Barbel Fishing – The Pope’s River Diary: January

[cg74]

That's it Fred, I'm giving the Bonio biscuits to Rich, yap, yap, yap....

 

[Rich Frampton]

That's it Fred, I'm giving the Bonio biscuits to Rich, yap, yap, yap....

Colin you are becoming very boring now....... good night.

 

[Fred Bonney]

Well well well......what an interesting day watching the squabbling masses, I am not surprised, Angling, but nay thrice nay, Barbel fishing has been the loser with this debate. I thought Steve's original comments were about so called celebrity anglers (I prefer to call them tackle tarts who sell them selves to the highest bidder) and what Steve believes constitutes the making of a celebrity angler, it is clear (read my post) I have no time for them, just as I have no time for the so called Celebs in big brother, or some Hello type mag. We will never all agree on something and Steve with the position he has as BS chairman will never please all the people all of the time, it goes with the territory, but he is ultimately a good man, a political animal yes, but I do wish we could be congenial about these things and constructive, but like all forms of institutionalised Angling you will always have someone, somewhere saying (best brummie accent here) yo doe wanna do it like that, yo wanna do it like this......the focus should be on the celeb culture that we are cursed with at the moment and save your venom for the creators of it, the papers and the mags we all buy each week and each month.

Of course your quite right!
The subject was changed, and I as usual, like a dog after a bone(there you are Colin) dived in.

So, let's just see if we can get this thread back to the subject of celebrity.

It's interesting to note that most if not all of those "celebrities" on Steve's list take no part in/on(?) the internet.

My thoughts are we are stuck with "celebrities" they are created by the media, (and by themselves in some recent cases) and "we" feed that creation whilst it suits us, and then "we" cut it down when the individual becomes too popular, or dares to have an opinion different to "our" individual own view.

The ones of old, the Walkers, Stones and Fred J's, would probably get the same treatment as the current "celebrities" do. That means they would probably be under the same attack as this t'internet thing allows. So they wouldn't bother to participate, like many of our current angling "celebrities" don't.
This leads to the lack of input from anglers with something to give to our sport... hobby..whatever we want to call it.
This is the media that destroys the ability of individuals to give a view, or an idea. It's too immediate, and as a result too easy for those who haven't an idea for themselves, to just knock it and hide behind their screen.

I say thank God for the weeklies/monthlys, whatever their short comings, at least they give us some respite from the dross spouted on some internet fishing sites/blogs from the overnight expert....wannabe celebrity!

 

[magna barbus]

Thats and interesting response Fred, but I dont think the names from yesteryear would have had the same response, yes Walker had his detractors and there is nothing wrong with that, he sometimes cultivated that himself, as he was a very argumentative individual, but he wasnt a professional angler, how can you believe any of todays celebs when their loyalty is to their sponsor or wages payer, everything they say or day is suspect and corrupt I think, use this rod, that bait this rig, this reel is the best, if you extract the huge grinning posed pictures and the candid adverts, the amount of quality writing is minimal. I am far from an over night expert Fred, I have passion thats all for the things that I think do angling no favours, and as an expert pase' ,,,,,,no way I am still learning and I still aint got it right!

 

[cg74]

Colin you are becoming very boring now....... good night.

One - nil too Rich (in the boring stakes); I'm only "becoming very boring" whereas your inanely drivelous spoutings are at best insipid, at worst, well you work it out....










Sorry, I forgot my manners, a hearty good morning to you Rich.:wh


yip yap bow wowwww....

---------- Post added at 08:54 ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 ----------

Of course your quite right!
The subject was changed, and I as usual, like a dog after a bone(there you are Colin) dived in.

So, let's just see if we can get this thread back to the subject of celebrity.

It's interesting to note that most if not all of those "celebrities" on Steve's list take no part in/on(?) the internet.

My thoughts are we are stuck with "celebrities" they are created by the media, (and by themselves in some recent cases) and "we" feed that creation whilst it suits us, and then "we" cut it down when the individual becomes too popular, or dares to have an opinion different to "our" individual own view.

The ones of old, the Walkers, Stones and Fred J's, would probably get the same treatment as the current "celebrities" do. That means they would probably be under the same attack as this t'internet thing allows. So they wouldn't bother to participate, like many of our current angling "celebrities" don't.
This leads to the lack of input from anglers with something to give to our sport... hobby..whatever we want to call it.
This is the media that destroys the ability of individuals to give a view, or an idea. It's too immediate, and as a result too easy for those who haven't an idea for themselves, to just knock it and hide behind their screen.

I say thank God for the weeklies/monthlys, whatever their short comings, at least they give us some respite from the dross spouted on some internet fishing sites/blogs from the overnight expert....wannabe celebrity!

Fred, I think about half of Steve's list either post on forums and/or are bloggers, also worth a thought.
Steve listed these two as possible criteria to be met: "Is a regular on the web and Writes a regular blog."



Bit slow this morning Fred, I missed your doggy reference.

Go on Fred, fetch the bone, there's a good boy....

