Here's The Evidence...Martin Gay's 50lb Common Carp

[cg74]

Cyprinus: Martin didn't report his catches to the Carp Society; he told his friend, Robin Monday, who then told his colleagues in the Carp Society. No formal claim was made. You either believed him or you didn't - that was Martin's view.

Ray said: "You and Eddie have done nothing other than drag Martins name into this, for what reason no one knows. I doubt you know yourself"

Your comment reveals SO much, Ray...

And your closing passage highlights SO much about you...

 

[Lord Paul of Sheffield]

If the big carp were caught in a british lake in 1990 why not name the place now in 2015?

It is unlikely that if the big carp are still in that water they have been there undiscovered or only found by other anglers who have not named the venue in 25 years

 

[ciprinus]

felt the angling world should know, and yes - that the Carp Society, in particular, should know.

????

Cyprinus: Martin didn't report his catches to the Carp Society; he told his friend, Robin Monday, who then told his colleagues in the Carp Society. No formal claim was made. You either believed him or you didn't - that was Martin's view.
I apologize if a particular comment I made was not clear, Cyprinus. Yes, Martin did want the Carp Society to know ...but not for reasons of fame or publicity. It was, shall we say, a gesture.

Cliff, oh Cliffy baby mg: how you writhe and squirm, the implication that MG TOLD the CS is in the above statement for all to read.
yes it may have all happened many years ago but to quote you verbatim, he "quite understandably (if questionably) chose to 'under-report' the weight of the fish"
the words are right there in bold, i can think of quite a few words that would have been more appropriate to use that would not have led to confusion, just what did martin think the angling world should know?

MG "hey peeps i caught a carp"
peeps reply "WOW! mr martin, what did it weigh"?
MG "aint tellin"
peeps "oh ok, where from"?
MG "aint tellin"
peeps "oh ok, what was that stacked behind the fence"?
MG "aint tellin"
peeps "then what was the point of telling me anything"?
MG "nowt really, just wanted to **** off the carp society lads and i think it worked"

for f##ks sake Cliff, that sounds ridiculous doesn't it?
and THAT is why people are finding it hard to believe you, that and the fact that not a lot of posters on here have friends that they would believe implicitly in the face of so much bullshit and evasion the likes of which you and Eddie are propagating on this thread.
please do us, you and Mrs gay a big big favor and close (or better still delete) this whole sorry thread because it is NEVER going to yeald the result that you and Eddie desire.
and i say that with all sincerity Cliff, merry xmas buddy

 

[Michael Loveridge 2]

Mr Daywalker Clarke , these are very harsh words if I may be so bold to say .
Your remarks are very personal.....

It is the season of good will to all men .

 

[Cliff Hatton]

Cyprinus: you came into this 'debate' only quite recently I believe, so you may not be aware of what has gone before. In a previous response to one of your posts I included 4 links to 'major' articles written by Eddie Benham and myself, all of which were factual, honest and based in first-hand knowledge of both the event and Martin Gay himself. Eddie and I seek nothing other than the universal understanding that Martin was cynically discredited by carp fishing's most 'authoritative' body and that none of his commons was caught in Canada.

Eddie and I have, together, spent a great deal of time researching the matter and, as I write, Eddie is still at it. Watch this space. We have provided - for your interest and entertainment - a great many points, facts, times and other information crucial to producing a true and accurate account of what happened back in 89-90 and we're doing very well - for those who take the time to read and evaluate our findings.

It is both telling and, yes, very frustrating to have one's work skimmed over and apparently dismissed without a moment's thought - only the compulsion to unfavourably criticize and, in some cases, to insult. The latest news article highlighted an important anomaly in the 'Canada' theory, the significance of which is quite damning: did you not see this? There have been other equally damning revelations - proof of Martin's case, no less - but, curiously, they've not received a positive comment from the 'regulars' yet. Comments are the life-blood of 'Forums'; how much nicer they would be if they were all of an analytical, constructive nature.

However, there are many thousands of FM readers who choose to read and absorb this story anonymously and they will have made a judgement - one way or the other.

By the way, don't miss Eddie's forthcoming article.

 

[james n]

Your latest article insinuates that because I haven't said something my story is untrue.

Get it into your thick head, the reason I haven't said anymore is because I want nothing else to do with it.

Please stop bringing my name up again and again. I made it clear to you months ago that I didn't want anything to do with you or Eddie after the way you both behaved.

 

[Philip]

Is Yvonne Gay aware of this latest article Cliff?

