Has barbel tackle gone to far?

[thecrow]

I don't really care if you've been fishing for barbel for a hundred years. I've done it myself and so has a lot of anglers. Tighten your clutch to the max, hold your rod horizontally and not vertically and hold on. If you're using the right actioned rod the barbel will give in.

Absolute tosh, if your rod is horizontal you are winding straight through the rings so the action will make no difference at all, winding doubles in yeah right.

I seem to remember another member on here with the same user name as you he got stuff wrong about a barbel dying that a lad caught a couple of weeks later, are you the same bloke?

 

[sam vimes]

you can only apply 1.75lbs with a 1.75lb test curve rod with a 90 degree bend

That's a bit of a red herring right there. A test curve is a measure of how much weight it takes to bend a rod through ninety degrees. It gives no indication of how much pressure can be applied by that rod. Rods do not get to their test curve and suddenly do no more. It's also true that, in some situations, you can apply more pressure with lower test curve rods.

Hardly scientific, but it's a reasonable demonstration of why test curves alone are a bit of a waste of time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp6b_AhxVGI

 

[theartist]

I feel undergunned right now, the rod I use for Barbel doesn't even have a tc rating and would struggle to cast out a 1oz lead, hey ho nevermind

 

[tigger]

Just dont use 6lb line

I use 4 and 6lb line pretty much every outing when barbel fishing and have no problems, so why don't use 6lb line? I actually bully them with 6lb line and have hit and held them to 10lb playing them soley off the stretch of the line and bend of the rod until I could gain a little line at a time....all the fish bolted away once released, no need to nurse them back to life as people do using heavy set ups and dragging them in tactics!

Only a couple of years ago I had 398 barbel during the course of the season, all but 27 of those where caught float fishing using a centrepin reel, float rod, 4 or 6lb mono and a 16's or 14's hooks. The 27 others where caught during a few hours legering one day on a dropping flood using 12lb mainline and 8lb bottom.

 

[sam vimes]

I feel undergunned right now, the rod I use for Barbel doesn't even have a tc rating and would struggle to cast out a 1oz lead, hey ho nevermind

If that's all your rivers and tactics require, there's no need for you to go heavier. More agricultural kit is only becomes necessary for certain tactics, certain rivers or flood conditions. If you don't need it, don't use it, I certainly don't. My 15' 2.75lb barbel rods have seen little to no action in over five years, along with most of my other barbel rods. They were bought with a single river, certain tactics and swims in mind. If not fishing those places, there's absolutely no need to use them. If I had to choose a single rod, notwithstanding the red herring that bare test curves can be, it would be a 1.75lb rod. In the majority of instances such a rod is quite adequate. In some scenarios it would be a little excessive.

 

[thecrow]

All about lots of things, river, river conditions method employed, swim being fished, experience, size of fish even what tackle the angler who may only be able to afford a compromise that suits both carp and barbel fishing, should an angler be excluded because he cannot afford several different rods? not in my book they shouldn't there are probably lots more reasons for using whatever tackle as only the angler fishing with it knows what he/she needs to use.

 

[mickb]

Tigger don't try and make out someone had the same username as me and got things wrong. Now that is tosh. And ur also calling me a liar. Just coz you can't do it doesn't mean it's tosh mate.

---------- Post added at 09:40 ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 ----------

Sorry tigger that was meant for thecrow. Your post was fine

 

[theartist]

If that's all your rivers and tactics require, there's no need for you to go heavier. More agricultural kit is only becomes necessary for certain tactics, certain rivers or flood conditions.

Absolutely, I'd say the rod/line power is more important for tackling fast flows and heavy leads than it is the fish it'self, on float you can get away with a lot lighter set up than lead. The rivers down here are slow even the Barbel ones although i've never found the need to go agricultural on the Wye, Teme or Severn. I'll use enough to get fish in in fast swims, so that you're not running downstream with the fish battling the flow trying to net it. 6lb will be my max, although prefer much lighter as usually after Roach which almost always results in Barbel turning up on the scene, compromise.

Mind you if you've hooked big Mullet in fast water, Barbel are pussies in comparison

 

[binka]

In the case of the Trent I think you will find that the heavier rods are used more for chucking out heavy gear rather than in consideration of the battle with the fish itself.

