The Barbel Society Midlands’ Rivers Annual Research & Conservation Fundraiser

[Ray Wood 1]

Phil,
Perhaps Bobby is not in a position to answer your two dodged questions....or is not allowed to answer them?

Totally agree he has been up front in most debates. I did ask him a question myself but alas got no answer.

As he is so up front perhaps he would like to put the photos up he promised within another topic quote

"I can happily put a stop to all this by uploading some photos! I was the photographer after all. My internet is down but I am informed I'll be back up and running by tomorrow. I'll happily upload all the pics here then."

What do you say Bobby are we going to see these photos?

Regards
Ray

 

[black kettle]

To be perfectly clear here are the words of Bobby's original post;

"This new project aims to raise funds, primarily for the Severn catchment, but will cater for all future Midland rivers research and conservation projects.
The Society is helping with funding and supporting two PHD studies, one of which is currently taking place on the river Teme and will be looking at barbel populations throughout the lower and middle reaches.
As time goes The Barbel Society will face a growing list of habitat restoration projects and enhancement schemes that will not only benefit the barbel but all species, as well as improving habitat for all wildlife along the way.
Our first Midlands’ fundraiser event will be held on the 12th September 2015 and consist of a friendly fishing match taking place in the day over three prolific fisheries (car permits and maps will be issued to all guests prior to event), followed by a fantastic 3-course meal and auction in the evening at The Abbey Hotel with Angling Trusts Martin Salter as guest speaker.
A cost of £50 per head will include your entry to the fishing match, dinner at the hotel in the evening and a chance to bid on some fantastic lots in the auction.
For those of you intending on an overnight stay at the hotel, you will need to book early to avoid disappointment as we only have a certain amount of rooms reserved for the event. All details and references for bookings will be provided with each application. Alternative accommodation in and around the malvern hills can be provided upon request.

If you would like to receive an invitation to this years event please contact me via email - mrbbaker@icloud.com"

Firstly, with River Trusts now coming in line for substantial grants for river restoration projects is there really any need for what is undoubtedly a very small organisation with a dwindling membership to be embarking on any of this? And can the BS leadership or hierarchy tell us that R&C funds are not being used as a financial crutch to prop up falling revenue from its dwindling membership?

Bobby you said;

"As time goes The Barbel Society will face a growing list of habitat restoration projects and enhancement schemes that will not only benefit the barbel but all species, as well as improving habitat for all wildlife along the way."

Bobby, you are part of a dwindling society with a membership in demise. With the very best will in the world the BS is extremely small beer even akin to many many of our nations angling clubs let alone many of our nations River Trusts. So if the BS membership continues to decline where is your remit? I ask again, is this R&C initiative a cash cow for falling membership revenue? I also ask, has every single penny of R&C funds been spent on Research and Conservation?

As for the idea of the BS being involved in a "fishing match" to raise money I have no idea what the term "match" entails in your case so cannot comment apart from assuming the term "fishing match" refers to the traditional aspect of blokes fishing and retaining their catches for a weigh in at the end of said match. Please feel free to enlighten us if this is not the case. But if it "IS" the case as in a traditional fishing match with retained fish and a weigh in at the end what on Gods Earth is the BS doing getting involved in such a thing?

Oh and helping to fund a post graduate students PhD might sound impressive to some and is certainly welcomed by the students concerned but exactly how beneficial is all this to the river habitat and more importantly, what will be learned from it that is not already known?

Regards,

BK.

 

[bobbyb]

Morning gents,

Working through the night up and down the country at the moment, the bones are starting creek.

Tony, I take it you had a bad season on Kings Weir then?

Yes, there are plenty of fishing clubs for the barbel enthusiast to join, I thoroughly recommend they do so too as clubs are struggling nationwide, a few lucky ones not so.....but, don't get the BS confused with a fishing club, it is a mistake.
What you've read about the 20/20 vision is a brief description of our main focuses, if all you got from that is what you say...well...not much to add really....Actions speak louder than words.
Thankfully we have much praise from the angling world, obviously not from the 'usual suspects', thats to be expected though. Always is.
In regards to the membership price drop, this is something we would like to phase in over time, not because we're 'desperate', otherwise we would've reduced it already in panic, would we not? We held an online discussion with members and non-members some time ago, the pricing was quite a big issue for many, so, we have listened, and we're trying to do something about it. Understand? Good isn't it!

