Pike getting off.

[medway man]

Hello everyone.
I used to do a bit of piking on my local river about a decade ago and Ive just gotten back into it. I went out for a few hours on Thursday and hooked into a pike of about 5 pound, I got the fish to the surface and it somehow got off. This morning I went back to the exact same spot, Got a run after about 45 minutes which felt the same size and I believe was the same fish, again it got off, Half hour later another run struck nothing on there, another 10 minutes in the same spot 3rd run of the day (again felt like the same fish) I strike and start reeling the fish in and it comes off yet again.

When I used to pike fish I don't remember losing many at all so this has got me baffled.

Im using Mick Browns leger rig with size 6 hooks and half mackerel for bait. Im striking hard into the fish and keeping the pressure on to keep the hooks in.

Anyone got any ideas whats happening? Thanks.

 

[law]

How quickly are you striking? What technique- float or ledgering? I assume you are hooking the deadbait tail towards the rod?

 

[medway man]

Hello law as soon as I get indication of a run I walk up to the rod pick it up wind down and strike. Im legering and I am hooking tail towards the rod.

 

[law]

All I can think of is that you are hitting it too early and therefore hooking the fish in the fleshy bit of the chops, and then the hooks pulling when it's under the rod tip.
When to strike into pike is a very tricky thing.
The pike normally picks up the bait sideways with it's front teeth and will then take it's time before going to turn it, chew and swallow it. Sometimes it will swim off before doing it, other times it'll sit on the spot. Other times it'll storm in, grab the bait and storm off. It varies from water to water.

I don't often ledger for pike, but when I do, once I get a take I hold the line between my fingers to feel for the pike going for the swallow and then hit it.
This might not be the best method, but like I said, I don't do much ledgering for them as I find you get sloppy and lazy and sit in a swim all day, which isn't good piking if you ask me.

So, try holding back for a second or 2 before striking into it

 

[medway man]

Thanks law Im hoping to get out midweek so Ill give it a go then.

 

[law]

Good luck!

 

[binka]

I'm not familiar with Mick Brown's rig but by the term "hooks" I'm thinking you're using two sets of trebles?

If so try a shorter gap between the two sets of hooks especially if, as you say, the fish is relatively small as it sounds to me like the half mackerel bait is sitting across it's mouth after picking up the bait and it's possible that both sets of trebles could be outside of the mouth.

Might also be worth trying a smaller bait but if you do and you get a run then get on it and hit it straight away.

Good luck...

 

[thecrow]

All I can think of is that you are hitting it too early and therefore hooking the fish in the fleshy bit of the chops, and then the hooks pulling when it's under the rod tip.
When to strike into pike is a very tricky thing.
The pike normally picks up the bait sideways with it's front teeth and will then take it's time before going to turn it, chew and swallow it. Sometimes it will swim off before doing it, other times it'll sit on the spot. Other times it'll storm in, grab the bait and storm off. It varies from water to water.

I don't often ledger for pike, but when I do, once I get a take I hold the line between my fingers to feel for the pike going for the swallow and then hit it.
This might not be the best method, but like I said, I don't do much ledgering for them as I find you get sloppy and lazy and sit in a swim all day, which isn't good piking if you ask me.

So, try holding back for a second or 2 before striking into it

This advice is very dangerous for the Pike, runs should ALWAYS be hit straight away anything else will result in deep hooked Pike, far better to loose what are usually small fish than deep hook a fish and chance it going belly up.

 

[law]

This advice is very dangerous for the Pike, runs should ALWAYS be hit straight away anything else will result in deep hooked Pike, far better to loose what are usually small fish than deep hook a fish and chance it going belly up.

I've never had a deep hooked pike. So long as you sit on top of your rods and are quick, you won't have a problem.

 

[john step]

presumably they are not the same(blunt) hooks stashed away for a decade when you last used to go piking? Only asking. I didn't know whether to think this or not?:wh

 

[medway man]

I'm not familiar with Mick Brown's rig but by the term "hooks" I'm thinking you're using two sets of trebles?

If so try a shorter gap between the two sets of hooks especially if, as you say, the fish is relatively small as it sounds to me like the half mackerel bait is sitting across it's mouth after picking up the bait and it's possible that both sets of trebles could be outside of the mouth.

Might also be worth trying a smaller bait but if you do and you get a run then get on it and hit it straight away.

Good luck...

Yes I mean trebles The trace I was using the treblesare 3 1/2 inches apart Ill try 3 inches and take the bait size down a bit, I never used large baits when I used to fish this river years ago and only switched to mackerel because the water is realy coloured at the mo and I thought an oily bait would be an advantage so you could be right about the bait size, I have some 5 inch smelt in the freezer Ill try them cheers.

---------- Post added at 12:47 ---------- Previous post was at 12:43 ----------

presumably they are not the same(blunt) hooks stashed away for a decade when you last used to go piking? Only asking. I didn't know whether to think this or not?:wh

No I bought these brand new a couple of weeks ago, I did find a box of size eights from back then and some traces I made up and never got round to using though and the hooks look good and sharp.

 

[sagalout]

You could do away with the trebles and try a single circle hook. I have landed 8 out 10 fish since changing to circle hooks and they have all been hooked in the scissors or side of the mouth, I also crush the barb as per my club rules. I got into circle hooks after reading this Mike Ladle's Fishing Diary

Oh yeah these are the ones I use and I use a size 6 http://www.sakuma.co.uk/p/300/sakuma-440-circle-hooks

Oh yeah, again, they also work for perch.

 

[medway man]

You could do away with the trebles and try a single circle hook. I have landed 8 out 10 fish since changing to circle hooks and they have all been hooked in the scissors or side of the mouth, I also crush the barb as per my club rules. I got into circle hooks after reading this Mike Ladle's Fishing Diary

Oh yeah these are the ones I use and I use a size 6 440 Circle Hooks - Fishing Hooks - Superb fishing products

Oh yeah, again, they also work for perch.

Thanks Ill look into it.

 

[keora]

This advice is very dangerous for the Pike, runs should ALWAYS be hit straight away anything else will result in deep hooked Pike, far better to loose what are usually small fish than deep hook a fish and chance it going belly up.

I've pike fished for many years, I've tried different rigs. I've also varied the time between seeing the float move and striking.

I find if I strike as soon as the float moves, I'm more likely to miss the fish, presumably because it hasn't got the bait completely in its mouth. My current method is that I strike about 10 to 15 seconds after the float first moves. With this method I very rarely deep hook pike - I think the last time might have been ten year ago.

I've also stopped using the traditional two treble hooks on a trace. For the last couple of years I've used a single large hook, (a size 1 long shank carp hook). This rig is far easier to unhook than two trebles, as the hook usually catches in the scissors. A further advantage is that you don't have the problem of a flying treble catch in the net when the pike is landed.

The single hook technique works well with smaller baits - sprats, medium smelt, half sardines.

 

[thecrow]

All I can think of is that you are hitting it too early and therefore hooking the fish in the fleshy bit of the chops, and then the hooks pulling when it's under the rod tip.
When to strike into pike is a very tricky thing.
The pike normally picks up the bait sideways with it's front teeth and will then take it's time before going to turn it, chew and swallow it. Sometimes it will swim off before doing it, other times it'll sit on the spot. Other times it'll storm in, grab the bait and storm off. It varies from water to water.

I don't often ledger for pike, but when I do, once I get a take I hold the line between my fingers to feel for the pike going for the swallow and then hit it.
This might not be the best method, but like I said, I don't do much ledgering for them as I find you get sloppy and lazy and sit in a swim all day, which isn't good piking if you ask me.

So, try holding back for a second or 2 before striking into it

Can you explain how you know that the fish is "going for the swallow" ?

Big Pike will often not move far if at all after taking a bait and holding the line waiting for what you say you can feel will result in deep hooked fish, far better to miss runs from what are usually small fish than risk a fish being deep hooked.

Pike often do not always pick baits up sideways, they can suck a bait in from 12 inches away, I have watched this happen more than once.

Any angler that is prepared to risk deep hooking a fish for the sake of not missing runs is risking the life of the Pike they are fishing for, they are not as robust as people think they are. You say yourself "this might not be the best method" I would suggest its a method to avoid.

 

[terry m]

In addition to Crow's advice, I would advise considering switching to braid if you have not already done so.

Braid will drive home large hooks far better than mono that stretches.

 

[Derek Gibson]

I can confirm Crow's points, having been in the unique position of having spent going on fifteen years on one particular water, that allowed excellent visual evidence of the pike's reaction to various baits and presentation.

But the point about feeling for the pike to swallow the bait whilst holding the line is for me the most misleading and potentially dangerous. It's almost on par with the old time piker's advice of, ''Don't strike until it starts it's second run.''

I think Law is confusing the pike moving away (having pouched the bait) with swallowing it, and in any case, swallowing the bait is the ''last'' thing we would ever wish to happen.

In the interest of sustaining quality pike fishing, these are prime issues for consideration.

Terry M's suggestion of braid as a main line is excellent advice, by virtue of non-stretch contact is immediate.

 

[binka]

Out of interest what breaking strain do you braid guys use for your deadbaiting?

I ask this as the vast majority of my pike fishing is done close to mid-range with floats and even on occasion the longer range stuff too and the directness of braid for bite detection hasn't been an issue for me due to this, I appreciate the qualities of it in other respects such as the setting of hooks.

Going back to the gapping again between sets of trebles I've seen half baits being used where the upper treble on the trace is positioned nicely in the tail root of the bait and the lower treble is positioned close to the dorsal fin where the bait has been cut and which to me is wrong as there is a large part of that bait which is possibly barren of hooks when laid across the mouth of a pike and unless you take the risk of waiting for the pike to turn the bait (if you can safely interpret this?) then you've as much chance of pulling the bait free as you are of hooking the pike.

Some time ago now I went down in the size of the gap between trebles and always strike on the very earliest indication of a bite and 99.9% of the time this sees the fish safely on the bank and hooked in or around the scissors, it makes life a heck of a lot easier when removing the hooks too.

All of the many pick ups I've witnessed visually over the years have been across the mouth first.

 

[medway man]

Yeah Ive thought of switching to braid and some slightly weaker hooks just to make sure I can pull the hooks straight to get out of snags if I need to. I hadn't thought of the low stretch setting the hooks better. Braid lasts a few seasons as well doesn't it?

 

[flatsfishing]

My suggestion would be to ditch the deadbait set up and get fishing with some lures...no issues with deciding when to strike and a lot more active and fun!