Pike at bait

[ranger1]

Hi all

Just had a very frustrating a day yesterday on a local river.. basically I was using delkims and my mate was using basically using a billy backbiter, I'm not experienced river wise but the pike where pulling the line but weren't Triggering on my delkims I could see the rod moving but no indication even on my mates alarm the were pulling and letting go and pulling for until finally they trigger the alarm and this happened 4 time son different sections each time we striked into the fish we'd have them on but lose them in a minute or two..
Also all the deadbaits were on the bottom we didn't have any popers, it may sound like I'm crazy but the the pike were pulling the like and you could see the end of your rod bending and then going back normal and bending until finally the pike takes lines very strange?

Any ideas never happened to me before..

 

[Philip]

Sure they where Pike taking the bait ?

 

[john step]

When the water is very cold they can sit with the bait in the mouth without taking it for some time. I think they can nudge it to produce those knocks on the rod top if they have been pressured or just not hungry.
A float set up if practical might give better indication as to whats going on as a tight line from the lead to the indicator might be putting them off?

Not always practical on a river I know.

 

[ranger1]

Cheers all.

Was very strange alright 100% pike because every time we striked into the fish just as the pike was near to landing bang the hooks would go.. what would you do about this as in should we leave it longer before striking ? Also when they did take the bait it was very aggressive one of the bites nearly took the rod from the rod pod! My friend had a pb 19lb that day too.
My friend was fishing with a float setup only one lost fish on it.

Any more ideas ?

 

[thecrow]

should we leave it longer before striking

Please don't do that its very dangerous for the pike, they are extremely delicate creatures that must be handled with great care.

If the hooks are not taking a firm hold on the strike it could be that they are not sharp enough or the line you are using had to much stretch absorbing a lot of the force on the strike or even the rods you are using don't transmit the strike very effectively.
Distance can make a difference on how much of the strike force is left when it reaches the business end, have you thought about using braid?

 

[ranger1]

Please don't do that its very dangerous for the pike, they are extremely delicate creatures that must be handled with great care.

If the hooks are not taking a firm hold on the strike it could be that they are not sharp enough or the line you are using had to much stretch absorbing a lot of the force on the strike or even the rods you are using don't transmit the strike very effectively.
Distance can make a difference on how much of the strike force is left when it reaches the business end, have you thought about using braid?

I was just suggesting about leaving longer because every time they the pike would do that we always lost them, we had normal runs which resulted in not losing any of the three we caught that day, but when they did that nudging etc we lost them. We both were using Leeds semi barbed, and 44lb power pro. The fish we got yesterday were all early unhooked all the hooks were in the sisscors of the mouth.…

 

[john step]

Were you using too small trebles?

This following may be frowned upon by the pike experts.
A couple of years ago I was experimenting with singles for pike. I was using largish sea hooks, size 2/0 or 3/0.

At one point I wondered if the bait would be possibly interfering with the hook point ( the bait being quite large) so I tried a hair made from that green soft garden string. I wondered as a bonus if the bait would act more naturally and the taste of the wire trace would be further from the pike when it approached the bait.

I cannot unequivocally state I got more takes or hook ups but it seemed to work well enough later in the winter when they seem to get picky.
The hooks were usually in the incisors or just inside the mouth.

Just this last month or so I have been trying circle hooks as recommended by some knowledgeable FM people on these forums.(mainly for zander which I have found a bit difficult to hook up. Might be just me of course)

I have also been using them for pike, just to see so to speak.

So far the results seem positive now I am getting the hang of how to hook up.

Tight lines

 

[keora]

Hi all

Just had a very frustrating a day yesterday on a local river.. basically I was using delkims and my mate was using basically using a billy backbiter, I'm not experienced river wise but the pike where pulling the line but weren't Triggering on my delkims I could see the rod moving but no indication even on my mates alarm the were pulling and letting go and pulling for until finally they trigger the alarm and this happened 4 time son different sections each time we striked into the fish we'd have them on but lose them in a minute or two..
Also all the deadbaits were on the bottom we didn't have any popers, it may sound like I'm crazy but the the pike were pulling the like and you could see the end of your rod bending and then going back normal and bending until finally the pike takes lines very strange?

Any ideas never happened to me before..

I suggest that as soon as you see the rod tip move, you should disengage the indicator, pick up the rod and then hold the line to feel what's happening at the bait. If you feel further pulls on the line, point the rod end at the bait to give more line, or just open the bail arm and let the fish take line.