Not always, but often.

I've recently gone down in line strength when float fishing from 8lb main and 6lb bottom to 6lb main and 5.6lb bottom but there are swims where I wouldn't trot the lighter set up anymore.

On the heavy Avon rod and lead I generally use 10lb and the same for the bottom or occasionally 12 & 12 if it's snaggy, that's with a rod I rate at 1.6lb and would consider is a barbel stopper and there's one member on here who witnessed just that when I was fishing close (within inches!) to some tackle chomping structure before landing a 14-14 late summer fish.

Had that been 6lb line you could forget it but it also demonstrates that rods which don't necessarily conform to the usual (?) 5:1 maximum line rating to test curve ratio are more than capable of stopping a lump whereas other, heavier rods just might not have had they bottomed out and locked up which is easily achievable even with a much heavier rod.

I think it was Sam who said it earlier, it's horses for course and I would add that there are too many variables to advocate one thing over another as being standard recommended practice and those variables extend to the properties of the gear as well as the swim and river characteristics... Just my opinion mind, I state nothing as fact.

Graham...

If you're wondering what I'm doing back I forgot me hooks mg:

 

[thecrow]

If you're wondering what I'm doing back I forgot me hooks

I was wondering why you were on here instead of the river, as for forgetting your hooks I wont tell anyone if you don't

 

[greenie62]

....I seem to remember another member on here with the same user name as you he got stuff wrong about a barbel dying that a lad caught a couple of weeks later, are you the same bloke?

Confused ?
Can't blame you - there have been 3 x MickB's on here over the last few years afaik
- Mick_b -
- Mick b -
- Mickb -
One of them - an ex-keeper down in Wessex - stopped posting after he got p-ed off with some of the d-heads on here

The first two caused most confusion because when the names are underlined they are indistinguishable.

You'd think such confusion would never happen here with such rigorous joining procedures! mg:

 

[mikench]

Mickb I did read your post! Properly isn't an adverb I would necessarily use but I did read it all and most interesting it was too. I bow to your superior knowledge about the noble barbel and the best fishing techniques. I have a 14'float rod and if I need to increase the bs or diameter of the line I will do so and if credit is due it shall be given! My 6lb line is .24mm , hardly significantly thinner than the diameter advocated by you.

 

[thecrow]

Confused ?

Something that happens more often and easier as I get older, I have already been told I have some age related brain atrophy

Now where did I put that 90lbs braid?

 

[mickb]

I don't profess to be an expert and I apologise to the crow if there were three mickb's on here. I have never once gave bad advice. Most of my posts have been on asking advice off people in my attempt to learn more. Nobody knows it all. My post was down to my own experience of the way barbel fishing has changed during my twenty years of fishing for them. What I have found is that barbel sizes peaked over 15 years ago but people are going higher and higher in breaking strain lines and test curves. Barbel are still barbel and the average size is still under double figures. Crazy that people use 30lb braid for them to drag them away from snags and the advantages of having a 30lb line with the diameter of 8lb mono. Has anyone ever tried to break 30lb line when snagged? This is crazy. 2.75lb test curve rods is equally as bonkers. Isn't it nicer to fish for barbel with lower test curve rods and less weight on feeders? Not to mention your long walk to your swim is more comfortable carrying less weight.

 

[tigger]

I don't profess to be an expert and I apologise to the crow if there were three mickb's on here. I have never once gave bad advice. Most of my posts have been on asking advice off people in my attempt to learn more. Nobody knows it all. My post was down to my own experience of the way barbel fishing has changed during my twenty years of fishing for them. What I have found is that barbel sizes peaked over 15 years ago but people are going higher and higher in breaking strain lines and test curves. Barbel are still barbel and the average size is still under double figures. Crazy that people use 30lb braid for them to drag them away from snags and the advantages of having a 30lb line with the diameter of 8lb mono. Has anyone ever tried to break 30lb line when snagged? This is crazy. 2.75lb test curve rods is equally as bonkers. Isn't it nicer to fish for barbel with lower test curve rods and less weight on feeders? Not to mention your long walk to your swim is more comfortable carrying less weight.

