Its only a decade.........but which river?

[Graham Elliott 1]

Thinking back a decade or so, I would have rated the following rivers as the most productive for actual barbel populations.

1/ Severn
2/ Kennet
3/ Bristol Avon
4/ Teme
5/ Loddon


If I was to consider now it would probably be

1/ Wye
2/ Trent
3/ Severn
4/ Wark Avon
5/ Kennet

Interested in others opinions as I no doubt have missed a few that others consider more prolific at the time, especially up north.

 

[sam vimes]

Graham,
I wouldn't care to guess how prolific some of the northern rivers are in relation to those further south. I've got the distinct impression that the Swale has been relatively static for the last ten years or so. The doom mongers might disagree, but what variations I've noticed could be attributed to little more than temperature and rainfall variations over the season rather than the mammal whose name we dare not mention. The Tees seems to have dropped off fairly dramatically in the last few years as does the Ouse. By all accounts, the Ure is relatively static in a similar way to the Swale. As for the Nidd, Wharfe, Don, Aire etc. Probably a little harder to ascertain as all have had relatively low stocks of barbel over the years. They do all seem to have had more concerted stocking programs over recent years though.

 

[cg74]

Thinking back a decade or so, I would have rated the following rivers as the most productive for actual barbel populations.

1/ Severn
2/ Kennet
3/ Bristol Avon
4/ Teme
5/ Loddon


If I was to consider now it would probably be

1/ Wye
2/ Trent
3/ Severn
4/ Wark Avon
5/ Kennet

Interested in others opinions as I no doubt have missed a few that others consider more prolific at the time, especially up north.

I'd definitely remove the Warks Avon and reinstate the Teme to fourth position, as though there is undoubtedly less barbel present than 10yrs ago, there is IMO a massive biomass of barbel still in there.

I haven't fished the Kennet for 10-12 yrs now, isn't it now a case of fewer but bigger fish?

TBH though without wanting to be gloomy, the list I'd be most interested in seeing, would be the list of rivers that have a healthy self-sustaining population of fish, and subsequently the biomass is similar to a decade ago and with a wide span of year classes present.

Which leads me to ask; which rivers do you think would make up the list in 2022?

 

[Judas Priest]

Colin

For a self sustaining natural population i'd go for the Dove.

and for a river where they were artificially introduced but now has a self sustaining population i'd go for the Severn, especially the Lower which is throwing up lots of fish from a pound or so to good doubles.

Barbel are no different to any other fish and the populations go in cycles (if left alone by man), so to try to guess top dog in 2020 might be a little difficult

 

[dezza]

I would say the Trent without doubt. The reason is first of all it's the biggest river of those mentioned and is the biggest river in England as regards the amount of water shifted. It also has a predominently gravel bottom which barbel love. It also is THE classic barbel river.

Barbel are truly indigenous to the Trent and that's important.

 

[Dicky (Angling Trust PAC)]

I agree with CG,

Pop the Teme back on the list...

Although I do have some concern about the potential fatalities on the middle/ upper river precipitated by last year's summer/ autumn drought...

The lower river is still very prolific and this last season I have caught more small (12oz-1lb 6oz) barbs than ever, so the future looks rosy...

 

[Judas Priest]

I'd agree with the prognosis for the Lower ****y. As long as nothing untoward happens then the future looks very good.

One thing I have noticed though is that since the big floods the tired old looking doubles don't appear to show up anymore, the ones we get now look young and pristine.

Ron
I'd also agree that the Trent is one heck of a good river but a classic barbel river NO.
A classic barbel river to me has clear water, gravel, snags, overhanging trees, undercuts, riffles and shallows, 4 to 5ft under your rod top and lovely green flowering ranunculus. To me this has to be the Dove.

 

[Dicky (Angling Trust PAC)]

I'd agree with the prognosis for the Lower ****y. As long as nothing untoward happens then the future looks very good.

One thing I have noticed though is that since the big floods the tired old looking doubles don't appear to show up anymore, the ones we get now look young and pristine.

Totally agree JP... had one left-over raggerdy double of 11lb 2oz early on this season and the rest of my biggies have been in mint condition, pristine scales,full of muscle etc..

 

[smithdave]

Trent
Severn
Wye
Teme
Warks Avon

Proof in itself that midlanders look after their rivers far better than northerners and southerners.

 

[sam vimes]

Ron
I'd also agree that the Trent is one heck of a good river but a classic barbel river NO.
A classic barbel river to me has clear water, gravel, snags, overhanging trees, undercuts, riffles and shallows, 4 to 5ft under your rod top and lovely green flowering ranunculus. To me this has to be the Dove.

How many of the rivers to which barbel are indigenous are actually like that? Is the "classic barbel river" that fits that description actually a fairly modern construct?

Which Dove BTW? Presumably the Derbyshire one that runs into the Trent?
River Dove, Central England - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
River Dove, Suffolk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
River Dove, North Yorkshire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
River Dove, Barnsley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I knew there was more than one Dove but I didn't know there were that many.

 

[cg74]

Trent
Severn
Wye
Teme
Warks Avon

Proof in itself that midlanders look after their rivers far better than northerners and southerners.

Pretty near definitive, except: River Teme dries up | NewsToday

 

[dezza]

How many of the rivers to which barbel are indigenous are actually like that? Is the "classic barbel river" that fits that description actually a fairly modern construct?

The barbel is indigenous to most easterly flowing English rivers. The Yorkshire Ouse and Humber and all its tributaries such as the Ure, Derwent, Swale, Nidd, Wharfe, Don, Rother, the Trent and all its tributaries, which includes the Dove and the Derbyshire Derwent, and the Thames and all it's tributaries. I am not so sure about the Great Ouse.

I list the Trent as THE classic English barbel river because this is the place where the great barbel anglers of old learned their craft, The likes of JW Martin, William Bailey, Charlie Sunman, Tom Bentley, FWK Wallis and many others learned the way of this fish and then took their skills to the Thames and the newly stocked Dorset Stour and Hampshire Avon.

The Hampshire Avon, The Severn, The Warwickshie Avon, the Teme, The Ribble, The Dorset Stour, The Bristol Avon, and a few others were stocked by man. None of these are classical barbel rivers.

 

[Graham Elliott 1]

I would say historically the most famous barbel river would have to be the thames. I might be bias.

Interesting views on the most populus.

 

[cg74]

I would say historically the most famous barbel river would have to be the thames. I might be bias.

Interesting views on the most populus.

Graham, if we're talking historically, say Izaac Walton's era through to present I'd agree with your choice.

Regards what I'd deem as a classical barbel river I'd choose a smaller river, 80's til early 90's Cherwell, Windrush, Thame, Evenlode, Kennet, Wey, Loddon, Medway, (and just for Ron) Dorset Stour and the one fishery that embodies every characteristic I look for in a 'classic' barbel river (except indigenous barbel, but hell, nothing's perfect); the Hamp Avon's Royalty stretch.

Now, the Dove, Rother and Don (both the Yorkshire versions) look nice but I've not fished them, so I guess, it'd have to be the Kennet by default...

 

[Graham Elliott 1]

Hi Colin. My views on the ideal barbel river for me would echo your own excluding the ones not fished. I also think the HA a perfect example (not Royaty though)

Its difficult. If my view of the Trent was based on where I fished it I would class it as a very big canal. BUT I know it can be stunningly beaitiful in the upper reaches.


Trent . Wye. Severn seem favourite 3 at the moment

 

[Lord Paul of Sheffield]

I know the thread say River in the title but no ones mentions one still water - there must be a good one that holds some decent barbel

 

[cg74]

I know the thread say River in the title but no ones mentions one still water - there must be a good one that holds some decent barbel

Nice try Paul but to get more bites, take the luncheon out of the can before putting it on the hair.


Valid question though, my biggest was around 10lb, but doesn't count as I was tench fishing.

 

[Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC)]

A club that I used to be a member of owns one of the region's premier still waters.

I'll not say too much or I'll give away where it is - but in mu opinion they ruined it when they stocked pasties, barbel, trout AND SALMON FFS!

 

[cg74]

A club that I used to be a member of owns one of the region's premier still waters.

I'll not say too much or I'll give away where it is - but in mu opinion they ruined it when they stocked pasties, barbel, trout AND SALMON FFS!

Sounds like a posh muddy puddle, any sturgeon?

 

[Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC)]

Not a muddy puddle - beautiful, mature gravel pit surrounded by picturesque forests and wildlife.

---------- Post added at 15:16 ---------- Previous post was at 15:15 ----------

Sturgeon would do well in the Trent.