Help rod choice for barbel with feeder

[nova12]

So i fish the trent usually kellham a fast river to say the least and also farndon also a good chuck to the otherside i need a rod that can chuck 6oz of feeder and also good for lighter choice for chub so far ive looked at korum but they do a13 footer aswell. Do i really need a rod that size? i dont no any help much appreciated.
Looking at a fox royale 1.75tc or the 2.25tc?(2.25tc overkill??) They are currently £60 at climax and £40 for the korum.12 foot 2.0tc???
I use wychwood rogues for all my carp fishing 2.0tc as i like to enjoy the fight and very rarly have to cast past 70 yards i like to.enjoy all my battles with the fish hence no carp rods and i dony want to overkill it with the barbel fishing i like a good bend in my rod at all times

 

[john step]

Nothing to do with the bend in the rod. The test curve denotes what line strength and weight it can cast.
I use a couple of 3lb test curve carp rods for chucking big watch leads and heavily laden feeders to the far side of the Lower Trent. I use 15lb bs line at times. There are lots of snags and rough ground.
A small barbel in that flow puts a very healthy curve in these rods.

You can fish lighter at closer range but to reach the distance with the weights you need you would break something with a less able rod.

Before I get slated by those who barbel fish on rivers like the Kennet or Hants Avon with lighter rods and who haven't experienced the Trent in full flow please realise the river is a very different big beast. Not always of course but it often is.

PS Just re read your post. I think it wiser to target either species individually but not both trying to use the same tackle. Horses for courses.
Also remember the longer rods will keep more line out of the flow, beach casting style.

 

[nova12]

I couldnt go to 3lb tc that is surley overkill even on the wider stretches a max 2.5tc can chuck a 6 7 oz lead out each to there own though ive i no the trent can be bad though

 

[thecrow]

I couldnt go to 3lb tc that is surley overkill

I think you are confusing T.C and what taper the rods are, not all 3lbs TC rods are fast taper poker stiff things plus rods that have been used for a while loose some of their stiffness particularly if they have regularly been used for heavy work that somewhere like the Trent sometimes demands.

In reality TCs don't mean that much, better sometimes to be slightly over gunned than to find you are under gunned and cannot fish how you want to.

 

[thames mudlarker]

So i fish the trent usually kellham a fast river to say the least and also farndon also a good chuck to the otherside i need a rod that can chuck 6oz of feeder and also good for lighter choice for chub so far ive looked at korum but they do a13 footer aswell. Do i really need a rod that size? i dont no any help much appreciated.
Looking at a fox royale 1.75tc or the 2.25tc?(2.25tc overkill??) They are currently £60 at climax and £40 for the korum.12 foot 2.0tc???
I use wychwood rogues for all my carp fishing 2.0tc as i like to enjoy the fight and very rarly have to cast past 70 yards i like to.enjoy all my battles with the fish hence no carp rods and i dony want to overkill it with the barbel fishing i like a good bend in my rod at all times

You say that you use 2.0 lb tc rods for all of yer carp fishing and don't use carp rods

Back in the seventies and early eighties when carp rods rods were predominantly glass and then slowly changing over to composite and carbon most carp rods then were actually 1 3/4 's , 2.0 and 2.25 lb tc and were normally 11 -12 ft,

I had and fished with many of em, nowadays with modern technology and overall performance of quality rods and reels the tc has been increased to more powerful rods for casting purposes,

Always remember that distance casting rods are fast actions rods that are tip action, there are also rods of the same tc but are more all through action rods, it's the through action rods that I personally prefer to use because these are more of a fish playing rod,

I'd use the through action rods mainly for marginal - short range fishing because although the test curves can be as much as IE 3 - 3.5 lb these have the power to wind down and hold very big powerful carp from getting themselves into marginal snags, over hanging tree branches and marginal weed beds, reeds and Lilly pads etc :thumbs:

It's all about understanding the construction of the blanks and what there actually capable of

 

[john step]

I couldnt go to 3lb tc that is surley overkill even on the wider stretches a max 2.5tc can chuck a 6 7 oz lead out each to there own though ive i no the trent can be bad though

Your choice of course. We are talking about 6 or 7 ounces of weight being cast a considerable distance across the width of the Lower Trent as you suggest.
That was the original criteria.
You can get away...just with light rods BUT when you need that bit extra they will be found to be wanting. Depending on the rod blank I think 2.5 and 3 lb are pretty close.
I was using the example of my 3lb rods as an example not a rule set in stone.

I use the 3lb rods because that is what I have and find them perfect.
In fact I had considered a couple of barbel rods advertised at 2.5tc and a local tackle said he would get a couple in for me. After I had to phone him a couple of times to remind him...they never materialised at all so I gave up.

I was using the 3lb rods as a stop gap and came to the realisation how good they were and why should I spent a good bit more money just for half a pound of test curve.

As intimated I use lighter rods for less weight and closer fishing.
For chub I use a quiver tip rod and lighter leads and fish the backdrop not the far side of course.

