FishingMagic Forums


Go Back   FishingMagic Forums > FRESHWATER FISHING FORUMS > General Fishing
Register Forums Blogs Classifieds FAQ Calendar Arcade Search Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 24-01-2011, 14:37
Member
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 291
Fred Blake is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron The Hat Clay View Post
You know I just might do something daft!

I might get myself a kit and make myself a Mk IV carp rod for old time sake, and do a bit of classic carp fishing with it.

Come on chaps, tell me I've gone off my trolley?
Go for it. A ten foot cane rod is not heavy, and would probably sit in rests much of the time anyway. It'll play fish as well (if not better) than a carbon equivalent. No, it won't throw a PVA bag and four ounce lead to the horizon, but contrary to popular belief, not all carp are that far from the bank.

I still use my two MkIVs for some seriously big carp in a six acre syndicate water. They do eveything I ask of them. When that forty-pound common I saw three years ago picks up my bait (and it will, sooner or later) I shall have no concerns at all about the rod, or the line (cane rods absorb shocks so much better than carbon ones).

Just remember to get your cane from Chapmans!
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 24-01-2011, 16:11
flightliner's Avatar
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: south yorkshire
Posts: 2,524
Blog Entries: 1
flightliner is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Boote View Post
PS - still use my home-made versions of Billy's very fine floats, though.
I still have one or two of the originals with the superfine bottom eyes that allowed a bait to sink really slowly when used as a slider-- Deadly on the Witham for roach and bream in the days when angling was angling. I still have my old Ernest Stamford swing tip rod-- now theres a rod that won more matches than any other!!
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 24-01-2011, 18:44
 

Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Rotherham South Yorkshire
Posts: 32,332
Blog Entries: 1
Ron The Hat Clay is a jewel in the roughRon The Hat Clay is a jewel in the roughRon The Hat Clay is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Blake View Post
Go for it. A ten foot cane rod is not heavy, and would probably sit in rests much of the time anyway. It'll play fish as well (if not better) than a carbon equivalent. No, it won't throw a PVA bag and four ounce lead to the horizon, but contrary to popular belief, not all carp are that far from the bank.

I still use my two MkIVs for some seriously big carp in a six acre syndicate water. They do eveything I ask of them. When that forty-pound common I saw three years ago picks up my bait (and it will, sooner or later) I shall have no concerns at all about the rod, or the line (cane rods absorb shocks so much better than carbon ones).

Just remember to get your cane from Chapmans!
Why do cane rods absorbs shocks better than carbon Fred, and what's wrong with Agutter blanks?

I would like to hear the theory behind that one.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 24-01-2011, 20:21
chav professor's Avatar
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk
Posts: 2,952
chav professor is on a distinguished road
Default

Ahhh! let the vintage cane, take the strain!! I don't know about cane rods absorbing shocks better, just that a modern carp rod can be anything from 2.75 to 3.5lb testcurve. The MK4 is 1.5lb. If you read Dicks account of landing Ravioloi (laterly known as Clarissa) it did take both himself and Peter Thomas to land it and and it did involve a lot of handlining as it weeded itself twice.

I would like to go up against a 40lb carp with my MK4, but I am anxious my skills would be equal to the job. It was designed when carp fishing was in its infancy and a fish of twenty pounds was a fish of a lifetime. If I had the money, I would like a stepped up version, maybe 1.75lb test..... just a thought....
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 25-01-2011, 09:03
 

Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Rotherham South Yorkshire
Posts: 32,332
Blog Entries: 1
Ron The Hat Clay is a jewel in the roughRon The Hat Clay is a jewel in the roughRon The Hat Clay is a jewel in the rough
Default

And now the truth about the Mk IV carp rod.

Oh and before I get onto that, the concept of the test curve is flawed; in theory it can't exist, in practice, an approximation of a TC is the best we can achieve to determine the power of a fishing rod.

The original MkIV was named thus as it was the fourth attempt at a rod that would be ideal for all round carp fishing as it was known then. Previous marks had incorporated chopped down Wallis Avons and double built split cane jobs. The Mk III was double built and used by Dick to land his 34 pounder.

When B James started making Mk IVs it was to Dick's original dimensions. But because a 44 pound fish had been landed on this rod, it was thought that it could be used for all sorts of other species weighing up to 40 pounds or therebouts. This was absolutely untrue. I saw a B James Mk IV get smashed by a pike whilst boat fishing on a Yorkshire lake in the 60s.

