Hooklength material for barbel fishing

[Graham Elliott 1]

Hi Binka.

I thought I had explained it but obviously not.

1. Yes I agree that braid is far lass abrasion resistant than Mono. Especially the tough stuff mentioned GR60 GT80 for example.

2. I use a short hooklink because

a/ the method of feeding that I find most succesful is to bring the fish up to a slow release feeder (damp mix) rather than allow the food to trundle downstream in the current and allow them to sit back any distance that the current takes the lose feed be that 3 feet or 10 feet etc.

b/ With a short hooklink it rarely is the bit that gets cut off by sharp rocks etc and as you indicate its usually further up the line. This is where the tough mono main line comes in. Using this method for over 1000 barbel on the Wye over the past 4 years with customers, I have probably experienced no more than 6 cut offs with only one the hooklink. I initially, for the first 2 months fished it with braid mainline............quite a few lost fish to cutoffs.

One Main Bait shop owner lost 5 fish out of five on PP mainline until I advised him to change to tough mono mainline.

The longer the hooklink the more chance this will be cut off and more chance the tail end will be over a potential snag. Makes sense?


3. On Rivers that are not snaggy / rocky etc. I opt to use generally PP as both mainline and hooklink. The benefit is the immediate contact it gives, as stated usually with some taps, mouthed baits, pulling the hook home quicker than stretchy mono..


Hope that answers the query.


I don't expect everyone to agree, it would be a boring life if we all did. I can only advise my experiences..

And Fred, please don't try and muddy these sensible debates,.


Graham

---------- Post added at 14:37 ---------- Previous post was at 14:22 ----------

Hi Sam. Well as I suggest, try it as a hooklink..

If you use it as a mainline I guess you see lots of incidence of split and cut fins, tails, flanks?

If you don't I would suggest my point is made.

Cheers

Graham

 

[sam vimes]

Hi Sam. Well as I suggest, try it as a hooklink..

If you use it as a mainline I guess you see lots of incidence of split and cut fins, tails, flanks?

If you don't I would suggest my point is made.

Cheers

Graham

Graham,
I don't see any incidence of cuts and splits. However, I use a long leader of Amnesia to negate the chances of it happening. I do believe that Powerpro would be quite capable of inflicting such damage. I'm afraid that I don't get your point at all. In the linked article, Dave Chilton categorically states that braids intended as mainlines should not be used as hooklinks. I agree that he doesn't specifically name Powerpro, but I simply can't see how anyone can go from that to denying that Powerpro is intended as a mainline only. I'm pleased as punch for you that you've not encountered any problems. I won't be taking the chance.

 

[tigger]

I've used power pro as a hooklength (short hooklength) on occassions as well as various other braids, mono's etc and have never had the line cut any part of the fish. If anyone has had this happen then imo they must be dragging the fish in and not letting it run (giving it no line). That's not playing a fish, that's skull dragging it and I would imagine using such heavy handed ignorant tactics would cause cut's in the mouth of fish wether using braid or mono.
I think braid as a mainline in a river is a no no and braid as a hooklength over 8 inch would be pushing it. I've actually caught quite a few barbel trailing braid and remember a few years ago catching one poor fish that had about 7 foot of braid plus a feeder dragging behind it. I do remember the fish was quite thin and didn't put up much of a fight. I was actually very happy to have caught it so I could relive it of it's torment.
I've usually used braid hooklengths of 3 or 4 inches in combo with a method feeder and the short hooklengths used to catch chub that would only show plucks on anything longer. These days I nearly always use mono hooklengths, reason being I just do.

 

[Paul Morley]

This has been informative. I don't catch enough barbel or fish for them that often, but the Ribble is a classic case of a scenario where tackle and rigs can be vulnerable. Cartainly I wouldn't use braided mainline there and I don't see any advantage, but 15lb mono I do use. Typically then 3ft of 15lb esp fluoro or the 12lb x line, ending in short braided hooklength of drennan material, size 10 owner hook (rotten bottom, home made feeder). I may indeed examine the total length between feeder and hook, I like the picture of fish drawn to the feeder (and like many used to use 18" and seemingly catch plenty). The more (and ever growing number) people fish for this species with methods discussed here, the more incidents of fish damage or tackle loss, so we need to send out clear messages to those less experienced.

 

[Fred Bonney]

And Fred, please don't try and muddy these sensible debates,.


Graham

........and what on Earth made you think that I was?
Did anybody see any "muddying" or is it just a figment of a fertile mind?

Sam, I was casting no aspertions whatsoever on Dave Chilton. I quite agree with every word he has written, including the bit about mainline braids not being used as hooklinks. Regardless of whether he mentions Powerpro specifically, there's no doubt in my mind that Powerpro is intended as a mainline.

I didn't think you were,just highlighting my thoughts on Dave Chilton and his products mate.

 

[Jim Crosskey 2]

Thanks again fof pitching in folks!

So here's a thought... (forgive me if someone's suggested already)... a rig where there's a leger stop on the line, with a bead (or two) above and a swivel link to attach the feeder, free running... down to a very small swivel, onto which is tied the mainline at one side and a short 4 or 5 inch sinking braid hooklength.

Advantages being: the braid is short, so good anti-tangle... the line immediately above the hooklength is tough-as-old boots 12lb sensor in which I have a lot of faith for anti abrasion (this seeming to be the bit thats under threat from rocks)... and the "tail" length is completely adjustable for those tricky days when you have to play around with it (without tackling down or tying a new hooklength)

Best of all worlds?

And another thing, the spare braid hooklengths would fit in a standard rig wallet, unlike the 3 and 4 foot longs spares I take with me now!

 

[Paul Morley]

Yep Jim that's about it! I use quick change swivels so I don't worry about chopping and changing - to change your braid hooklength (stored as you say) takes as long as to tie a knot anyway, I just like the fluoro as a 'boom' and it's tough.. So now it's back to the Teme for you. You'd best let us know how it goes after all this!!

 

[cg74]

Thanks again fof pitching in folks!

So here's a thought... (forgive me if someone's suggested already)... a rig where there's a leger stop on the line, with a bead (or two) above and a swivel link to attach the feeder, free running... down to a very small swivel, onto which is tied the mainline at one side and a short 4 or 5 inch sinking braid hooklength.

Advantages being: the braid is short, so good anti-tangle... the line immediately above the hooklength is tough-as-old boots 12lb sensor in which I have a lot of faith for anti abrasion (this seeming to be the bit thats under threat from rocks)... and the "tail" length is completely adjustable for those tricky days when you have to play around with it (without tackling down or tying a new hooklength)

Best of all worlds?

And another thing, the spare braid hooklengths would fit in a standard rig wallet, unlike the 3 and 4 foot longs spares I take with me now!

Jim, I honestly can't see the point of faffing around with a rig like you've described, to me it seems the worst of both worlds.

The thinking behind having a rigid boom, a braided hair and hinge (normally 1/2" to 1") is the fish find it very hard to rid the hook (anti-eject).
By having a 4"-5" hinge you are no longer making a combi-rig and IMO you'll be catching in spite of your rig, not because of it.
Why not just use a simple mono hook length of a good robust line like; Ultima Power Steel, Ultima Power Carp or Daiwa Infinity.

If using a feeder 2-3ft in length, if fishing a lead, anything from 4" to 2ft. Fishing a prolific river like the Wye instead of trying to trick the barbel with rigs, it'd be far more effective and easier to stimulate the fish to feed harder.

 

[Graham Elliott 1]

Does anyone disagree with.... the longer the hooklink the more chance of getting snagged ......

 

[sam vimes]

Does anyone disagree with.... the longer the hooklink the more chance of getting snagged ......

Depends on the river bed. On a rocky river like the upper Swale, it's usually the lead that will get snagged up. The length of the hooklink doesn't make too much difference. On most rivers with sandy, gravelly or muddy bottoms, I wouldn't disagree at all.

 

[barbelboi]

Does anyone disagree with.... the longer the hooklink the more chance of getting snagged ......

I believe in horses for courses Graham - I find quite often, depending upon conditions, that a 3 or 4' length of Drennan sink braid, or similar, will be more effective - my belief is that the longer tail gives the wary fish the chance to 'mouth' the bait without feeling resistance and the 'wrap around' follows. Not necessarily a way I'd go on the Wye though
Jerry

 

[tigger]

Does anyone disagree with.... the longer the hooklink the more chance of getting snagged ......

Imo a longer hooklength is far more likely to cause you to get snagged or cut off. The feeder/ weight is hanging low with a long hooklength so has more chance of getting stuck between rocks or grating the hooklength around or against rocks. Even if you have a rotton bottom / weaklink attaching your weight / feeder so as to loose it if it snags it doesn't stop the hooklink from getting caught between the fish and a rock / snag that might cause a cut off or cause your to get snarled up round an object.
I suppose if the river bed was silty, snag and rock free a 10ft hooklength would be ok.