 

[nova12]

But surley a 3lb tc carp rods cant cast 6 or 7 once leads a good distance ? As barbel rods are alot stiffer and arr able to chuck these abnormal loads carp rods are for say casting a 3oz lead at range ur tip must be bent right over throwing 6 oz

 

[thecrow]

But surley a 3lb tc carp rods cant cast 6 or 7 once leads a good distance ? As barbel rods are alot stiffer and arr able to chuck these abnormal loads carp rods are for say casting a 3oz lead at range ur tip must be bent right over throwing 6 oz

What makes you think that barbel rods are stiffer than carp rods? stiffness in a rod is down to the taper, the TC and also the quality/material and number of wraps applied to the mandrel during manufacture. My barbell rods are a compound taper 1.75 tc and bend through the butt if I want them to.

All rods flex lots when casting, its the recovery of that bend that has been put into the rod by the angler that is the power in the cast, the faster it recovers the further the cast will be for a given load hence casting tools being mostly fast taper.

If you have doubts about using carp rods there are a couple of things you can do to help you make up your mind.

Take the advice given from other anglers who fish the Trent with heavy feeders.

When the season starts have a walk along a few sections to see what is being used.

Look at purchasing a floodwater barbel rod but I would bet money that they will be very similar to a 2.5 tc carp rod. there are only so many things that can be done during the manufacture of a mass produced rod, particularly one made to a price and sometimes you have to compromise.

The fox royale that you mentioned at 1.75tc will not be up to the job. Any rod that is constantly used for heavy work will soften over time reducing the TC.

 

[thames mudlarker]

But surley a 3lb tc carp rods cant cast 6 or 7 once leads a good distance ? As barbel rods are alot stiffer and arr able to chuck these abnormal loads carp rods are for say casting a 3oz lead at range ur tip must be bent right over throwing 6 oz

Sorry mate but that is absolute tosh mg:

There's no way in this world will barbel rods be stiffer than normal carp rods, barbel rods have a lighter test curve,

How on erf can a 1.75 or 2.0 lb flood water barbel rod be stiffer than a 3 - 3.5 lb carp rod, that is absolute nonsense

With all due respect I really feel that you need to study yer rods a bit more.

---------- Post added at 14:18 ---------- Previous post was at 14:14 ----------

What makes you think that barbel rods are stiffer than carp rods? stiffness in a rod is down to the taper, the TC and also the quality/material and number of wraps applied to the mandrel during manufacture. My barbell rods are a compound taper 1.75 tc and bend through the butt if I want them to.

All rods flex lots when casting, its the recovery of that bend that has been put into the rod by the angler that is the power in the cast, the faster it recovers the further the cast will be for a given load hence casting tools being mostly fast taper.

If you have doubts about using carp rods there are a couple of things you can do to help you make up your mind.

Take the advice given from other anglers who fish the Trent with heavy feeders.

When the season starts have a walk along a few sections to see what is being used.

Look at purchasing a floodwater barbel rod but I would bet money that they will be very similar to a 2.5 tc carp rod. there are only so many things that can be done during the manufacture of a mass produced rod, particularly one made to a price and sometimes you have to compromise.

The fox royale that you mentioned at 1.75tc will not be up to the job. Any rod that is constantly used for heavy work will soften over time reducing the TC.

Spot on, very well said, couldn't of said it any better :thumbs:

 

[associatedmatt]

All this talk of barbel rods its got me thinking about my drennan 1.5 avon quiver
, is this strong enough if im lucky to hook into a barbel ? i will be fishing the bristol avon .

 

[john step]

All this talk of barbel rods its got me thinking about my drennan 1.5 avon quiver
, is this strong enough if im lucky to hook into a barbel ? i will be fishing the bristol avon .

I am sure it will Matt. The previous talk was of loading rods to cast distances with very heavy leads and feeders. I dont know your river in question but an Avon rod of 1.5 should handle lines somewhere about 8lb bs give or take either side of that. I doubt we are talking 7oz weights casted to 70 yards plus here??
You can play big fish on that tackle fine.

 

[associatedmatt]

The river is about 25 foot wide average some faster areas than others but generally normally fairly slow . Pretty sure states can handle line Upto 12lb probably 5oz would be most but would only swing out not a punched lob .


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[thames mudlarker]

All this talk of barbel rods its got me thinking about my drennan 1.5 avon quiver
, is this strong enough if im lucky to hook into a barbel ? i will be fishing the bristol avon .

Most definitely, no question about it, back in the eighties before barbel rods really took a foot hold most of us would use normal feeder rods with std 2 oz tips and play barbel on these no problem,

Always remember it depends on the overall quality of the rod but probably more importantly it depends on how good of an angler you are yerself in knowing how to play big fish on light rods :wh

 

[associatedmatt]

I don't often rush or bully a fish unless it's needed to get out of the snags etc I don't think it's fair stressing the fish any more .


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[jasonbean1]

All this talk of barbel rods its got me thinking about my drennan 1.5 avon quiver
, is this strong enough if im lucky to hook into a barbel ? i will be fishing the bristol avon .

that's more than ample....and ive never read such a confusing thread about rodsmg: