pike longevity

[flightliner]

I was going to ask here but instead looked up wikopedia about how long pike lived and was realy surprised that seven years is about the limit.
If that is correct then some six lbs per year is possible for some of the biggies !.

 

[The bad one]

As is often said not everything on Wiky is correct. When I did serous amounts of piking in the winter 15 years ago, on one water I fished, the water had a very distinctive marked pike that had an anchor pattern, which started just above it’s tail fin. I first encountered this fish when it was 9lb and caught it five times over the next 8 years. 9+, 11+, 13+, 16+ 19+ lbs.
The water it resided in was stuffed with roach and skimmer bream throughout my association with it, so it could be said it was never short of food.
As to how long lived and what weight it reach at death, I couldn’t say, as by that time I stopped fishing the water. What I do know is the best fish that came out of that water whilst I was fishing it was just under 25lb.

 

[keora]

I was going to ask here but instead looked up wikopedia about how long pike lived and was realy surprised that seven years is about the limit.
If that is correct then some six lbs per year is possible for some of the biggies !.

Sometimes Wikipedia is not a reliable source, and 7 years is not the upper limit for pike. Here's a couple of references, one American, the other British:


"Great Lakes pike spawn in the shallows in April or May, right after the ice leaves, and before muskies reproduce. As a result of their eating habits, young pike grow rapidly in both length and weight. Females become sexually mature at age three or four years, and males at two to three years. Beyond sexual maturity, pike continue to gain weight, although more slowly. Great Lakes pike have an average life span of 10 to 12 years." (Michigan Department of Natural Resources)


"The earliest evidence of pike in the UK are one-million year old fossils found in Norfolk. The largest pike are females, male pike rarely exceeding ten pounds in weight. Pike spawn early in the spring, when water temperatures reach 9° centigrade (48°F). All pike anglers know that the so-called ‘back end’ of the coarse fishing season, the period 1 February – 14 March – provides the best chance for a very big pike. Before spawning, pike of all sizes gather together, the larger females being accompanied by many smaller males, mating lasting several days. Pike have been known to live for twenty-five years, although around eighteen seems the usual maximum longevity. "(Pike Anglers Club GB)

 

[Derek Gibson]

I'll go with Phill on this one. ''Wiki'' is wide of the mark here, pike can and do live to over fifteen years in many waters, given the chance. By which I mean dying of ''natural'' causes. I know this to be true having done some scale reading myself of fish from a variety of waters under the guidance of a real authority.

Without getting into speculation, and for the sake of simplicity, four pounds per year seems to denote a water with good potential for big pike. Anything above that growth rate potential indicates an exceptional situation. As evidenced in recent years by a number of trout waters opening their doors to pike angling after years of exclusively trout only. These may well be the waters where the figures of ''six pounds'' per year growth rate originate. But believe me such waters are thin on the ground. It is also not beyond credibility, that this is where the life span in years(seven) comes into play. I have long held the view ''grow fast, die young'' seems to add weight to this phenominon. But as they say the jury's out on this.

 

[barbelboi]

I’d go for the 15+ years estimate (I believe that annular ring counts have already proved this) – I also believe that the annular rings on the scale of a large pike are larger in its juvenile years suggesting that it will grow somewhat faster in it’s earlier days..

 

[The bad one]

One of the problems with scale readings is it only tells you how long the physical frame grew for, not how long the fish actually lived. Once the physical frame reaches it maximum growth potential, length, width, height no more rings are put down. The fish then accumulates or loses body fat (goes up or down in weight), which doesn’t lay down any rings for this for the rest of its natural life. The life length of which could be the same again in some species.
This is particularly true with shoal fish in stillwaters, roach, rudd and bream. Having been privileged to fish many of the 3 county’s Meres over a 40 year period I’ve seen the cyclical movement of roach, bream and to a lesser extent rudd. So I and the other guys I fished them with, knew when they were spawned and watched them grow over the cycle. On two meres and out of the several hundred scales I read during the cycle at periodical times both from roach and bream, I never found ring readings older than 6 years for roach and 11 years for bream. However, we knew the largest of the roach 1.75 to 2lbs were 9 years old. And the bream 11-13 lb were 18 years old.
PS Derek was that authority one Dr Jimmy Chubb by any chance?

 

[flightliner]

When I read the six year figure it was tinged with a fair bit of doubt. Around the turn of the millenium I was fortunate to have access to a trent valley gravel pit that was well policed and yet little used.
One of the pike-- a low twenty (how old by then) turned up for me some two years later at 25+, a further two years on again to a friend at 28+ ( a few minutes after a well known angler said we were wasting our time before leaving) and at 30+ the following season so yes-- wiki woul seem to be well out with its figures of a pikes lifespan.

 

[eelsfootinn]

Maybe the Broadland tagging programme will answer this definitively.

 

[greenie62]

Maybe the Broadland tagging programme will answer this definitively.

Good idea! Have you got any contact details for this? - is it an EA or PAC initiative? Cheers :thumbs:

 

[eelsfootinn]

It's an EA initiative, sadly brought about by declining pike stocks throughout the Broads. I don't have any contact details and I'm also a little confused about how it will solve the puzzle of declining stocks. A disappearing or dying tagged pike is surely as much of a mystery as the same happening to an untagged pike? Maybe I need to find out more.