Ray, please don't try to belittle me, I've been nothing but polite in recent weeks. Have a read, all questions have been answered in one way or another.
Regarding the photos, I have to upload them to my photobucket account first and then post the direct links on here, as I said, I'll get round to it. I have many other priorities in life. Walking the dog, picking my nose and washing my pants are high up on the list, just above uploading photos on the internet.
There have been various reports in the press and Des Taylor done a great little write up, I suggest you check all that out if you're keen to see. There is a mini-selection of snaps online already.

Right then, Lee!
First question - Yes, and we fully support the river trusts in any way we can, check out the recent BART update.
Second Question - As has been said many times before, the R&C funds are just for that, does what it says on the tin. Don't be daft.
Third - We went through this just a week or two ago, membership has been stable for years and even showed an increase last season. Please read old posts on here and other forum platforms.
"fishing match" - Please read earlier posts, we've been through all this already.
"what will be learned from it that is not already known?" - Do you know everything Lee? Especially about the river Teme barbel population shift? Do tell!!!

I was going to ask a few questions myself but to be honest, I know the answers already. I'm fully aware, as is everybody else in the world, that'll you'll attempt to hijack any thread that is Society related. Especially when it comes to the chairman. So for now, thats me signing off, lots of things to be done and a busy season ahead. Have a good'un. Keep fighting the good fight.

It's beyond me as to why any angler wants to see any club/society/federation fail in this day and age, it really is. Bad form.

Regards

Bobby.

 

[Ray Wood 1]

Bobby,
Thanks for the reply, belittle you? I thought I had paid you a complement for your openness...oh well!

So Bobby, picking your nose, washing your pants, and walking the dog are more important than publishing the pictures you promised that would support the 300 attendees....or was that reply more along the lines of sarcasm?

Moving on, personally if I had made the comment "I can happily put a stop to all this by uploading some photos!" I would have made it my priority to do just that.

After all you are trying to show that what some who refuted the 300 in attendance at the show to be wrong are you not?

Bobby, you said " I've been nothing but polite in recent weeks" should I take it that you will be less than polite in the future when honest polite questions are asked of you by that remark? Should I also expect the BS bully boy tactics when it is criticized or questions are asked to now come into play?

I have no wish to read anything Des Taylor may have written, why would I? It was your good self that promised the readers of FM that you would make the pictures from the show available, with the sole intention of supporting the claimed 300 attendees. Des did not make that promise you did.

Regards
Ray

 

[thecrow]

Some of the axes being ground on this thread are so old they are made of stone

 

[Judas Priest]

Blimey Bobby you've managed to swerve my questions yet again.

If the 2 tier committee is going ahead you'll find one committee does all the work whilst the other just takes the praise and keeps submitting their expenses claims, can't see that lasting very long.

 

[black kettle]

Hi Bobby,

No more questions just answers to some of your answers. Bear in mind from the onset that my answers are based completely on what the BS hierarchy have said themselves.

You said;

“Second Question - As has been said many times before, the R&C funds are just for that, does what it says on the tin. Don't be daft.”

Please read this carefully Bobby then you might realise I’m far from being “daft”.

This was posted by Steve Pope on the 7th of February 2009 at 11.06pm.

“Ray,

Just so the thread doesn't go completely off track I have to correct you on something.

"Hoarding money in the BS bank account does not promote any Research and Conservation of which it was raised for."

All monies received for Rand C are ring fenced in a separate account, every penny goes towards research and conservation projects.

Spending money in the year shows a lack of understanding Ray.

Keep warm.

Steve”

As I’m sure you will agree Bobby words from the horses mouth so to speak confirming that R&C funds are “ring fenced” and kept in a separate account.

Then on the 6th of February 2010 the following was minuted at a BS committee meeting by Mike Osborne.


“Going into the December Barbel Fisher No.30 Website:
Following on from SP's opening address, where he touched upon the prospect of the website upgrade/renewal, a considerable amount of discussion centred on both the proposal to undertake this task and on the funding for it. On the point of the undertaking, based on SA's 1-year-old provisional estimate, a vote was taken to effect the progress whereupon the proposal was accepted by a majority vote.