 

[Graham Elliott 1]

Tigger. Exactly, pretty easy really.... and it's amazing how many snag up I see others return sans hook, not the feeder/lead.........my point

Jerry. Yes I have kept the comments / views specifically for the Wye as I have mentioned most times.

In Fact had to go to 1 foot long hooklink tonight to catch on the Kennet............ I like to think any fish that mouth my bait / setup are hooked due to the resistance.

Good debate chaps.

 

[Paul Morley]

Jim, I honestly can't see the point of faffing around with a rig like you've described, to me it seems the worst of both worlds.

The thinking behind having a rigid boom, a braided hair and hinge (normally 1/2" to 1") is the fish find it very hard to rid the hook (anti-eject).
By having a 4"-5" hinge you are no longer making a combi-rig and IMO you'll be catching in spite of your rig, not because of it.
Why not just use a simple mono hook length of a good robust line like; Ultima Power Steel, Ultima Power Carp or Daiwa Infinity.

If using a feeder 2-3ft in length, if fishing a lead, anything from 4" to 2ft. Fishing a prolific river like the Wye instead of trying to trick the barbel with rigs, it'd be far more effective and easier to stimulate the fish to feed harder.

Now I can't quite follow this and I'm not the angler to give it creedence, the 4-5" section wasn't really about anti-eject, was it? Sean Meeghan who first put it in his excellent articles a few years ago here may be able to comment? I'm sure he won't have been the first to use it, but it gets a good explanation which is one I kind of agree with. I'm going for Barbel on Saturday for the first time in a year, I'll see how I perform and on what hooklength!!

 

[Jim Crosskey 2]

Not sure about that Paul, maybe Sean will look in and leave some comment?

For what it's worth, and having given it quite a lot of thought, I'm going to stick with a 10lb mono hooklength of ultima chameleon and only change it around if I'm really convinced that I'm not converting bites.

Not long now til the next Wye trip... I will let you know how i get on.

 

[Graham Elliott 1]

Jim. To be honest, it hard not to connect with the bites on the Wye......they are not often subtle.

I reckon one could use rope and still catch a few.

I'm there this weekend.

Have a good time

Graham

 

[tigger]

I had a days ledgering on the ribble yesterday and caught approx 20 fish (lost count after 12) with three over 10lb. If i'm honest I didn't enjoy it much as it was just to hot and uncomfortable...plus all the biting bugs where out in force.
One thing that did p!$$ me off was one of the double figure barbel I caught had a swivel hanging just out of it's lips and was trailing a 6/ 7 foot length of braid that must have been being snagged on things and tugging on the fishes mouth as it swam around. The braid had cut grooves into each side of the lower jaw/ mouth which where swollen and looked infected. Luckily I had a long slammo disgorger and managed to remove the hook and coated braid hooklength plus all the trailing braid attached. Why the hell do people insist on using braid mainlines or as long hooklenghths on rivers !! IMO clubs should ban the use of it in these circumstances, there's just no benifit to the angler and a lot of risk to the fish so using it on a river is a no brainer.

 

[Paul Morley]

Tigger if you feel strongly about this then do contact your club - it must be one of the well established and large organisations to offer quality fishing yielding three doubles in a session. I'm in contact with a number of anglers who fish the Ribble a lot more than me, none have reported such findings. I did fish yesterday and although I had an equal pb chub, I managed a modest but extremely hard fighting barbel on one of the rigs discussed earlier in this thread.

 

[tigger]

Tigger if you feel strongly about this then do contact your club - it must be one of the well established and large organisations to offer quality fishing yielding three doubles in a session. I'm in contact with a number of anglers who fish the Ribble a lot more than me, none have reported such findings. I did fish yesterday and although I had an equal pb chub, I managed a modest but extremely hard fighting barbel on one of the rigs discussed earlier in this thread.

The fact that I hooked up with three doubles (only just doubles) was unusual for me Paul but I do know of(and have witnessed) other anglers who have bumped into shoals like this on more occassions than you would imagine...just luck of the drawer in the right conditions at the end of the day...it could happen on any stretch of the river if you can find the fish on the day.
I actually bailiff quite a few stretches of the ribble but not for the club that has this particular stretch of water. I might just bring the matter of braided mainlines up at the next meeting but in truth I think i'd be wasting my time. People get set in their ways wether it be right or wrong and there's no changing their minds on a subject. I suppose we have enought rules and regs as it is anyhow but imo using braid as a mainline in rocky rivers is a no brainer.

 

[Fred Bonney]

I have to say I've never found a need to use braid, monofil or fluourocarbon seem to cover my needs.