Why a Pike close season?

[flightliner]

Wilko, great avatar mate, dont stop posting!

 

[steve2]

It does appear that this October to March season is nothing more than tradition.

 

[Philip]

I have now joined 2 new clubs that both allow lure fishing in the summer months and bait fishing from October.
One of the clubs I was a member of banned lure fishing for anything on all its waters in the summer in case you hooked a pike.
So it would seem that on the whole pike close season rules are a mess.

Allowing lures in the summer & bait fishing after October makes no sense whatsoever.

The only reason I can think of that they would do this is if there are other fish like black bass in the water that are known summer lure takers....but that makes no sense either because as we all know, Pike take lures too.

I would love to know the clubs reason behind that rule.

 

[sam vimes]

I'm no lover of arbitrary rules for rules sake. It would be great if we lived in a world where individuals could make their own decisions based on sound knowledge and common sense. Sadly, we don't live in a world like that.

Allowing lures in the summer & bait fishing after October makes no sense whatsoever.

The only reason I can think of that they would do this is if there are other fish like black bass in the water that are known summer lure takers....but that makes no sense either because as we all know, Pike take lures too.

I would love to know the clubs reason behind that rule.

The rationale I've heard for such a rule is that pike tend to engulf deadbaits in the warmer months. They often end up deeply hooked and in danger of serious damage. With lures, they tend not to stand as great a chance of being deeply hooked and badly damaged. I rarely, if ever, fish for pike these days, but that sounds plausible and sensible enough to me. It certainly sounds preferable to a blanket ban on fishing for pike from April until the end of September.

 

[binka]

Allowing lures in the summer & bait fishing after October makes no sense whatsoever.

The only reason I can think of that they would do this is if there are other fish like black bass in the water that are known summer lure takers....but that makes no sense either because as we all know, Pike take lures too.

I would love to know the clubs reason behind that rule.

From my own experience it's the speed at which a pike can take and turn a bait fish in summer when its metabolism is at its peak, which in turn would likely be fatal for the pike given that many baits would be mounted on traditional, double treble rigs.

Lures offer a limited insurance against this by the very nature in which they are fished but I've had some quite deeply hooked fish back in the days when I used to lure fish in summer.

 

[Philip]

Not doubting what you guys are saying but I had to do a double take, am I really hearing this right...the reason some fisheries are banning baits in summer is because they are worried there is more chance a Pike will swallow a bait faster in summer than in winter ?!?

It begs the question does the problem get worse in a hot summer ? ...how about about a mild winter ?

In my experience a Pike takes a bait with the intention that’s its going to eat it, and that means swallow it, summer or winter and if you leave a run too long your going to deep hook it.

Sorry but I recon its a ridiculous rule that’s just another tiny step towards getting rod and line angling banned altogether.

 

[steve2]

Surely all fish what ever the species feed more and swallow the bait more in warm weather? I know that the reason put forward for the summer lure fishing only rule is because of this but it could equally be applied to all fish and fishing.

Since doing more and more lure fishing I have not deep hooked a fish. I will happily continue with my summer lure fishing for all species.

 

[binka]

My gut feeling (see what I did there?) is that the bait fishing ban makes sense in summer.

I've no problem with lure fishing at all, I still have the odd session during that time but these days it's mainly for perch and it generally fell by the wayside with me simply because I was doing other things and not that I thought it was potentially dangerous to pike during that period.

I've heard theories about pike in particular also being affected by low oxygen levels during hot weather with advice to get them in as quickly as possible and whilst I've never seen any evidence of suffering to that effect it does make general good sense imo.

I think the issue of the close season timing for pike is just as big, if not bigger, than the bait fishing issue but that problem is the same old problem in that there are so many annual and regional variations in temperatures and likely spawning times that you would have to expand any proposed pike close season, that was designed to protect spawning, by several months more in order to cover all possibilities.

The ideal alternative would be to have a flexible close season based on the weather pattern at the time but that's not without its problems.

Just my opinion mind, I'm not stating anything as fact or denying others their equally valid ones.

 

[smudger172]

The ideal alternative would be to have a flexible close season based on the weather pattern at the time but that's not without its problems.


Binka. Please show all workings when you put forward this little gem..

 

[steve2]

In one of my clubs the carp anglers tried and failed to get a rule past that all lakes should be closed when the carp are spawning. Could imagine the chaos that would cause with carp spawning at different times in different lakes. Let alone other species anglers asking for their own close season.

 

[binka]

The ideal alternative would be to have a flexible close season based on the weather pattern at the time but that's not without its problems.


Binka. Please show all workings when you put forward this little gem..

Just my way of thinking and looking at things ideally, but as I said it's not without its problems and the 'ideally' refers to selecting an effective date range for a close season and not a justified reason for having one.

If we experience a particularly mild January and February it suggests to me that the pike will become gravid earlier and present a possibility of spawning earlier than April and possibly before the end of the season.

Does that happen?

I imagine it's likely and going by my own experience would have to say yes, and so...

