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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2003, 20:27
Dave Rothery
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not just the indian ocean that gets big swells........EEEEEEK!
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2003, 21:05
Budgie Burgess
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In all fairness to the Continentals they are targetting small fish in very little tide.Their approach works for them.Compettition wise they have regularly hammered our national team untill this year when our squad adopted their tactics!

A lot of people can cast "150" and "200m" very few cast measured 150+s though.

Moncrief most likely forgot more about sea fishing than I will ever know BUT his theories on LDC and rod design were fundementaly flawed!It was amazing that he achieved the distances he did with the "Spring Heel/Butt)rod he designed.Love to see what he could have done with a 13'Hi Carbon butted modern Pendulum rod with the low reel position.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2003, 22:08
Ron Troversial Clay
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For several years I used an 11 1/2 foot rod made with a stiff composite carbon butt and a Fenwick glass top section. It had a fairly fast taper but was forgiving enough for a person of my build. I never used a Moncrieff type rod although I could see what he was getting at.

A lot of surf anglers do not possess the physique to cast with some of the "brute sticks" I have seen some South African lock forward types, cast over 200 metres with ease.

In fact I beleive that some years ago it was a South African who held the shore casting record. It was a tremendous distance with normal fishing gear, not shock leaders with 6 lb backing.

I will investigate the matter.

Personally I have had measured, over a rugby field, a cast I made using the gear I have described. It went 152 metres but I was in my late 20s at the time and boy, was I fit.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2003, 00:25
jason fisher
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once did a 150+ when i was about 20 but i was also playing number 8 at rugby at the time
it went from the try line of one pitch to half way down the next pitch along in the park.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2003, 18:17
Ron Troversial Clay
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Jason you must be William Webb Ellis re-incarnated.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2003, 22:19
Colin North, the one and only
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You lot talking about Moncrief reminded me that I have a Moncrief rod by B James in my cupboard and I just measured the distance from the butt to the top end of the reel seat! What do you reckon? 43 inches!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I believe that Les was local(ish)to me, although I never met him. I do know that he was a very large man which suggests that his secret may have had as much to do with his strength as anything else.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2003, 23:18
Ron Troversial Clay
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Very true. I met Les Moncrief who at the time was chatting with Dick Walker at an angling exhibition at Earls court in the 60s. He was truly a giant among men and even made Dick Walker seem small.

I have never been able to handle a beachcaster with the reel up the rod. To cast a good distance you need your right hand, your best hand uncluttered by having to hold the spool or to feather it. This actions are best performed with your left hand.

Having the reel low down on the rod became known as the South African Style (there I go again) When you are prancing around on rocks, the last thing you want is 40 odd inches of butt sticking out behind you!
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2003, 02:14
Budgie Burgess
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The length of the butt,which stoped the effective use of the "punch and pull"(the final application of power in any efficient style )wasnt the only problem.The reverse taper of the butt just swallowed up any energy put in as opposed to transfering it to the lead via the tip.

Also not so sure that strength/size is all that important.One of the most recent sucsessfull tournement guys is Neil MacKellow yes he is a big guy and does very well with the long rod low reel combination but if you look at his equal less than a decade before,Paul Kerry,he is a dwarf! he used the origonal Pendulum set up of a 11 1/2' rod with the high reel position.Paul is possibly the fastest caster ever.It has been theorised that the faster the casting action the more crucial the timing and style.The longer rod lends itself to a slower action and is a bit more forgiving.The low reel position is as Ron says good with these rods as you can feed more power in with your right hand and leave your left to control the reel.It also balances out the long rod a lot better.The key to sucsees is definately style and timing,the smoother the power flow the better.This is why a good caster makes it look so easy and effort less.
One style that I have noticed larger guys do tend to do better in is one we havnt mentioned yet and that is the "Yarmouth" or "Backcast" Here the 14'+ rod reigns supreme and strangely the fixed spool is prefered by most of its exponents.All though very similar to the Pendulum this is a much more forgiving style due once again to its far slower action.Really excells when you have to chuck a big lead ie 7ozs+ Not been asked to teach this one for years shame very effective.I think it origonally went out of favour as the old 14'+ fibreglass tip and duraliumn butt rods coupled with big fixed spools,that the style called for were no where near as nice to fish with as the 11 1/2' and multiplier combo.Another interesting thing that came with the "South African" style (back in the 70's) was the "Bazooka" rod anyone remember those?
Oh BTW Ron the 6lb mainline line and leader aproach I refered too was/is used by continentals sea anglers and carp anglers.The standard for beach anglers is 15lb or more accurately 0.35mm diameter mainlines.The tournement world,in order to keep it more in touch with fishing, has adopted this along with the 150gm (5 1/4ozs) lead for its main event/record requirement.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2003, 11:51
jason fisher
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it was a cast ron not a kick the bit about playing rugby was i was fitter and stronger than i am now i had the physique to control it. i was practicing on the local rugby pitches who use to allow me to becaues there was no one around to get hurt and i played for the club.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2003, 16:28
Ron Troversial Clay
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If I did any surfcasting again, I would definetly use a fixed spool reel, a big bait-runner set low on the rod with a left hand wind. Fixed spool reels have come a long way since the days of the 70s and make no mistake are capable of handling very big fish.

I fact some of the big Shimanos, in the right hands are capable of chucking well over 100 metres, without the necessity of learning complex casting techniques.

12 feet would be the maximum length I would recommend for any rod. 11 feet being perhaps the optimum length for the average built angler. Too much is made of long distance casting. It's the same in fly fishing. Learn to cast a reasonable distance and learn to do it so that you can fish enjoyably, without stress, for long sessions.

Average casters, I have found, catch more fish. It's a fact that knowing WHERE to cast is far more important.
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