 

[Fred Bonney]

Thats and interesting response Fred, but I dont think the names from yesteryear would have had the same response, yes Walker had his detractors and there is nothing wrong with that, he sometimes cultivated that himself, as he was a very argumentative individual, but he wasnt a professional angler, how can you believe any of todays celebs when their loyalty is to their sponsor or wages payer, everything they say or day is suspect and corrupt I think, use this rod, that bait this rig, this reel is the best, if you extract the huge grinning posed pictures and the candid adverts, the amount of quality writing is minimal. I am far from an over night expert Fred, I have passion thats all for the things that I think do angling no favours, and as an expert pase' ,,,,,,no way I am still learning and I still aint got it right!

I'm not so certain, I think that is one of the problems we all have in comparing yesterdays celebs with todays.
In totally different circumstances to the 1960's, how would they deal with it today?
My guess is they may well be professional anglers and earning good money from their Mark iv's and Legerstrikes, especially if they had developed those very same products in todays world and angling development was just starting on it's journey as it did then..

I have to say, like you, I have no faith in anything promoted by the smiling face of an individual who has caught one or two specimen fish,and is offering me a rod with his name streaked along its butt,developed by somebody else.
I'm not looking for the quick fix, that is what todays "celebrities" offer, but there are many who are willing to go along with that possibility!

I would however be happy to buy a days fishing from somebody who has had consistent success over a number of years, in the hope it will help continue my learning curve, and perhaps enable me to pass on some of my learned wisdom to others(young or old). And if he had developed a rod that I used on that day with his name on it and it felt right,I may well buy that too.

Oh yes,in case it looks otherwise, as Steve has put you on his celebrity list, I'm happy to accept his view.....whomever you are

 

[longshaw]

Dearest Fred,
Of course it was different then because they were pioneers,I bought **** Walker and Jack Hilton hooks because they were the only decent ones available,I've only just used up the last packet of 4's I've had for about 20 years,very rarely threw them away,they were dried and oiled in a tobacco tin ready for the next outing.
I also used a Peter Stone ledger rod for years it was superb and served me well until a craftsman called Pete Evans worked his magic on revolutionary 3 / 4 piece blank developed specifically for Avon barbel meat rolling nearly a decade before it was "discovered" and commercialised.
I also had a pair of Herons which after being painted matt black gave great service for several years mind you in those days before stockies they didn't get much action.
They all enthralled us with their tales of countless blanks on darkened pools which made us feel better and inspired us to share similar countless nights sat behind motionless rods in the faint hope that eventually we might just tempt a wary wildie.
Both of my copies of Mr.Crabtree are well thumbed having served me well,unfortunately the tales were lost on any of my offspring but I live in hope that one day grandchildren may find them inspiring.

Compare that now with the celebrities who chase reported fish, gleaning minutiae from reported catches in the weekly's you so love in order to secure that next sponsorship deal and increase their profile for the shilling of the next gullible fool eager to make his first barbel a double.

 

[cg74]

..........

 

[magna barbus]

Longshaw, you have said most eloquently what I have tried to say, what modern celebs try to engender is imitation, i.e. buy this, buy that, do this....do as I do, use what I use etc. where as the pioneers of yesteryear tried to inspire others, Walker proved big fish could be caught by design, Taylor proved deadbaits were as good as livebaits, Stoney taught us the intricacies and art of ledgering rather than a second rod looking after instself approach, Gibbinson taught us about winter Carp, I could gone on..... what these guys had in common with the ordinary man was time, the newer pin ups of today have no restrictions of time, for all we know they could blank 9 times out of 10, time is a crucial resource for the specialist angler, if you dont go fishing you wont catch, the more you go the more you catch. But we are fed a line that every time these herberts go fishing they catch a fish of a lifetime, 13Ib Barbel, 40Ib Carp, 35Ib Pike, its nonsense frankly and has had a marked effect on angling, 10 years ago the Angling Times sold 100k copies per week, now it struggles to sell 35000, you only have to see this weeks issue, huge colour spreads with limited instruction or inspiration, but just the vain weeks grins of so called celebrities that see their fellow anglers as gullible cash cows.
Yes it was different Fred in the 1960's, I dont long to go back to those days, but whilst we as anglers have changed through the commercialisation of our pastime, the fish haven't, they are still the same as they were 10000 years ago, they way I see it is that we cheat now, we fill pools with Carp so anglers (?) can catch 100Ib of fish on the coldest of days, we are continually told that the next trick is the best trick ever, and last years new rod is rubbish and this years is much better. I could mention names of the most offending celebs, but I wont as they are a sensitive lot, who remind me of a bunch of luvvy actors who are consumed with regard to their position on popularity tree. I am all for debating who is or was a driving force in angling, maybe who deserves status, but please lets first get rid of the word celebrity. I know Steve meant well it starting this discussion and it is a valid thread for this type of media.

 

[longshaw]

And if we believe some of the stories I hear the captures shown on their TV appearances are quite often faked to save an expensive blank.
There is some evidence of this when the reel being used mysteriously changes whilst the fish is being landed.