One thing no one seems to agree on is the effects of capture on large pike. Some people suggest it has no detrimental effect if the pike is hooked and handled correctly, other people suggest that a water under pressure from angling pretty much wipes out all the big fish. I would very much like to know the answer to this.

 

[greenie62]

It's an EA initiative, sadly brought about by declining pike stocks throughout the Broads.....

Perhaps some of our PAC members may know more about this and have an idea when the preliminary results are due - are we talking this year / next / sometime never?
Cheers :thumbs:

 

[Derek Gibson]

I am reminded of a quote by Jim Gibbinson from many years ago now, ''Pike thrive on neglect''. However we realise that whilst this is true, pike will not be neglected. What the real issue here is the degree of neglect.

When Jim first penned that quote sometime in the late sixties, pike as a species were under far less pressure than we see today. Both from the standpoint of numbers of pike anglers, but also the dedication and competance in tackle and methods many of these display. All of this equates to increased pressure on any water known to hold big pike. That these waters will deteriorate over a number of years is undeniable, as we have witnessed in recent years. And that unfortunately is a fact, unpalatable perhaps, but true.

 

[terry m]

I always was of the mind that 15 year was the longevity, but have no scientific information to underpin that view.

Derek's point on neglect is interesting. It seems to me that neglected waters are few and far between these days, add to that the increase in general interest in predator fishing in general, and piking in particular. That does not bode well for the medium to long term.

 

[eelsfootinn]

Well I would still like to know what exactly it is about "pressure" on a water which makes the big pike die out. Is it novice pikers doing the worst thing and letting the pike run with the bait before striking, leading to deep hookings? I believe many carp fishermen who give pike a try in winter don't know that they need to strike and need to do it quickly. I have even heard tales of people bivvying up and actually sleeping, with only the bite alarms to wake them up! A lethal practice for the pike.

Or is it simply that big pike cannot survive many normal captures? I've caught the same jack twice in a day, and caught jacks one day after a previous capture, I've not heard of this happening with bigger fish. We also hear of pike over 40lbs being caught 2 or 3 times by people after a record fish, then the fish vanishes, i.e. presumably dies. We never see a really big one being caught for several seasons, do we?

 

[Derek Gibson]

I believe you have answered your own question.

 

[eelsfootinn]

You mean novice pikers deep hooking?

---------- Post added at 13:45 ---------- Previous post was at 13:14 ----------

Another poor practice is single crimping traces or using cheap crimping pliers. Having tested some trace crimps before fishing and finding they gave out before 10lbs of pulling, I threw away my cheap crimp pliers, bought the Fox ones and re-did all the traces I'd made using two crimps at each end. Fortunately I never fished with the weak traces, but I bet many don't test the bs on theirs.The double crimps now test at well over 20lbs. Unfortunately youtube has several videos showing traces made with single crimps. When I spoke to a piker a couple of weeks ago he reckoned a pike had just bitten through his wire trace. I suspect a crimp had slipped, leaving a treble in the fish.

I've somewhat strayed off topic, apologies!

 

[Derek Gibson]

You mean novice pikers deep hooking?

Not necessarily novice pikers, but if we concede that very big pike are delicate creatures then repeated captures however dealt with on the bankside will not be in their best interest. If we then throw into the mix the publicity afforded to such a fish, and the ensuing rush from a number of enthusiastic pikers to track it down and track it. And believe me when I say those guys can be relentless. I know i've seen it, and I think you'll agree it all becomes a bit unsavoury. Hope you get my drift.

 

[eelsfootinn]

Yes I understand. I am going to keep the venues of any big captures in the future to myself and close friends and family. That seems to be the only sensible approach.

---------- Post added at 14:20 ---------- Previous post was at 14:10 ----------

If you read Course Fisherman magazine in the 80s, you may recall a series of articles about a venue the writer dubbed "The Green Lagoon". A small group of pike fishermen were given access to fish a previously unfished lake - I think it was an estate lake. They caught 30 after 30 plus loads of 20s and doubles. It was basically a piker's paradise. But the final article in the series fast forwarded a couple of years and they were catching virtually nothing. At the time I couldn't understand why. Now I think I do.

 

[terry m]

Not necessarily novice pikers, but if we concede that very big pike are delicate creatures then repeated captures however dealt with on the bankside will not be in their best interest. If we then throw into the mix the publicity afforded to such a fish, and the ensuing rush from a number of enthusiastic pikers to track it down and track it. And believe me when I say those guys can be relentless. I know i've seen it, and I think you'll agree it all becomes a bit unsavoury. Hope you get my drift.

This illustrates the paradox perfectly. Someone publicises a big pike catch along with the venue and the circus kicks into life. This is not limited to 40lb + fish, but even 20+ at a more local level. And many of the circus participants are the most seasoned of pikers and should know better.

 

[Derek Gibson]

This illustrates the paradox perfectly. Someone publicises a big pike catch along with the venue and the circus kicks into life. This is not limited to 40lb + fish, but even 20+ at a more local level. And many of the circus participants are the most seasoned of pikers and should know better.

Thank you Terry .