in need of professional help.

Andy, you most certainly did question the authenticity of my post, deliberate or otherwise. You wrote; "interesting story" followed by; "I know a true story"

It rather intimates my account of events as being falsified/fictitious.
Did I say that there were barbel fry in my net, err no!
Spawn, milt and the course of nature.....

Regards hypocrites, like I said, the whole human race is guilty of that, varying degrees, but none the less - guilty.

Keep up your sterling work, I won't put you on ignore, far too much hilarity to ignore.

 

[Andy Youngs]

Andy, you most certainly did question the authenticity of my post, deliberate or otherwise. You wrote; "interesting story" followed by; "I know a true story"

So, I wrote 'this is an interesting story', followed by 'I know a true story'. I'm sorry, but I really don't understand. As long as the first story was interesting and the second story was true, then what's the problem?

Did I say that there were barbel fry in my net, err no!
Spawn, milt and the course of nature.....

OK, so you get home and find barbel spawn, with milt in your landing net. Putting aside the question of how they got into your landing net, you then transferred them to a stock pond, brought them on, and then sold them to an end user on the Thames at a discounted rate because you felt that the Seven catchment was over-stocked with barbel? Unbelievable.

Keep up your sterling work, I won't put you on ignore, far too much hilarity to ignore.

Thanks. I might have to put you on ignore though. What a remarkable post.

 

[cg74]

What a remarkable post.

Why thank you.