On the point of the funding for the undertaking, it was suggested to apportion the next Auction funding toward this cost. This met strong resistance from areas of the Committee, with the belief that it may be an unsound move based on possible reduction in prize donation and also members' reluctance to bid/purchase `lots' for such cause and also a sense of discomfort expressed for a change in direction, from R&C.

After some heated discussion on this aspect and without a reasonable compromise looking likely, one member offered a ElIC donation and another proffered a £1K interest-free loan, to be able to kick-start probable funding from the BS general fund.


After further discussion, a further alternative proposal was tabled for the possibility of sharing the next Auction receipts on a 25% for the website and 75% for R&C basis. This proposal resulted in a majority vote in favour. This resulted in the decision to progress the undertaking, with SA requesting input from all concerned with regard to the required display and activity content for the proposed website.”


Then on the 16th of march 2010 Ray Walton, founding member of the BS, questioned this appropriation of 25% of the auction funds intended for R&C going towards the BS website and received this answer from Mike Osborne who was the BS secretary at one time.


“Off Topic Nit Picking”


Ray,

You said, above: -

"More importantly, I see also that a good percentage of the R+C fund (which could have been used at Beauchamps Court research and conservation and other environmental causes) is now going to be used to prop up and enhance the BS website!"

.... And, again, you are way off beam because the R&C Fund is ring-fenced for R&C Projects and no 'percentage', good, bad nor indifferent, will ever be utilised for anything other than R&C works.

Should you care to read, digest and consider the statement you have been supplied with, with regard to the "Auction" receipts, you may note that there is no reference to the R&C (existing substantial) Fund in there, just a re-direction of a lesser proportion of this year's possible auction receipts.

Facts, Ray, in short supply to you it seems,”


Really? I read all that to mean that 25% of the monies raised from the auction will go to the website whilst the other 75% goes to R&C. So putting aside Mr Osbornes clever use of wording what this actually means is BS members (and others bidding who were represented by BS members) pledged monies in the auction via their various bids for items listed in that auction supposedly in the belief that all monies raised would be going towards R&C in the manner that has been repeated over and over again in the past.


If I were bidding in a similar auction where the proceeds were intended for good causes I would be expecting all monies raised to be going exactly where it stated on the tin, not to be syphoned off to some other area to finance something one would reasonably expect to be funded by membership fees??


Agreeing in committee prior to monies being raised, supposedly for the sole purposes of funding good causes, to then appropriate a percentage of monies raised elsewhere is hardly cricket and NOT what I would expect if I were supporting conservation issues with my hard earned money. You might well say this is what it says on the tin Bobby but please forgive me if I don’t buy this particular brand of white wash.


You said;

“Third - We went through this just a week or two ago, membership has been stable for years and even showed an increase last season. Please read old posts on here and other forum platforms.”

Simply not the case Bobby. 1999 at 1300 members. 2014 at 550 members. And from 1999 to 2014 it’s been a steady decline in members. These are Steve Popes own figures not mine Bobby.


You said;


"fishing match" - Please read earlier posts, we've been through all this already.
"what will be learned from it that is not already known?" - Do you know everything Lee? Especially about the river Teme barbel population shift? Do tell!!!


It’s simple Bobby . I was wondering if these intended “matches” were to be fished in the traditional way with the retention of fish and a weigh in at the end of said matches. I wasn’t aware you had been through this particular topic already so please enlighten me. Enlighten us all.


Regards,
BK.

 

[Ray Wood 1]

Well Well!

Given what BK has posted I can see why the "Barbel Society and/or its Officers or Members" would not want to answer questions in relationship to the R/C funds.

R/C funds used for the BS website? Not quite sure how that comes under the wing of research and conservation? I am sure anyone considering either contributing to these funds by way of either bidding/donating prizes for the next one will be having serious doubts about doing so now... Wouldn't you?

Some may think they have been lead up the garden path (mugged) as to the use of the R&C funds they donated to?

Personally I would not be donating in any shape or form to something that does not do as claimed by Bobby Baker "the R&C funds are just for that, does what it says on the tin. Don't be daft.”