I realise you were a close friend but as far as i am aware your not family right?

Is Yvonne aware you now talking about direct family members on a public web site?

Given her wish to not be involved do you think she would be happy that Strangers like me now know who "Nate" is due to you broadcasting it here?

Have you told her Cliff and is she aware of how far this has progressed since those initial articles ?

 

[Nobby C (ACA)]

Your latest article insinuates that because I haven't said something my story is untrue.

Get it into your thick head, the reason I haven't said anymore is because I want nothing else to do with it.

Please stop bringing my name up again and again. I made it clear to you months ago that I didn't want anything to do with you or Eddie after the way you both behaved.

Well stop posting then. I read your Cemex post and you were a lot more sure of events then. Now you retract all your statements and start being aggressive. I for one won't miss you, have fun in the Cemex playground. Happy Christmas.

 

[Cliff Hatton]

Cyprinus said: "...so much bullshit and evasion the likes of which you and Eddie are propagating on this thread"

Care to expand on that, Cyprinus? As explained in my lengthy post (above) Eddie and I have spent a great deal of time researching this subject and have devoted a fairly significant part of our lives to exposing the Carp Society stitch-up. Clearly you have developed a deep interest in all of this since entering the debate so I'm concerned about what you perceive as "bullshit" and "evasion". There has been none of either, I assure you, from either of us. Indeed, much of Eddie's articles has been based on the extensive records he's kept since 1989. He has been able to prove and disprove so much of what has been stated and alleged from articles and letters in his possession. His archive material is not "bullshit". Neither was his 30 year friendship with Martin "bullshit".
My friendship with Martin goes back even further than Eddie's so I am in a position to state categorically that few people knew him better - and I don't lie. Or "bullshit". In your reply, Cyprinus, would you be kind enough to explain what it is we are supposed to be 'evading'? Eddie and I are honest men with absolutely nothing to hide. What, do you think, we might be trying to evade? Eddie was a financial controller during his working life, and I wasn't appointed editor of this website on the strength of my evasiveness or ability to "bullshit". Naturally, we are both concerned about your remark. Please give us as full an explanation as you can, Cyprinus. Thank you.We look forward to your reply.

 

[Nobby C (ACA)]

It seems entirely plausible to me that MG wanted to stick two fingers up at the CS clique. And given PS' replies (or should that be BS?) In the FW forum thread, I can see why. Self important bank tramps bigging each other up and nothing more. Just where does the CS stand today with their handful of members? MG was spot on in his assessment.

 

[geoffmaynard]

That is pretty much how MG explained it to me Nobby - not that I ever questioned him about things - but in telephone conversations I had with him, he was very disdainful of the CS and clearly wanted nothing to do with them.

 

[Cliff Hatton]

Amazing isn't it? I reveal that 12 good anglers saw the untouched photos before Robin Monday did (producing the unanimous agreement that the shots contained nothing in the way of mountains) and almost immediately 1) Paul Selman alters his 25 year "one million per cent" certainty of British Columbia and a mountainous backdrop to the pics despite never seeing them and 2) ...bizarrely states ("one million per cent" of course) that the modified pics conceal parts of Lennox Power Station, 2,000 miles from BC. 3) Robin Monday suddenly starts talking about 'rocks' in the pic's for the very first time and 4) an on-the-spot correspondent in Ontario suddenly pops up - and he lives across the road from Martin Gay's relatives! He tells us that Martin's nephew told him he'd seen his uncle return from the lake "...white and visibly shaking" after seeing some big carp but is unable to report Martin's nephew seeing his Uncle Martin return from the lake during that same fortnight's visit rejoicing at catching half a TON of carp.

They were all living under the same roof for two and a half weeks: how can there possibly be a report of "...white and visibly shaking" WITHOUT a subsequent "Joyous and red-faced with excitement at making such a fantastic catch"?

It's a great shame that at this time of rekindled interest, JamesN (the Ontario correspondent) would prefer to stay out of the picture...

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

Mr Daywalker Clarke , these are very harsh words if I may be so bold to say .
Your remarks are very personal.....

It is the season of good will to all men .

Personal ??, you should try looking at the thread before you say I am getting personal.

Who is it dragging Martins name in the Mud, then telling us they CAN NOT PROVE where the fish came from, don't have the correct weight.

So ask your good self, why are they bothering ???

As I said long ago, ONLY one man knows the facts, and sadly he is no longer with us.

Martins wife, it has been said, will not reveal the water, and isn't dragging this along.