 

[richiekelly]

I was called foolish a couple of years ago on here for daring to suggest the "names " sometimes fished swims that had been reserved and baited up for a week or so before they fished it, i know that it happens and its this kind of thing that is used to promote the next best thing in angling, i wonder how many of these names are good anglers and how many are followers of whatever information they are given.

 

[Steve Pope]

Hi All,

Pleased to see my Diary piece has stimulated some discussion.

As I mentioned this topic will run for the next few pieces and I will sum up my views at the end.

Its raining here in Sydney and I have discovered the joys of being a grandpa but as soon as I get the laptop I'll be back.

All the best.

 

[magna barbus]

I think it is a very worthwhile subject Steve, it is assumed that the celeb culture in angling is a good thing, its fair to say they appear to have little or no overt harm, they have become entertainers, where the influential anglers of the past were motivational, inspirational and ground breaking in the inventions and ideas. The few that we have now are truly in it for what they can get out of it in a commercial sense, we know everyone has to make a living, I have no problem with that, but I really believe the culture that exists today with these showman, is a message that is blurred and fanciful, it is throw away and has no substance, to give the impression that all these guys have to do is turn up and catch a fish of a life time is wrong, because we know this isnt so, I would love to be able to wave a magic wand and get back to basics and stop the sponsorship paid culture, I have no problem with guiding services, a level of product endorsement, I have no problem with tackle shops or manufacturers advertising, commercialism is good and makes the world go round, as I see it its the message these so called professional, celebs that we have at the minute are giving out, they are doing no good for Angling one jot, infact they devalue it in my opinion.

 

[Graham Elliott 1]

It's athought provoking piece. I think it's important to recognise that, as he stated, Steve has selected from the founder members of the BS for his first list. Some very respected names there as well, fished with many of them.

Obviously there are some who were not founder members and who I would elevate.

But why oh why does every mention of the Barbel Society or indeed barbel on FM end up with an individual on his white charger coming to the supposed rescue, over any comment that doesn't meet the required deference.....

I'm just glad that others who probably caught more than the one (1) barbel the abovementioned caught last season have contributed to the forum.

 

[magna barbus]

Good point Graham, it saddens me when a perfectly worthwhile subject has been brought out for discussion, only for it to be hijacked by Steves or the BS's detractors, Steve will be the first to admit he has his enemies ( if that's the right description) as I said earlier it goes with the job of BS chairman. I was a founder member of the BS and was there at the first meeting in Upton, and I am happy and proud of that, and frankly Steve in my opinion was made for the job of chairman, you have to have a pretty thick skin to do the role and take it on, you have to be a good communicator, you need political skills, zest and energy, Steve has had and does have these attributes in abundance, that's why he is a good for the role and has done a good job, that's why I tried to steer the discussion back to the original thread of Celebrity Anglers, its a worthwhile discussion, but if others wish to use it as a chance to lampoon Steve or others, they do Barbel angling no favours.

 

[Fred Bonney]

Hear hear, they are point scorers who feed on others .
Talking of point scorers and feeders,nobody paid for my one barbel that I reported last season! And so what if I did?

---------- Post added at 13:09 ---------- Previous post was at 13:01 ----------

Not only that ,the lies and inuendo spread by some,(no names no pack drill) has to be defended, otherwise they become accepted as fact!

 

[longshaw]

Of course you have to have thick skin when you are promoting something which is a complete anathema to any right minded person who hasn't got any commercial link to Steve as he steers a course headlong into an abyss whilst trousering a few bob in the process on the back of his position.

 

[Fred Bonney]

Of course you have to have thick skin when you are promoting something which is a complete anathema to any right minded person who hasn't got any commercial link to Steve as he steers a course headlong into an abyss whilst trousering a few bob in the process on the back of his position.

I've looked at this post a number of times and waited for an edit, but for the life of me I'm still not certain I understand what is written...
Time for a new script writer methinks!

 

[Steve Pope]

Having given it some thought I feel I must put the poster known as Longshaw right on something.

Apart from the fact that his last post was an absolute disgrace, it is also highly incorrect.

The overwhelming majority of the people who have a days fishing with me have no idea that I am involved with the Barbel Society,indeed I take great pleasure when they do join up which many do.

So the reality is the complete opposite of what was being insinuated.

I would also add that I put up many days as prizes for worthwhile causes during the course of a season.

I decided some time ago never to become embroiled in forum " debate" but I felt this was a point which needed to be made.

Perhaps Longshaw would make a donation to the BS Conservation fund and then I'll happily take him out for a day...................I might learn something!

 

[longshaw]

I have in fact made several donations to the BS Conservation fund (and the Avon roach project) Steve up until the last one when Fred got involved,it's one of the few things that you're still getting right,keep up the good work

I thought the idea of your diary was to promote debate that's why it was so contentious?

You wouldn't learn anything thing from me Steve never had any illusions about my ability