Amino acids in ground bait

sagalout

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I didn't want to hijack Chris's free giveaway thread so starting a new one. Based on Chris's generously shared amino acid it seems obvious that the effectiveness of ground bait can be dramatically by adding amino acids.

Milk is a good source of essential acids and is readily available as a dried powder so is easily added to the mix, but what else is there that is cheap and easy for the mix?

Does anyone know what sort of quantities should be added on a per kilo basis?

Do coarse pellets (cheap and convenient) contain high levels of essential acids?
 

sagalout

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laguna

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Can I contribute (with an over-simplification) please? :)

Amino acid - responsible for smell/scent and taste.
Essential amino acid - one the animal can only acquire through their diet.
(Fish have a requirement for 10 different essential amino acids)

To attempt to demystify what amino acids are and their role in baits (food stuff), its first important for us to realise that ALL raw and unprocessed food contains amino acids that can potentially attract fish, they are simply the building blocks of proteins, their mystery lies in understanding how they work and why fish find them so attractive. A subject of great debate amongst course anglers.

Imagine a string of beads, and each bead is held together tightly by the string. Its that string of beads that makes up a protein (Polypeptides and proteins are chains of amino acids held together by peptide bonds). The beads (peptide bonds) are the protein building blocks, break that bond and you release amino acids some of which have a slight negative charge and some positive and others neutral. Other categories relate to polarity, pH level ect.
The positive charge is generally what excites the fishes senses as they come into contact with them (L-amino types), some have no effect and some are repulsive.
When they are whole and complete they are simply too big a protein with little or no smell. Break them apart by pulverising, mashing, crushing chopping up and they release their flavours (amino acids), solubility being the key.

When anglers talk about amino acids many immediately assume they're only important or relevant if your a carp angler for some reason, but what's so special about carp? :confused:
Carp will eat almost anything that looks edible, there's nothing so unique about carp when it comes to fish anatomy - all fish will be attracted to smells and scents in the water to some extent, its the amino acids that are responsible for those smells the exact same smell us lesser mortals might be able to pick up on in the air we breathe all around us.

In order for amino acids to be effective as an additive for inclusion with our baits, they need to be soluble before they can be picked up by the fishes senses and they need to be of the right type.
Many amino acids are not soluble and a soup of amino acids doesn't necessarily make it better either, sometimes it causes confusion and is overpowering for the fishes receptors especially the so called; "nature identical" man-made artificial additives or any combination that is incompatible with each other.

If anyone's confused then your not alone; even scientist cannot always agree and applying their research to angling comes with its own complications.

If I was to give one take it or leave it piece of advice I would suggest; using a SINGLE natural water-soluble liquid such as molasses, CSL (corn steep liqueur), or solids like powdered seaweed, live yeast or any predigested foods/liquids that have been converted by natural enzyme processes - bruised and ripened fruit, bread (from the action of yeast), milk proteins (from the actions of bacteria) ect. these foods are microscopically tiny and have an abundance of soluble amino acids present.

I have learned that no single food item (which includes many we use for bait) is complete. "Man cannot live by bread alone"! its for this reason all living creatures need to eat a variety of different food stuff that contain the right amount of nutrients and amino acids essential for life. It may also be the reason why even the best bait in the world may not catch all the time and why we need to keep changing the hookbait?
 

sagalout

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Once again, thanks very much Chris. I almost understood most of that. I Based on your one ingredient advice I wonder if using liquidised pellet for the bulk of my groundbait is the reason I have not had any discernible results with additives.
 

laguna

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Once again, thanks very much Chris. I almost understood most of that. I Based on your one ingredient advice I wonder if using liquidised pellet for the bulk of my groundbait is the reason I have not had any discernible results with additives.

I'm glad somebody did saga! :D

There's really nothing wrong with using a mismatch type of feed or an entirely different hookbait imo but I often wonder what sort of signal this sends out to the fish? Surrounded by a soup of amino acids is counter productive in my opinion but fortunately 99% of the time the groundbait contains macro sized particles which are far too big to contain significant amounts of active amino acids (mostly). However by adding a soluble ingredient to it, it may well send out the dinnerbell message?

I often use the groundbait to keep them feeding and rely on the inclusion of a soluble ingredient like CSL or molasses, a blitzed tin of sweet corn etc, as an attractor. My hookbait will consist of a natural food bait that has been subjected to a soak or natural extract which matches exactly the soluble ingredient in the groundbait.

I like to use a matching hookbait which compliments the soluble ingredients in my feed and when the bites are far and few between it pays to do all you can to entice them. Obviously when they're "avin it" they will have anything you throw at them and feed competitively, but that's a red letter day and its not always so easy on some waters particularly in the colder months or on big waters targeting few big fish.

Amino acids are sensitive to adulteration from heat, acid, alkali and alcohol. Unfortunately most modern 'fashionable' liquid additives contain alcohol and are Ph adjusted with acid (you can usually tell which these are because they smell divine - to the angler) and pellets consist of several ingredients that are processed in a hammer mill using high temperature steam. All these things will denature amino acids to some extent. Then if we add them to the groundbait which consists of several other ingredients there is a real chance most of the scent of the amino acids will be masked - if they aren't already denatured of course.

Without the amino acids to attract fish, anglers need to rely on the visual appeal or trust an artificial alcohol flavour to arouse their curiosity - and then change it to something new once that flavour blows.

As you know; I'm very critical of the industry that catches anglers and make no apologies for using natural ingredients and flavours.
 
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laguna

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Is that why the fermented juice from hemp and parti mix is highly recommended?

Most definitely in my opinion even without knowing why most probably?

A good soak without a boil if you can get away with it... hemp doesnt require boiling for example but it does help release oils - boiling legumes and particles is recommended to make them safe by neutrilising phytic acids (anti-nutrients) and kill pathogens.
However fermentation is not without its problems, many of those tiny organisms produce alcohol as a bi-product and denature some of the amino acids so its dependent upon the bacteria/yeast used as to how good the end product is, cheese has very little alcohol content whereas wine has lots.

Its the billions of live and dead organisms what fish can detect and seek out.
 

nogoodboyo

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Thanks for the info chaps.
But my local fish have pretty basic dietary requirements.
Worms and bread and stuff.
 
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