Long awaited report on the Gt Ouse

[The bad one]

Geoff at the risk of subverting this into a Wye salmon thread, as a salmon river it’s Fc Uked mate! And for this reason, the river temperature in headwaters are not dropping to the required temperatures for spawning and fry survival to be successful because of climate change. There’s now clear evidence there’s a northern shift to the most successful rivers in this regard. The dividing line falls somewhere around the Welsh River Dee. That dividing line is only going keep moving northward as climate change becomes more severe.
As to a summary still reading it mate!
Someone said, its PhD thesis which is correct, it is. But was paid for and supported by the EA under contract to Hull Uni to do the research that they wanted, as they no longer have the manpower resource in-house due to cuts. So such research goes out to contract to consultancies and academic institutions to bid for. That’s the way in the modern world.
The Lass doing the research on it would be a post graduate researcher at HU who may have been working towards a PhD. And/or brought in specifically to do the research with the offer of getting a PhD out of it from HU. Which clearly she did, along with a job with the EA, because it’s now Dr Karen Twine. Good on you girl is my thoughts!
To clear up some confusion that’s crept in on reports there are two types - Technical and Scientific. Technical Reports have summaries to them, Scientific Reports don’t, they have Abstracts. An as the author submitted her findings report for her PhD, she wrote it as a Scientific Report. To do otherwise would have meant a likely fail.

 

[thecrow]

I used to believe in this too. However on the Wye I have watched as scientific salmon reports have been gerrymandered and warped into supporting a govt agenda which results in little more than merely a gravy-train for the local river trust. Every year we have enthusiastic babblings about huge improvements, backed up by cherry-picked 'data' to support the narrative.
The facts (as reported by the anglers) are different, millions of pounds have been spent to little effect.

A the risk of getting a rocket from Phil perhaps someone who has the time to do so can give us an unbiased edited version of what the report says?

Who pays for these reports Geoff? wouldn't happen to be those that will profit from them would it?

 

[geoffmaynard]

Who pays for these reports Geoff? wouldn't happen to be those that will profit from them would it?

Er... no. That would be you and me, and the other taxpayers who pay.

 

[benny samways]

That thesis has been available for well over a year. There is another phd student doing one right now.

Twice i was fishing and Karen came along with her tracking equipment, and twice I had one of her tagged barbel in my swim! I didnt catch on each of those occassions although i did catch 2 of the tagged fish on other trips.

Since the start of the study over 20 thousand barbel have been stocked into the Ouse, a metaphorical plaster if you ask me.

If you do bother to read it all, it is interesting, especially with respect to where barbel move in the winter and their preference for bankside cover too. But her study has not lead to any significant habitat improvemnt other than spray cleaning a select few spawning beds.

The river doesnt contain enough food to support fish stocks. Agricultural practises and water treatment seems to strip away whats needed to support micro organisms which in turn support the bug life which would be the food for the fish. Subsequently we get a bottlenecking in fish populations, small fish dont have the food to turn into medium sized fish. The few that make it medium size then have btter odds a making it to big size which us anglers are more thean happy to catch.

This, coupled with a river bed which wont support spawning due to silt has got us to the stage we are at today.

The latest Ea report for the ouse shows biomass has decreased by 8%, i wonder if thats life disapearing or fish life that had been replaced by crays?

 

[The bad one]

Thanks for the update Benny. As with all research, one report drags in more money and further areas of research, hence another PhD student working on it. It's what we do with the information when its been researched to death.
Out of interest do you know what this new research is looking into?

 

[benny samways]

Great Ouse (Newport Pagnell to Bedford) 2014 Report

Above is a link to the ea report.

I dont know much about the new phd research, but at the bottom of the report (p26>) there is a good sumary. From what it says alot more could come of this study than the previous one (that is not meant as a criticism of Karen's study).

Page 25 shows the amount of fish they have stocked into the Ouse. Its ridiculous that the river needs to be stocked.

 

[wanderer]

There is an enigma here Benny, the fish seem to grow massive in the Ouse but breeding seems to be a failure, so on one hand the environment seems perfect but on the other hand it looks like a non starter. The Ouse is a fantastic river, so many changes in nature through its length, i doubt Barbel were ever originally present in this river but from a sporting aspect, its worth restocking. Off topic a little but i ask you guys if you beleive the record will be broken and from where, the thinning of numbers on the Severn, the Teme, the Hampshire chalk streams or the northern rivers, my bet is the Hertfordshire Lea, my mate Stevie Brooks had a 16 pound 2 ounce late summer that was published in the Anglers Mail, but i still hold out a hope that my beloved Rivers the Nene and the Ouse will turn up a rare result.

 

[benny samways]

The Great Ouse is an eastern flowing river and is one of the few rivers in the country of which barbel would be considred indigenous. Although a small stocking took place in the 70s and it is thought these fish started the barbel boom ( these were Severn fish which inturn were Kennet fish).

Fish will eat different food sources at different stages of their lives, and id wager that the food needed for medium sized fish is sparse. Hence the bottle necking, those that do survive then have very little competition and get big.

As the big barbel die off they leave a gap which is filled by small fish ( imo, thats why we have seen an explosion of small silvers over the last few years due to the big barbel dying off) these small fish will struggle to make medium size and the cycle continues (imo).

Next summer wade out into the gravels and lift some stones and see what bug life you can find. Very, very little id bet when it should be teeming with life.

 

[wanderer]

I might be wrong on this Benny, but i thought the original stocking was from the Stour, athough you say they should be indigenous, maybe they were a century ago but the River has changed in nature over the years. The Nene gets a regular stocking but this end nothing much in evidence, have seen a couple from the Cogenhoe stretch but of no size. Further down fish up to 17 pounds plus have been caught, all the weirs are likely spots, i do hope the river recovers, it takes some beating for its beauty in places, nice to bag a biggy with your picnic.

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

From what i scanned of the report, it suggested silting up of the spawning grounds and various pollutants responsible, some habitats just dont seem to promote fry surviving. The Ouse is fall of crays and predatory fish, all will eat fry and spawn, the Barbel have never been present in huge numbers, just a small head of very large fish, probably do not have the spawning capacity to ensure the proliferation by overwhelming the predators with volume, i believe the Wensum has a similar problem but thats only heresay. The Otters have been a disaster, Adams Mill has gone from an exclusive syndicate to being back on the standard MK book, they have killed the big old fish and there isnt much behind them. Short of moving the urbanisation away from the river, there probably is no answer short of constant restocking every twenty years or so, nothing else is likely to change.

Well as a Bailiff of Adams Mill for many many years, there are some facts that many need to know. I started fishing Adams Mill (thats not the venues name at all) in 1968, to this present day. I will also state i wasn't a syndicate member at anytime, but still fished there. The syndicate was started by back stabbing anglers, who wanted the fishing for themselves and would make out it was to protect the fish, RUBBISH

In the Mid 80's anglers started to catch small Barbel, from around 3lb to 5lb. Over the next few years the fish got bigger, but NOT into double figures. Then from nowhere Doubles started to turn up, not just the odd one, but in numbers. The Boom of big Barbel carried on, but the catch of small Barbel declined. At the same time the next section down, saw a Barbel boom in small Barbel.

The Barbel being caught at Adams Mill DIDNT grow to that size at Adams Mill, they were known fish from the section above Adams Mill. They had moved down river, its as simple as that nothing more. Yes they put on weight but hadn't grown from single pound fish into doubles at Adams Mill. Many used to say the fish couldn't move from the section of river, again all hogwash. So we come to the Otters. The fish deaths at Adams Mill were down to a few factors IMO, First the age of the fish,
Second, the Syndicate members fishing them to death. Proof of this was when a club I was in stopped fishing one part of Adams Mill due to the lack of water. Those that formed the syndicate refused to do so, says a lot about fish welfare doesn't it.