If you were to impose a close season for pike to protect them whilst spawning (spawning being the main reason given for what's left of the current close season for the remainder of coarse fish) then surely you would have to have a wide enough window of time to cover all the variables or alternatively set the dates on an annual basis nearer the time when long range forecasts might help towards a more informed decision?

I was catching female pike on the worm several weeks ago that were ready to spawn along with a few males that were latching on, I'm not trying to shorten the pike fishing season in any way but simply saying that, in the wider context of things such as the bait fishing bans by some clubs at certain times of the year, there might be scope to add further protection depending on whether or not it can be justified and how far the clubs wish to go.

I've done very little pike fishing over the last two winters and I've no vested interest one way or the other. It just seems illogical to me, as an observation and removing any personal feelings towards agreement or not, that some rules exist whilst other factors are possibly being overlooked.

It's a similar situation with the perch where, by and large, I've continued fishing for them through a period where they will be gravid and on beyond spawning which begs the question of whether protection, by some form of cessation, is even necessary?

Personally I would rather leave the pike to it during spawning, they are a fragile species but, if the answer to the last question in the above paragraph is 'no' then it negates my own personal feelings and brings us nicely around to the current status quo

 

[smudger172]

Just my way of thinking and looking at things ideally, but as I said it's not without its problems and the 'ideally' refers to selecting an effective date range for a close season and not a justified reason for having one.

If we experience a particularly mild January and February it suggests to me that the pike will become gravid earlier and present a possibility of spawning earlier than April and possibly before the end of the season.

Does that happen?

I imagine it's likely and going by my own experience would have to say yes, and so...

If you were to impose a close season for pike to protect them whilst spawning (spawning being the main reason given for what's left of the current close season for the remainder of coarse fish) then surely you would have to have a wide enough window of time to cover all the variables or alternatively set the dates on an annual basis nearer the time when long range forecasts might help towards a more informed decision?

I was catching female pike on the worm several weeks ago that were ready to spawn along with a few males that were latching on, I'm not trying to shorten the pike fishing season in any way but simply saying that, in the wider context of things such as the bait fishing bans by some clubs at certain times of the year, there might be scope to add further protection depending on whether or not it can be justified and how far the clubs wish to go.

I've done very little pike fishing over the last two winters and I've no vested interest one way or the other. It just seems illogical to me, as an observation and removing any personal feelings towards agreement or not, that some rules exist whilst other factors are possibly being overlooked.

It's a similar situation with the perch where, by and large, I've continued fishing for them through a period where they will be gravid and on beyond spawning which begs the question of whether protection, by some form of cessation, is even necessary?

Personally I would rather leave the pike to it during spawning, they are a fragile species but, if the answer to the last question in the above paragraph is 'no' then it negates my own personal feelings and brings us nicely around to the current status quo

Totally agree with what you have said.

personally as soon as i know that the pike have spawned thats it and i am finished pike fishing there..

I am unsure how you would go about enforcing a flexable pike season..

Maybe it should be left to the owners of the waters to police and close the pike season at their discretion.

 

[keora]

Totally agree with what you have said.

personally as soon as i know that the pike have spawned thats it and i am finished pike fishing there..

I am unsure how you would go about enforcing a flexable pike season..

Maybe it should be left to the owners of the waters to police and close the pike season at their discretion.

That's the current position in England and Wales for still waters. Riparian owners are free to impose their own close season or not have one at all.

The position on river fishing is more complicated. The EA abandoned the close season for coarse fish in still waters because it didn't think it was necessary. I believe the EA did do some research before making the decision.

The EA kept the close season on rivers because there wasn't enough evidence to make an informed decision. Also it didn't have the money to do extensive research.

To me it makes sense to protect fish while they are spawning. The close season for coarse fish in rivers lasts about 90 days from mid March to mid June. There might be times when spawning is late or early because of cold or warm weather in Spring. But we can't legislate for that.

Having different close seasons depending on each species of coarse fish isn't workable. How could the EA enforce it?

 

[Jim Crosskey 2]

Two thoughts on this as follows...

First off, could the origins of the "tradition" of the pike season come from people who are not interested in fishing for them? I.e. during the summer, there are plenty of all sorts of anglers on the bank and so the pike angler (and his associated revenue) are not required... however, come October and the first frosts, there needs to be another "season" to get people back on the banks, so hey presto, now you can come and fish for pike.

(also, it's a possible derivative of the above is match-orientated fishermen not traditionally mixing so well with the piking fraternity and this maybe a a way of keeping them separate.... or just selling two sets of different tackle to the same fellas?)

My other thought on this is regarding the way we bait fish. Has the Jardine snap tackle has had it's day? This piece of equipment is surely the reason those pike are going belly up. I know that the argument will come back that "in the right hands" it will never cause a problem, well how about all the times it's in the wrong hands? Getting two embedded trebles out of a pike is a horrendous task, and yet that tackle is deliberately left for an amount of time conjured out of thin air by the angler (no underwater cam inside the fishes mouth to know that the bait has been "turned").... Whilst that practice exists - two trebles and waiting long after the initial run before striking - then lots of fish will die.

