The Enchanting Killer

honslow

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It actually happened Fred. I can't remember the facts but will now go out of my way to find out the finite details, and speak to the owner of the fish farm, just to prove a point. Don't want a job with the Sun or the Mail thanks, only ever wanted to be a hack on AT. Yes, it does beggar belief what some people have done in the name of conservation doesn't it?!

---------- Post added at 13:20 ---------- Previous post was at 13:08 ----------

Or maybe I should go for a job on the Telegraph:
Freed otters massacre farm trout - Telegraph
How do you like your egg on face Fred? Sunny side up?
More next week if you need it.....
 

The bad one

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It actually happened Fred. I can't remember the facts but will now go out of my way to find out the finite details, and speak to the owner of the fish farm, just to prove a point. Don't want a job with the Sun or the Mail thanks, only ever wanted to be a hack on AT. Yes, it does beggar belief what some people have done in the name of conservation doesn't it?!

---------- Post added at 13:20 ---------- Previous post was at 13:08 ----------

Or maybe I should go for a job on the Telegraph:
Freed otters massacre farm trout - Telegraph
How do you like your egg on face Fred? Sunny side up?
More next week if you need it.....

Seems a little bit of inconsistency here Greg
Quote Yours That's why the owner of a trout farm in Oxfordshire awoke one morning to find three of the blighters gnawing their way through his fish. Apparently the Otter Trust had dumped a number of otters (somewhere between 10 and 20 - accounts vary) in one spot a few miles away just days beforehand!!!

Quote Fish farmer "He said: "I have heard there are up to 19 pairs of hand-reared otters which have been released by the Otter Trust. These otters are behaving like urban foxes, biting chunks out of my fish indiscriminately." He said he and his two children regularly look out of their kitchen window at breakfast time on the Gloucestershire farm and see otters playing just 20 feet away."

Now when did Gloucestershire move to Oxfordshire Greg? And do the people of Gloucestershire know?

I once heard that Elvis was still alive but found out this was not true. :D

Now was that 38 animals on the Cotswold WP the whole of Gloucestershire, Gloucestershire/Oxfordshire or the SW? Doesn't say???
What we do know is they only released 117 otters nationally. That's a third 'dumped,' your words, on this guys doorstep according to him in 2000.
We also know they only released 17 animals in Oxfordshire in total by 1999. I also know from personal communication, they only released 5 animals around the Cotswold area circa 97.
Something doesn't add up :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

coelacanth

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How do you like your egg on face Fred? Sunny side up?
More next week if you need it.....

"said 30 per cent of his organically reared trout stocks had been killed by otters"

30%? That an exact figure, or just what was claimed? How was it assessed? By whom?
Bit **** really if you have a fishery with associated stock pools in Gloucestershire and don't adequately protect it against aquatic/terrestrial predators from the start. It's a put-and-take there anyway, so the otters took.

"stocked as a "big fish" water
average stocking size of six pounds
double-figure fish introduced every day (> 30lbs)"

Nice. I'll stick with my 9" Pennine stream wildies, ta. If an otter takes a few of them there'll be more next year. Snobbery? Yeah, don't care.

"I have heard there are up to 19 pairs of hand-reared otters which have been released by the Otter Trust"

I have heard a lot of things, doesn't mean they're true.

"These otters are behaving like urban foxes, biting chunks out of my fish indiscriminately"

What does that mean? Do urban foxes bite chunks out of fish indiscriminately? How are the otters behaving like urban foxes? Could they launch an attack in 45 minutes?

"it is not good to release several in one place which may have happened here"

Several (not "10 or 20"). May have happened.

I'd say the egg's still in the pan myself.
 

honslow

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Ok, my geography's pap! Egg's on my face.
I said more next week... The EA knows about this, one of the last releases, and they were very put out by it. Unfortunately, I can't find the email from six months ago that referred to it, hence the delay.
Basically, there was a mass release of otters somewhere in the Thames catchment all in one go - I thought it was in Oxfordshire, but might just as easily been Gloucestershire (my memory is sometimes a bit suspect - I get the broad gist but get hazy about the detail if I don't check my notes). The example serves a point, that's all. But I will attempt to find out the details again following Fred's slur.
Meanwhile, what's the BS doing about the issue, other than ignoring it and risking losing more members? Stocking more free snack-sized offerings into the Stour? Pre-baiting for tarkas....
 

jimmy crackedcorn

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I had a brief, and I mean brief glance through t'internet re: the otters natural predators, which is surely the best method of control. They include killer whales (one can munch through 1825 in a year) and wolves (which could make a trip to your local commercial VERY interesting). The biggest predator on young sea otters is the sea eagle, which I believe has been reintroduced to northern scotland (after we wiped them out as well) so it would be iteresting to sea what happens up there.
 

Steve Spiller

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Greg, in 1999 17 were released into the headwaters of the Thames. Not sure if that's what you're looking for?
 