Third, Otters, that is also hogwash as Otters have never been seen at Adams Mill at anytime, nor have there been any signs of Otter prints, droppings found etc. There are Mink there, and have been for many many years.

As for the syndicate, once they had killed off the fishing, they turned their backs on the venue, and tried to blame it on everything else, other than their non stop pursuit of trying to get their names in the media and record list. That also goes for the so called known angler in the syndicate, The Clowns from the Circus as they are known by many.

I will add, that at one point in the early 80's a few very small Barbel were caught, under the pound, but never heard of any reports since then of small Barbel. IMO, Adams Mill isn't ideal for barbel to breed and be successful.

PS, The river Lea won't be breaking any records either. 16lb fish have been caught, theres two known that i heard of, but thats it. The fish don't put on weight in the Lea as they seem to do on other rivers. On the other hand the Chub do very very well. It's only around the corner from me, hard venue, and many give up as the fish stocks are low with big fish, and the smaller fish are not doing that great, but there are small fish there, which has to be a good sign.

 

[wanderer]

Sorry to disagree with you Ray, but the traveller was found dead with a big chunk out of it attributed to the furry fiends, the Barbel in the Ravenstone section are also disappearing, as for the Lea , my fishing buddy, Stevie Brookes had a 16 pound 2 ounce during the Autumn and splashed it all over the Anglers Mail, the Nene has produced a seventeen pounder at Orton Weir but the Lea at Fishers Green is my bet for the next record.

 

[The bad one]

The Trent in the tidal is a total unknown quantity to most for how big barbel go. Over 10 years ago I was told by a good friend and good barbel angler, who occasionally visit this site but rarely post these days of a 17+ fish. I seem to recall the ounces were 3 but don't hold me to that. That fish was never reported to any media or known outside of the captures circle of friends.

All he told me was it came from the tidal section of the river. And as this friend lives and fishes that section of river I'd no reason to doubt or disbelieve what he was telling me.
So my money is on the Tidal Trent to throw up the next record if it's not already and gone unreported.

 

[wanderer]

You could well be right, the emphasis does seem to be switching North, but to reach Twenty plus to out do the Ouse is a big call, maybe its one of those records that will stagnate for decades, i still reckon there may be some old warriors left in the Ouse in its deeper runs near Bedford or maybe thats just wishful thinking. I have mates fishing the country park section in this area who have had decent fish but all are reporting Otter probs despite what Ray has said.

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

Sorry to disagree with you Ray, but the traveller was found dead with a big chunk out of it attributed to the furry fiends, the Barbel in the Ravenstone section are also disappearing, as for the Lea , my fishing buddy, Stevie Brookes had a 16 pound 2 ounce during the Autumn and splashed it all over the Anglers Mail, the Nene has produced a seventeen pounder at Orton Weir but the Lea at Fishers Green is my bet for the next record.

I know all about the Traveller, (sad anglers naming fish) and sorry but it wasn't an Otter at all, never been any proof of Otters at Adams Mill.

As for the Lea, not a cat in hells chance of it breaking the Barbel record. Another water i have fished all my life. Your mate may have had a 16lb plus fish, thats over 6lb light off the record, and fish in the Lea don't grow that fast. To be honest I doubt the Lea will have fish grow to 20lb in the next 10 years.

The Loddon has big fish and I know a River that has produced a 19lb plus Barbel, and i have seen photos of two other fish, 17lb 9ozs and an 18lb 3oz, from the same river. I am not going to sat where, as the circus will be all over it, as they always do.

 

[binka]

The Trent in the tidal is a total unknown quantity to most for how big barbel go. Over 10 years ago I was told by a good friend and good barbel angler, who occasionally visit this site but rarely post these days of a 17+ fish. I seem to recall the ounces were 3 but don't hold me to that. That fish was never reported to any media or known outside of the captures circle of friends.