Funny enough only last year I was having trouble fishing a swim where I had to use a sweeping strike and hold the rod back at the end of the strike to keep fish from diving into a snag. There was no time to to wind in any line whatsoever and if any line was give the fish would be under a fallen tree. To tempt the fish to take my bait I had to cast across river and trot down the very edge of the tree trunk, the float often slid along the tree so as I struck I drove the hook home and pulled the fish from the snag at the same time. Because of the bend in the rod and the stretch in the line the fish must have been inches or less from getting into the snag which made them pull all the harder and so I had to hold my arm back at the end of the strike position until the fish had calmed down a little. I would then wind in a few turns of the pin and continue to do that until i'd got the fish far enough away from the snag that I could play it in a normal fashion. Because of the combination of the tautness of the line and the fish scraping the line on rocks my 6lb did part a few times. I then decided to swap the float rod and set up for a marksman 11ft 6 inch avon and 1.75 test chimera, used an ounce bomb and touch legered. Obviously I upped my line rating, my hook sizes and used hook lengths. After trying 12lb mono which due to it's thickness it caught the flow and towed my weight away from the snag I tried 10lb berkley fireline crystal which was ok but was too damaged everytime i'd played a fish and I had to set up every time i'd caught one. I then used 30lb power pro and it worked perfectly but even that often got some serious abrasion after catching a fish and I had to cut some off and re tackle. I've always found braid to be a no no in a rocky river as it often snaps like cotton when under pressure and grazed on a rock but it seems that in higher strains PP (at least) is very abrasion resistant. So, in that situation using that method (touch legering) and at that time 30lb PP was the best option I could find. Incidentally have fished that swim since and the offending obstacle that was causing the break offs seemed to have vanished and I was able to use my 6lb sensor on a normal float rod once more.

 

[flightliner]

Many a bb angler on the trent who uses "big" rods and heavy leads to cast to the far side of the river could dispense with them altogether and use much lighter gear by simply fishing from the opposite bank and casting little more then a few feet from the rod end--- a kamazan block end feeder weighing 30/ 40 ish grammes is all thats needed with normal summer levels.

 

[john step]

Many a bb angler on the trent who uses "big" rods and heavy leads to cast to the far side of the river could dispense with them altogether and use much lighter gear by simply fishing from the opposite bank and casting little more then a few feet from the rod end--- a kamazan block end feeder weighing 30/ 40 ish grammes is all thats needed with normal summer levels.

I very much like the idea of this course of action. Unfortunately not always practicable for me with different clubs and books and access and distance to drive around.
Whenever possible I use an 1.7 barbel rod but there are a couple of places that I call my banker swims where I use heavy stuff to get to the barbel in the biggest flow against the far side where I have never seen any one else fish/cast. I have found this a great benefit in lower water conditions or daylight.
To avoid too much casting and disturbance I like to use a big lead in a PVA stocking with half boilies and pellets big enough to put a good bit of bait in and then leave it. I hook the stocking making a long hooklength more manageable.

Not the most delicate type of fishing but sometimes irresistible.

 

[thecrow]

What I have found is that barbel sizes peaked over 15 years ago

Sorry but I cannot agree with that, the British record was caught in 2006 with many more near that weight some of which have been reported some have not.

I know of a river record from a river up north that would have beaten the existing record by a large margin had the angler wanted to claim it. I knew the angler and saw the photographs of the fish which incidentally was caught on 30lb braid reel line.

I believe that we are yet to see the best of the Tidal Trent so much of it never sees an angler.

 

[tigger]

I believe that we are yet to see the best of the Tidal Trent so much of it never sees an angler.

I think if I lived close enough i'd be there everyday I could be. I know just how good a river can fish on an incoming tide and have had some superb sessions fishing them, these rivers have nothing in the way of barbel that the Trent will have and I can only imagine whats lurking in there....gott'a be some huge barbel!

 

[ken more]

More questions than answers for me anyway. If i go Sea fishing, for example, and cast 6-8oz leads, how can i still see bites from small fish? I read plenty about test curves being all but meaningless (agree mostly) but they keep appearing