You could have 100 anglers look at photo's and say it's an English water, but the FACTS ARE, they don't know either way. Being a good angler doesn't mean anything if you don't know where the water was.

I could show you pictures of Carp, and you wouldn't be able to tell if they where caught in the UK or not.

The only people getting personal are Cliff and Eddie, by using Martin's name, writing poor articles, and i wonder if Martin's wife even knows ???

As i also said long ago, its pointless, as they CAN NOT PROVE A THING.

---------- Post added at 15:51 ---------- Previous post was at 15:44 ----------

Amazing isn't it? I reveal that 12 good anglers saw the untouched photos before Robin Monday did (producing the unanimous agreement that the shots contained nothing in the way of mountains) and almost immediately 1) Paul Selman alters his 25 year "one million per cent" certainty of British Columbia and a mountainous backdrop to the pics despite never seeing them and 2) ...bizarrely states ("one million per cent" of course) that the modified pics conceal parts of Lennox Power Station, 2,000 miles from BC. 3) Robin Monday suddenly starts talking about 'rocks' in the pic's for the very first time and 4) an on-the-spot correspondent in Ontario suddenly pops up - and he lives across the road from Martin Gay's relatives! He tells us that Martin's nephew told him he'd seen his uncle return from the lake "...white and visibly shaking" after seeing some big carp but is unable to report Martin's nephew seeing his Uncle Martin return from the lake during that same fortnight's visit rejoicing at catching half a TON of carp.

They were all living under the same roof for two and a half weeks: how can there possibly be a report of "...white and visibly shaking" WITHOUT a subsequent "Joyous and red-faced with excitement at making such a fantastic catch"?

It's a great shame that at this time of rekindled interest, JamesN (the Ontario correspondent) would prefer to stay out of the picture...

James N wants to stay out of the picture, you only have to look at your other article, and his last post on here. Sums it all up.

Best this is closed by the mods, as i can see this getting out of hand very quickly, as you can't prove a thing.

Seems James may know a little more, but wants to stay out of it, nothing wrong with that. He clearly doesn't want anything to do with you or Eddie,

I WONDER WHY ?

 

[Cliff Hatton]

Ray: your post reveals, in the truest, non-derogatory sense, a profound ignorance of what this investigation has been all about. To understand it and to enable good, constructive comment, I would recommend going back over the articles written by Eddie Benham and myself.

I quote you again, Ray: "You and Eddie have done nothing other than drag Martins name into this, for what reason no one knows. I doubt you know yourself"

Eddie's latest article will be shown very, very shortly. You will be able to pit your judgement against that of some rather eminent individuals...

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

Ray: your post reveals, in the truest, non-derogatory sense, a profound ignorance of what this investigation has been all about. To understand it and to enable good, constructive comment, I would recommend going back over the articles written by Eddie Benham and myself.

I quote you again, Ray: "You and Eddie have done nothing other than drag Martins name into this, for what reason no one knows. I doubt you know yourself"

Eddie's latest article will be shown very, very shortly. You will be able to pit your judgement against that of some rather eminent individuals...

Cliff,

You CANT PROVE A THING,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,FACT.

You only have hear say, nothing more.

I Repeat,

You don't know the venue,

You don't have a correct weight

You don't have photo's

I have been over this, and it's a story, without FACTS. Who said what, when, were means nothing.

I don't care if you have the so called best anglers in the world backing your STORY, you and they have no PROOF…………………….FACT.

Until you do, it means NOTHING. Never did, never will.

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

Ray: your post reveals, in the truest, non-derogatory sense, a profound ignorance of what this investigation has been all about.

Eddie's latest article will be shown very, very shortly. You will be able to pit your judgement against that of some rather eminent individuals...

The ONLY PROFOUND IGNORANCE in this thread has come from Eddie and yourself, in the fact, Well !! YOU HAVE NO FACTS. That has to be the highest Ignorance of all.

As for the eminent individuals, again, it's all hear say, none of them were there, so again NO PROOF.

Like i said, you could show 100 anglers a photo, without the facts, just a story, as with this thread, many could say it's in England, many could say it's else where.

The articles show NO PROOF, and even now, IF, Martins wife did come forward and name the water, show the pictures, there still isn't a correct weight. Add to that, it's been pointed out, that a common carp of a bigger weight had been caught at that time, and further more, proved.

So nothing Historic at all.

That is all i have left to say, and all i have given is FACTS, NOT FICTION.