The claims made by Mr Pope, Mike Osborne and Bobby Baker that the BS R&C funds are ring fenced will now be discard with no difficulty at all, as should anyone who has donated to the BS R&C funds!

There have been claims that the BS leadership and committee have their fingers on the pulse, seems not though. Apparently the guy who deals with merchandise has been out of action. But no one took control of this side of the BS in his absence, even though he expected someone to do so.

Shambles was the word used by one person who waited a month for their order waited two weeks for an answer to an e-mail regarding to that order.

The BS appears to have lost control of everything, loss of membership, loss of fisheries, and unable to fulfill the simplest of task such as dealing with selling its merchandise in a timely manner.

Yes I believe "SHAMBLES" to be the right word!

Regards
Ray

 

[Titus]

Well Well!

Given what BK has posted I can see why the "Barbel Society and/or its Officers or Members" would not want to answer questions in relationship to the R/C funds.

R/C funds used for the BS website? Not quite sure how that comes under the wing of research and conservation? I am sure anyone considering either contributing to these funds by way of either bidding/donating prizes for the next one will be having serious doubts about doing so now... Wouldn't you?

Some may think they have been lead up the garden path (mugged) as to the use of the R&C funds they donated to?

There have been claims that the BS leadership and committee have their fingers on the pulse, seems not though.

Finger on the pulse? As an outsider it reads more like fingers in the till to me. But, so long as the members are happy it's none of my business.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Moderator hat: Off i.e. personal opinion.


Over the years here on FM we have witnessed many Barbel threads, and whenever the Barbel society is involved it always seems to end in acrimonious accusations being made against the Society in general or against individal Officers in particular.

Now, personally, I no interest in the Barbel society or how it is run, but if I did have an interest, and it was at odds with those who manager and run the organisation, then I would be inclined to become a member and fight for the changes that I feel so passionate about from the inside.

Regardless of how intense or passionate an argument may be, it will never succeed if voiced from without . . . . . . . . .

It was for that simple reason that I joined the Angling Trust, as I realised very quickly that as an outsider my voice or opinion counted for nothing at all, and as an outsider I am not kept informed as to what is going on within . . . . . . . .

Just my view of course, others will differ . . . . . .

Further thoughts . . . . . is there not a case for the inauguration of a separate and new "Society" in the Barbel World? After all said and done if there are so many ex-members who have become so totally disgrunteld with the way the current one is run then maybe the answer is to stop the moaning and start your own?

Or is it so much easier to throw rocks at those who do make the effort and give of their time so freely ?

Just a thought . . . . . .

 

[sam vimes]

is there not a case for the inauguration of a separate and new "Society" in the Barbel World? After all said and done if there are so many ex-members who have become so totally disgrunteld with the way the current one is run then maybe the answer is to stop the moaning and start your own?

Is there not already? The ABF?

Splitters!:wh People's Judean Front or Judean People's Front?

 

[Graham Elliott 1]

Yes there is
THE ASSOCIATION OF BARBEL FISHERS.

Started by disgruntled ex BS Members. I believe it has around 400 members.

I understand that it has been through a vibrant time of late debating how much influence sponsored anglers and tackle companies should have on it's policies, plans and sponsorship of activities especially at Commitee and decision making levels..

Im not talking about any long term sponsorship arrangements in place already but with potential newer influences Its a serious concern and one that shouldn't be a Lone concern just for ABF.

 

[bennygesserit]

are there any ex-members of the association of barbel fishers , unhappy with how the ABF was being run , we could end of with some sort of recursive barbel wars from which Steve Pope was excluded - its turtles all the way down.

 

[thecrow]

are there any ex-members of the association of barbel fishers , unhappy with how the ABF was being run , we could end of with some sort of recursive barbel wars from which Steve Pope was excluded - its turtles all the way down.

The only way to become an ex member is not to have visited the site for around 2 years, now and again members that have not visited are removed from the membership, however if a member is unhappy with this they can contact admin to be reinstated at no cost, nobody can become an ex member by not paying subs as there is no annual subscription just a small payment when joining. I believe that the current membership number is 410.www.barbelfishers.com/

 

[Titus]

Peter, if you follow the threads you must realise that most of the protagonists are ex barbel society committee members who have been forced to leave because their voice is stifled by the committee within a committee system which has already been described this week.

