Barbel Fishing – Attacking the Swim

[the blanker]

Originally Posted by sam vimes

How far should we go? How prescriptive should angling get? Codes, guidelines or rules for every last aspect of angling? "You must have a fish cradle, filled with water, big enough for Geoff Capes to lie in". If the states goes down this same road, people accuse it of being nanny. There seems to be a fish welfare competition going on. People desperate to prove that they care more. Naturally, the manufacturers of fish "care" products are only too happy to oblige, and escalate.

There's going to come a point when we paint ourselves so far into a fish welfare corner that we aren't going to be allowed to use hooks.

No competition Sam just doing whatever can be done to minimise the danger of a fish being tethered wheather thats through ignorance or a couldnt care less attitude towards our quarry, i have seen a fish that had been tethered but managed to get free, the damage that had been done by the fish struggling to get free was not something i would care to see again, this on a well known and well run syndicate water in northhampton where you would imagine that the anglers fishing there would have cared more, unfortunately there are still some catch at all costs anglers out there and if their line parts they cannot see the damage they may inflict to a fish ( out of sight out of mind ) we will always inflict some damage on fish by using hooks to catch them but i belive that ALL anglers should have enough respect for their quarry to do ALL that they can to minimise it.

[johnnyfby]

You can all huff and puff about his rig, It is by far the most used rig by match anglers who river fish. If the top anglers use it and they do, the crowd will follow. Just like Barbel anglers, we all like to use the top rig for catching Barbel or very similar, which is generally a safe rig, but you have to get a matchmans view on the loop rig, it works and puts money into your back pocket.
I cant knock the guy really, I used this rig in the 80s and it paid well for me, but I did have the odd crack off on the cast and dreaded a fish picking up a bait and thats why I changed the rig and rethought it out a few years ago whe I came back to river fishing.
So IMO it has a hihj possibility to be a tether rig and the only way to change it will be for existing owners of rivers to change the rules and only accept running/ safe rigs, up until the attitude changes on rigs I cannot foresee any changing a matchmans mind.

really enjoying the debates well done lads....

[Simon K]

Originally Posted by Fred Bonney

On the assumption most anglers can read, manufacturers can put on the packet, this is the only way you should use this........

No need for it on hooks though!

Most manufacturers do put instructions/diagram(s) on the packet of terminal tackle products.

Maybe your first assumption is the one that really needs addressing, Fred?

Many clubs do have a "no fixed rigs" rule, it just needs a few of the more antiquated match-oriented types who run them to haul their collective ass into the present day.

[Fred Bonney]

Originally Posted by Simon K

Most manufacturers do put instructions/diagram(s) on the packet of terminal tackle products.

Maybe your first assumption is the one that really needs addressing, Fred?

Many clubs do have a "no fixed rigs" rule, it just needs a few of the more antiquated match-oriented types who run them to haul their collective ass into the present day.

It's worked then !

As for your second point Si, I was going to say......but I won't! But, I suppose we must always assume the lowest common denominator when passing on information, and ignore those who feel afronted because they know it all?

[Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC)]

Do you think many anglers still use a simple, fixed paternoster arrangement when fishing with a bomb or feeder i.e. make a loop in the main line and tie a four turn water knot, cut the loop to make a link for the feeder and a link to tie the hook length to.

A bit more 'advanced' is the same rig but tied using a single swivel.

In both cases the lead is fixed.

Do you think this is still widely used? (i'm addressing this to anyone)

[Ron The Hat Clay]

Originally Posted by Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC)

Do you think many anglers still use a simple, fixed paternoster arrangement when fishing with a bomb or feeder i.e. make a loop in the main line and tie a four turn water knot, cut the loop to make a link for the feeder and a link to tie the hook length to.

A bit more 'advanced' is the same rig but tied using a single swivel.

In both cases the lead is fixed.

Do you think this is still widely used? (i'm addressing this to anyone)
__________________

The paternoster, or semi-fixed paternoster is one of the most effective rigs ever devised. And as long as you use a weaker paternoster link than the main line, it is safe.

The "Chod Rig" for carp is simply a modern version of the short link paternoster. The link, instead of being fixed directly to the mainline with a swivel, is connected via a "helicopter" arrangement.

I have used paternoster arrangements for as long as I can remember and I can never remember a case where we tethered a fish.

Short link 2 hook paternosters are are used by specialist still water roach fishers.

[the wise one]

Originally Posted by Ron The Hat Clay

The paternoster, or semi-fixed paternoster is one of the most effective rigs ever devised. And as long as you use a weaker paternoster link than the main line, it is safe.

The "Chod Rig" for carp is simply a modern version of the short link paternoster. The link, instead of being fixed directly to the mainline with a swivel, is connected via a "helicopter" arrangement.

I have used paternoster arrangements for as long as I can remember and I can never remember a case where we tethered a fish.
Short link 2 hook paternosters are are used by specialist still water roach fishers.

How would you know if you'd tethered a fish or not?

[Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC)]

Originally Posted by the wise one

How would you know if you'd tethered a fish or not?

That was going to be my first question.

Ron, the question wasn't about how effective a fixed paternoster rig or anything to do with the chod rig (which is not fixed). The question is about how widely used the FIXED paternoster is these days - given that it is fixed and potentially a tether rig.

And how weak a bs does the weak link need to be for a 1lb roach to break free (after a mainline break)?

A week link is effective should a lead get snagged while you are playing a fish and you pull for a break. But what if the mainline breaks? The fish is left snagged.

[Titus]

If this article and the resulting discussion has done anything it is to highlight just how ignorant and unthinking some self styled 'experts' really are about some of the methods, rigs and techniques they use.
Many of them appear never to have had an original thought of their own and simply trot out and regurgitate the same old things the learned at their grandfathers knee.
The ability to question the accepted norm and experiment, innovate and improve is what separates the Richard Walkers, Peter Drennans, Steve Ringers, Danny Fairbrasses (et al) from the rest of us.

[the wise one]

The only fixed paternoster rig I use (four turn water knot, with a weak link) is when small river chub/roach fishing.
I normally use a couple of AA's or a Swan as the weight, and this is pinched on so lightly the the shot often fall off on the retrieve, let alone should, god forbid, a fish break the mainline above the water knot.