It could be line bites you were seeing, although since I rarely leger for pike, this is only a guess.

Often in winter, pike take deadbaits in their jaws but delay actually eating them. The float moves off, you strike, feel a slight resistance and then the fish is off. It's not easy to find a solution. A small bait such as a 4 or 5 inch sprat might help. Yet I've had days - last week in fact - when I've missed takes even using small baits.

I wonder if you'd get a more sensitive rig if you used a sliding float rather than a leger. I normally use a Drennan Zeppler taking a 12 gm lead. Bigger rivers might need a 20 gm float.

 

[ranger1]

Thanks for the responses.

Will try what ye said.. was using size 6 semi barbed hooks and was using half mackys, and using small rainbow trout around 13 inches or so.. was using a running ledger rig.. very strange though!!

 

[keora]

Are you sure you were using 13 inch trout for bait? If you were, then I think that may be the reason you've been having hooking problems.

It's true that big pike prefer big baits. But the use of big baits makes it harder to set the hooks, as they might be outside the fishes mouth on the strike.

It might be better compromising with a smaller bait.

 

[ranger1]

Sorry forgot to say half so 6 inches or 5.. had one small jack 3lb that had the half trout all in his mouth greet little fellas

 

[ranger1]

Went to the river again since posting, same thing happened again twice I went out for a day until one of my reels broke, and just fished for a total of 2 hours and stayed in a swim that did produce a high double.. I only got one normal run got a nice jack, had 2 of these rod twitching runs, one run which I seen it looked like the took the bait and left it down again, another of these run twitching runs he took the bait very slowly and the what he was doing is moving the rod tip then letting go and moving until the alarm finally went off. I have Delkim and I find it very strange the way their taking the bait.. I lost both the fish that where twitching the rod. Really strange

 

[vegetator]

For your rod tip to move a lot and no indication from your alarm it sounds to me as if you have too much of an angle from your rod tip to the bait. I have watched carp rods almost pulled from a pod with no sound from an alarm because they were fished at right angles. I always use bank sticks and point the rods at the bait to keep the angle as straight as possible. This reduces friction and makes bite indication much better. Lowering resistance should encourage a better take from wary pike too.

 

[thames mudlarker]

For your rod tip to move a lot and no indication from your alarm it sounds to me as if you have too much of an angle from your rod tip to the bait. I have watched carp rods almost pulled from a pod with no sound from an alarm because they were fished at right angles. I always use bank sticks and point the rods at the bait to keep the angle as straight as possible. This reduces friction and makes bite indication much better. Lowering resistance should encourage a better take from wary pike too.

Totally agree 100 %

Although I don't pike fish now a few years back I pike fished an awful lot for several seasons non stop and learnt that avoiding resistance was absolutely critical in fact big perch and zander are the same,

I always had me rods pointing directly towards the rigs and with slack lines, having slack lines from the rod tips are a little harder to get right when fishing on rivers which I mainly fished but can be achieved in the right swims where there's slack water in the margins

 

[Phil Heaton]

Cheers all.

Was very strange alright 100% pike because every time we striked into the fish just as the pike was near to landing bang the hooks would go.. what would you do about this as in should we leave it longer before striking ? Also when they did take the bait it was very aggressive one of the bites nearly took the rod from the rod pod! My friend had a pb 19lb that day too.
My friend was fishing with a float setup only one lost fish on it.
Any more ideas ?

You may have answered the question yourself, as the float can be more sensitive than a tightened up line clip.
It may help to up your hook sizes a little, 6's can be a bit small on a thick or long bait.
Phil

 

[ranger1]

For your rod tip to move a lot and no indication from your alarm it sounds to me as if you have too much of an angle from your rod tip to the bait. I have watched carp rods almost pulled from a pod with no sound from an alarm because they were fished at right angles. I always use bank sticks and point the rods at the bait to keep the angle as straight as possible. This reduces friction and makes bite indication much better. Lowering resistance should encourage a better take from wary pike too.

That really makes sense now that I re think back, so you are saying that if I had the rod not pointed at the bait then the alarm isn't picking pike taking the bait, even though I do remember my friend was using a backbiter had the rod tilted up high is and still got the rod twitching, down the river this week so I'll post back, went a trip before this had one decent run like any normal run lost him though!

 

[peter crabtree]

If your rod tip is twitching why wait for the alarm to go off?

 

[ranger1]

Well when we striked into the fish both off us lost every fish that did the twitching on the rod we never caught a single one, seen them close but would lose em.