Those who I know personally were dedicated members who worked hard and gave freely of their time and money to attend meetings only to see the decisions which were taken at those meetings overturned if they were not in line with the agenda of the inner ring.

I'm sure some of them will be along soon enough to make their own reasons for this public inquisition clear.

I have given up taking an active part in the 'resistance' now as tbh life is too short to spend it trying to move an immovable object but I still follow the debate with interest and enjoy watching the Machiavellian skill with which those been questioned avoid their questioners.

More fun than playing a big old chub in a snaggy river on light tackle.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Peter, if you follow the threads you must realise that most of the protagonists are ex barbel society committee members who have been forced to leave because their voice is stifled by the committee within a committee system which has already been described this week.

Those who I know personally were dedicated members who worked hard and gave freely of their time and money to attend meetings only to see the decisions which were taken at those meetings overturned if they were not in line with the agenda of the inner ring.

I'm sure some of them will be along soon enough to make their own reasons for this public inquisition clear.

I have given up taking an active part in the 'resistance' now as tbh life is too short to spend it trying to move an immovable object but I still follow the debate with interest and enjoy watching the Machiavellian skill with which those been questioned avoid their questioners.

More fun than playing a big old chub in a snaggy river on light tackle.

Adrian,

Having been on here for many years I know that some of the protagonists were active members.

That said and understood I am still a little mystified as to why anyone would wish to continue to flog the proverbial dead nag, having left the society, rather than joining a new one that is more allied to their own way of thinking and or principles.

you can draw a parallel with your local angling club that may not be run the way we would liek to see it, but then the choice is to either remain a member and promote change from within or to leave and join another club where one feels more comfortable.

Never having been that much interested in Barbel then maybe I am missing something here, but I remain somewhat mystified by the continual wrangling that the Barbel Society, and/or its Officers, seem to attract at every mention of their name.

Tell you what - The Roach Club never had these problems
[insert winkey smiley thing > > > > HERE]

 

[Titus]

you can draw a parallel with your local angling club that may not be run the way we would liek to see it, but then the choice is to either remain a member and promote change from within or to leave and join another club where one feels more comfortable.

Never having been that much interested in Barbel then maybe I am missing something here, but I remain somewhat mystified by the continual wrangling that the Barbel Society, and/or its Officers, seem to attract at every mention of their name.

The way I see it is that if your well managed local club which had a policy of being, a friendly group with aspirations to look after and improve their waters while providing a safe environment for its members, was taken over by a group of people who changed the whole ethos of it and used it to promote themselves, their businesses and their own political agendas while still paying lip service to the original ambitions set out by the founder members then you would do everything you could to get it back on course.

If you tried and failed to do everything you could to steer it back on to it's original course from inside the club but found you couldn't bear to be a part of what it had become then your only recourse will be to attack it from the outside and try to draw attention to what you believe is going on which is what the exiled members are doing.

As a former inquisitor I understand the frustration of the exiled members but as I said before, I have come to terms with it and realised that in the grand scheme of things the Barbel society makes very little difference to my fishing life or barbel fishing as a whole.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

If you tried and failed to do everything you could to steer it back on to it's original course from inside the club but found you couldn't bear to be a part of what it had become then your only recourse will be to attack it from the outside and try to draw attention to what you believe is going on which is what the exiled members are doing.

While I understand the principle I would have to say that there comes a time when the intelligent thing to do is to simply move on with one's own life.

Tilting at Windmills becomes so totally boring after a while not only for the combatant but also for the spectators . . . . . .

 

[Titus]

So who is going to be the one to assume the mantle of the great(sic) "Don Quixote".


“One man scorned and covered with scars still strove with his last ounce of courage to reach the unreachable stars; and the world (of barbeldom) was better for this.”

 

[tonybull]

was taken over by a group of people who changed the whole ethos of it and used it to promote themselves, their businesses and their own political agendas

Now they want to move up a notch and become Executives to keep it going but trying to make it look as though its new set up 20/20 thing mg:

At least with fishing clubs its all about fishing and catching fish and there's nothing in it for anyone, everyone joins to clubs to catch fish and the committees are set up for the good of the club and its members.