And to be honest, a lot of B James split cane was sub standard.

So what did they do?

They increased the dimensions by something like 10%, which upped the theoretical test curve to 2 lbs and made a rod that would stand a bit of abuse, something that the original would not.

Read Kevin Clifford's excellent book - "A History of Carp Fishing".
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 25-01-2011, 12:35
Member
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 291
Fred Blake is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron The Hat Clay View Post
Why do cane rods absorbs shocks better than carbon Fred, and what's wrong with Agutter blanks?

I would like to hear the theory behind that one.
Consider the question from the opposite end Ron. It is perfectly possible to make three rods of identical power, action and length from each of the three main materials - cane, glass and carbon. But are they the same? No. The carbon one will feel stiffer than the cane one, because carbon reacts faster to deflection. This is why carbon is so good for rods intended for long casting and striking at distance - it doesn't absorb as much energy as the older materials, resulting in more of the power being transmitted to the lead/flyline. Conversely, for playing a fish, you want a rod that can absorb some of the energy and cushion the shocks - a rod that smooths out the peaks and troughs if you like.

One could design a carbon rod to be softer than its cane equivalent by a pre-determined amount, in order to cancel out the inherent stiffness of the material, but then you end up with a rod that is a little too soft to control the fish close in, and lacking in resilience in the tip to strike a big hook home properly.

I merely suggest Chapmans cane on the basis that they will furnish you with a top quality blank with the correct taper for a MkIV. Other makers exist, and you are free to use whoever you prefer.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 25-01-2011, 12:51
Lord Paul of Sheffield's Avatar

 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Furkum Hall, Sheffield
Posts: 15,829
Lord Paul of Sheffield will become famous soon enoughLord Paul of Sheffield will become famous soon enough
Default

how much would it cost to build such a cane rod Ron?
__________________
PaSC British by birth, English by the grace of God
I got the devil in my blood,Telling' me what to do
(And I'm all ears), Britain's premier bread angler
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 25-01-2011, 13:45
the indifferent crucian's Avatar
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: A sleepy pool in deepest Surrey
Posts: 856
the indifferent crucian is on a distinguished road
Default

I think the Walker Mark 1 was a chopped down Allcocks Wizard, Ron, not a Hardy FWK Wallis Avon, which are quite different rods.

Perversely they'd both be worth a fortune now....provided the top twelve inches hadn't been cut off.


Here's a bit by angling historian, carp angler and all-round good bloke Chris Ball.....


http://bruceandwalker.co.uk/library/...ticles%201.pdf


Sorry it's a PDF file.

The remainder of the article, including as picture of a 'built to endure' rod with Walker's signature can be found here...go to the bottom of the page and open the PDF files supplied on the right.


Bruce and Walker

---------- Post added at 13:45 ---------- Previous post was at 13:35 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Paul of Sheffield View Post
how much would it cost to build such a cane rod Ron?
That would rather depend on the fittings you chose to add and how much you were able to do yourself. A bare cane blank without ferrules and cork handle fitted is a good deal cheaper than one with this fiddly work already done. Cheapest of all is a built-cane blank still in the string that bound it, but it still needs straightening .


If you purchased a rod that only required the rings whipping on and any further decorative whippings before varnishing you would have to pay more. Probably over £250.
__________________
The Indifferent Crucian.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 25-01-2011, 14:03
Lord Paul of Sheffield's Avatar

 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Furkum Hall, Sheffield
Posts: 15,829
Lord Paul of Sheffield will become famous soon enoughLord Paul of Sheffield will become famous soon enough
Default

lot of money still compared to a modern of the peg rod
__________________
PaSC British by birth, English by the grace of God
I got the devil in my blood,Telling' me what to do
(And I'm all ears), Britain's premier bread angler
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 25-01-2011, 14:12
Member
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 291
Fred Blake is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Paul of Sheffield View Post
lot of money still compared to a modern of the peg rod
Lot of rod compared to a modern 'off the peg' one as well! You pays your money...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Old Billy Lane books...recommended ! Lee Dobson Coarse Fishing 13 01-08-2008 18:03










Loading



All times are GMT. The time now is 17:02.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
Clubs vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
2002-2014 Fish&Fly Ltd