All he told me was it came from the tidal section of the river. And as this friend lives and fishes that section of river I'd no reason to doubt or disbelieve what he was telling me.
So my money is on the Tidal Trent to throw up the next record if it's not already and gone unreported.

Good point about catches going unreported.

I think the tidal is a good bet, I won't go into any specific details for obvious reasons Phil but there are credible reports locally of a fish from the non-tidal middle river that smashed the current record out of sight at 23+

 

[The bad one]

The reports don't surprise me in the least Bink It would be nice to see Britian's true barbel river sitting top of the pile though wouldn't it

 

[wanderer]

Ray, dont blame you mate, it annoys me with the carp fishing let alone the Barbel, i reckon the Nene may be in with a shout, sadly not my end, anyway good hunting.

 

[Ginger]

Must say i agree with Ray, i`ve fished The Green for many years, still holds some big Barbel but nothing near the 20lb mark, the next record Barbel won`t come from here but i would not bet against a record Chub.

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

Must say i agree with Ray, i`ve fished The Green for many years, still holds some big Barbel but nothing near the 20lb mark, the next record Barbel won`t come from here but i would not bet against a record Chub.

I sure if you look back at the record list the River Lea has held the record 3 or 4 times for the chub. There are a few known chub over 8lb, and a couple just over 9lb. My money is on the Lea for a chub record also.

As for a Barbel record, there are a few rivers that have some very big fish, I am talking over 19lb.

The Thames could throw up something close, don't think the Seven will, but my money would be on two rivers, the Trent, and the other I am not saying, for obvious reasons.

---------- Post added at 23:04 ---------- Previous post was at 22:43 ----------

Ray, dont blame you mate, it annoys me with the carp fishing let alone the Barbel, i reckon the Nene may be in with a shout, sadly not my end, anyway good hunting.

If we are honest, we don't know just what are in our rivers, because there aren't enough angels on the bank, and many anglers now keep what they have caught, close to their chest.

I don't also go along 100% with such reports as these for one reason, they are based on their findings. I have found such reports a little hit and miss. They don't cover all the river, how can they.

I find anglers fishing the rivers have more of an idea of what is or isn't in the venue. The EA, did a report about fishers green a few years back. To put it simple, there were way off regarding the size of fish. Yes they said there were big chub and Barbel, but nothing backing them up, WRONG.

Barbel of around the 1lb mark, small chub from a few ounces plus, Roach 3oz to a few fish over 2lb, plus Perch, Pike, Dace and Carp, have all been caught since, and only just after the report came out. I am not saying these reports are wrong in every way, but i don't take everything they say as done and dusted.

---------- Post added at 23:28 ---------- Previous post was at 23:04 ----------

You could well be right, the emphasis does seem to be switching North, but to reach Twenty plus to out do the Ouse is a big call, maybe its one of those records that will stagnate for decades, i still reckon there may be some old warriors left in the Ouse in its deeper runs near Bedford or maybe thats just wishful thinking. I have mates fishing the country park section in this area who have had decent fish but all are reporting Otter probs despite what Ray has said.

I don't know why, but as soon as Barbel start to move off from a section of water, Otters are to blame. The Ouse Barbel move up and down the river all the time, never staying in one place all the time.

St Neots used to have Otters there years ago, the fishing was great. I am not saying Otters don't eat fish, but they don't just eat Barbel. If they did the river Lea at fishers Green wouldn't have anything at all in it. Otters have been there for many years.

As soon as someone reports an Otter on a section of river, before you know it, they are in every inch of the river, which just isn't true. Otters in the Ouse, yes we know they are, but in some sections, not everywhere. You also have to look back when our rivers were full of fish, they also had plenty of Otters.

Strange that when the Otters were wiped out, the fish stocks started to decline, yet now Otters are back, fish stocks on rivers are getting better, if this wasn't true, how come more anglers are starting to fish rivers again.

 

[Ginger]

The Thames could throw up something close, don't think the Seven will, but my money would be on two rivers, the Trent, and the other I am not saying, for obvious reasons.



When are we going ?