Bluenose

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Meanwhile, what's the BS doing about the issue, other than ignoring it and risking losing more members?

Greg trawl back through your official barbel society mags and you'll see Mr Pope broached this very subject some 3-4 years ago and I think got a bit of grief in the process.

I know this because I got a few back copies as a freebie at the Cheshire BS gig quite recently. So with the greatest respect, to say the BS has ignored the problem isn't quite true.
 

Jeff Woodhouse

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It seems that everyone has had a fair say on this topic and much as I normally wouldn't want to, I'm closing this thread.

Please, all of you, remember that everyone, whatever their position or category displayed beneath their names is voicing their own personal opinion on these forums and not those of Fishingmagic or it's owners or the software producers.

Also remember that the bottom line is, we are all anglers together and despite our differences of opinion, we may very need each other for strength one day. By all mean state your opinion and you if disagree with someone else's then answer them in a polite manner.

This thread will now be closed. Thanks for your contributions.
 

Sean Meeghan

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Interesting debate chaps. I take it Paul has now retired to dream of electric otters.

Here's an interesting link

Here's some research

Here's an example of relasing otters from elsewhere into an area that already has a viable population

I could go on but hey all you people expressing opinions have probably done your own research: you have haven't you?

Whilst I'm very worried about the numbers of otters on the Yorkshire rivers I'm not sure that there is anything that we can do whilst local and national givernment depart ments are taking the stance seen in my first link. My own view is that we need to be patient and let 'Malthus' take his course. I've read various estimates of the range of male otters (remeber this inclueds mother and babies as well) but 7 to 16 Km seems to be the norm. My own observations on the Swale at the moment show a population density of 2 to 3 times the lower of the above figures ie a holt at least every 2 miles.

Whether this is just the advance wave of young otters being forced from their birth territories or whether there is sufficient biomass to support them at this density at the moment I can't say.

And I'm afraid that is the problem - no-one can really say until the populations have settled and some definitice research has been done. In the meantime I'm going to continue to enjoy my fishing - wild trout anyone? :p

---------- Post added at 13:25 ---------- Previous post was at 13:19 ----------

Oh and South Yorks won't be spared! Google Sheffield Otters (can't make link work).

Most of these species action plans are several years old now and a fair amount of work has already been done
 
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Paul Boote

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"No trees were harmed in the posting of this message, but an awful lot of electrons were terribly inconvenienced!"


Now, did you bully those electrons, Sean? If so, I'll get my pet charidee onto you!
 

Specihunter

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Until you get a rod in your hand Sean.

---------- Post added at 18:28 ---------- Previous post was at 18:16 ----------

Now when did Gloucestershire move to Oxfordshire Greg? And do the people of Gloucestershire know?

Yeah when Dr Beeching shut the Oxford to Fairford branch line and my Grand parents and dad moved from Fairford to Didcot in Oxfordshire.
 

Nathan Walter

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A very thought provoking article. Its very sad that these animals are so destructive as they are truly beautiful. However the fact remains that they are very, very damaging to fisheries and should be shot. There, I think that makes my position clear.

Of course we can all call for moderation, patience, restraint, whilst some pussy foot around the issue and worry about what the general public might think. Meanwhile the otter munches his way through anything he can get hold of, causing untold damage to certain fisheries, just like the dear old cormorant.

They died out from much of England and therefore should have been left. Once you re-introduce an apex predator into a environment that has not seen one for 40 or 50 years you're asking for trouble. A very irresponsible act on the part of the Otter Trust, the Government (who I guess allowed this to happen) and any one else who was involved. If a company had done this and caused serious damage and loss of income to any individual they would be held to account and sued.

Everyone has their own opinion to which they are entitled, including mine. I'm fed up with this "oh but what can we do, people will be upset, they are all luvlly wuvlly wittle furwy things". Bullshit, their killers, Apex predators, They kill anything they can eat from birds, frogs, mice, voles, rats and even moles oh and most of all fish and lots of em.

Still some are right and the public opinion is stacked against us. People build otter holts and bloody otter trails. What do they see.....nothing. Most of the time the otter comes out at night, so remain unseen on the whole, except by anglers. Great.

Hopefully most of them will get run over on busy roads. Am I being selfish....yes just like all human beings are, otherwise there'd be no poverty in the world, no rain forests would be cut down and the seas wouldn't be raped for our food. I could go on but what's the point.
 

Cakey

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Nathan I think you are a ***** there, I think that makes my position clear.
after 4 posts youve now fed the antis or are you an anti ?
THERE ARE LOTS MORE PREDS OUT THERE THAN THE POOR OTTER

LEAVE THE OTTERS ALONE !
 
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Nathan Walter

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Next time we'll discuss it a broom cupboard near scunthorpe, just in case anyones looking in. Shhhh someone might be watching...... :eek:
 
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Cakey

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like I said there are more preds than just the poor otter at least be fair and shoot the lot !:wh
 
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