So my rule would be - if you're using a bait, be it live or dead - single hook only!

 

[thecrow]

How could the EA enforce it

They cant manage the present closed season. Then there are all the regional variations with different bye laws in different areas allowing fishing on rivers within stipulations about hooks and bait. The whole thing for both predators and other fish needs looking at again and imo the time spent cocking up the rod licence for single rod users could have been better spent looking at the closed season.

 

[Jeff Woodhouse]

Personally I would rather leave the pike to it during spawning, they are a fragile species

I'm not disagreeing with every word you've written about spawning and seasons, but you're not the only one to suggest that pike are a 'fragile' specie.

What evidence is there for this? Is everyone just going off size and perhaps how knackered they look following spawning. For if the latter is true then most fish look knackered, my PB barbel when I caught it two years ago - in the season! So the same would go for every big/large sized fish, wouldn't it?

Or do we tend to ignore how knackered small fish, roach, dace (spawn early too), bream, tench, or do we simply ignore how they look because we want to catch them? I just wish that Barrie Rickards were still alive to answer some of these questions, I've had a look through his books and can't find any reason, but many people, pike anglers especially, think they're 'fragile'. Just what does it mean?

 

[steve2]

I think fragile comes from that they were and in some case still are treated roughly. Deep hooked, dragged out on powerful tackle then banged over the head. Unlike tough as old boots carp that were and still are treated to feather beds and ointment when caught.
Anyone tried rubbing ointment inside a pikes jaw?

 

[binka]

I'm not disagreeing with every word you've written about spawning and seasons, but you're not the only one to suggest that pike are a 'fragile' specie.

What evidence is there for this? Is everyone just going off size and perhaps how knackered they look following spawning. For if the latter is true then most fish look knackered, my PB barbel when I caught it two years ago - in the season! So the same would go for every big/large sized fish, wouldn't it?

Or do we tend to ignore how knackered small fish, roach, dace (spawn early too), bream, tench, or do we simply ignore how they look because we want to catch them? I just wish that Barrie Rickards were still alive to answer some of these questions, I've had a look through his books and can't find any reason, but many people, pike anglers especially, think they're 'fragile'. Just what does it mean?

I'm referring to fragile with a particular emphasis on angling pressure, that's not to overlook the decimation which has taken place in many areas courtesy of, in the main, European migrants but that is in a different context to the conversation.

Relevant to the overall picture all the same, I feel.

There's also the theory of low tolerance to depleted oxygen levels in summer but as I stated in an earlier post I have personally seen no evidence of this but agree that the advice about gear and the playing of fish in general is good.

There was a water back in the 90's (iirc it was either in Lincolnshire or just over the border towards Worksop) that tried to create a commercial type of predator fishery with pike being the predominant species.

It didn't last long and the last I heard was that it was taken over by private syndicate but I would be interested to hear if anyone knows otherwise or has any recent information on it.

I think that sometimes, faced with a lack of anything tangible in terms of evidence, you just have to go with what feel is right for you. Evidence is there to support a claim and the lack of any doesn't necessarily mean that claim is not valid and vice versa.

Earlier this afternoon I took a dump, after going through the usual post-dump motions I flushed the whole lot away and wafted a bit of air freshener around.

Everything is now as it was before I took the said dump and there is no evidence of it ever taking place.

I still took a dump though

 

[Philip]

My other thought on this is regarding the way we bait fish. Has the Jardine snap tackle has had it's day? This piece of equipment is surely the reason those pike are going belly up. I know that the argument will come back that "in the right hands" it will never cause a problem, well how about all the times it's in the wrong hands? Getting two embedded trebles out of a pike is a horrendous task, and yet that tackle is deliberately left for an amount of time conjured out of thin air by the angler (no underwater cam inside the fishes mouth to know that the bait has been "turned").... Whilst that practice exists - two trebles and waiting long after the initial run before striking - then lots of fish will die.

So my rule would be - if you're using a bait, be it live or dead - single hook only!

Ironically the idea behind jardin snap tackle was to stop Pike being deeply hooked.

Using 2 sets of hooks one at either end of the bait meant you could strike as soon as the Pike "snapped" at it as at least 1 hook would be in its mouth and you didnt need to wait for the Pike to swallow it.

However as with everything it gets abused and people want to use 2 sets of trebles AND wait for the Pike to swallow it as well. Not good!

For my own part i use trebles and common sense and i cant recall any Pike i have not been able to unhook using the gloved hand and forceps technique.

However i have considered moving to singles and i think your right Jim that there is allot to be said for doing that.

 

[binka]

I occasionally use a single, double singles and circles but still find myself going back to the snap tackle for some reason.

Philip nailed it for me about striking immediately and I've found that by gapping and positioning the trebles effectively I can do this with little if any fear at all of not hooking up.