What makes a good Centrepin

[trotter2]

Hi Alan

I have had more than one of each of all the pins you recommended, never had an older hardy conquest mind.
Some people really like them :thumbs:
The match aerial can be a pain in the butt some times but perseverance for me helped greatly with that one .
It's now one of my favourites .

You made a good point regarding advantages and again its keeping things in perspective you don't have to pay a fortune to get a reel that trotts a float smoothly.

I would like to see more true pins made these days at an offordable price instead of a constant bombardment of bearing reels which are flooding the market place.
It's personal preference I know .

 

[Alan Tyler]

For slow rivers, true pin every time; the difference in drag between reel-flat and reel-vertical gives much subtler control than the thumb or micro-drag can.
Once you reach the speeds at which a 4 or 5 BB float is merrily whisking away line off a spokes'n'pillars reel, corners-and-all, it hardly matters. Or am I, as so often happens, missing something?

BTW, I was wrong about Matey's reel, he has two Purists, not Heritage, and loves them; but they are cage-and-drum, which would put Wallis addicts off. Nothing is simple, is it?

 

[thecrow]

I would like to see more true pins made these days at an offordable price instead of a constant bombardment of bearing reels which are flooding the market place.

Genuine question why?

 

[sam vimes]

Genuine question why?

I'm looking forward to the answer too. Not because I don't agree entirely, just because it's pretty difficult to explain to folks without it sounding like you have disappeared up your own backside.

Needless to say, I (and others) find that they behave differently to a bearing reel. The difference only becomes apparent when trotting, but it's a fairly subtle difference. It's taken me quite some time to appreciate it. Bearing reels are fine, I have a few myself, but I definitely prefer a true pin. If my centrepin angling didn't revolve around trotting, I doubt I'd ever have noticed or cared for the difference.

 

[dalesman]

Not yet. I like them a lot, but they aren't even properly run in yet.

Definitely not a reel for those obsessed by spin times though, at least not when they are still fairly new.

I have one of the new bearing pins, but not keen on the wide drum. But once my old rapidex and trudex I have had since my teens had now been cleaned and serviced are a joy to use. Loaded with Guru 4ld drag line

What are peoples opinions on wide or narrow drum for pins.

I was back in the Sunderland a month ago and I visited the old tackle shop I used and watched the sales assistant demonstrate the speed of a new pin, at the rate he spinning it he would have one hell of a birds nest in seconds. mg:

 

[trotter2]

Genuine question why?

I am not touching that one with a barge pole crow
We have been here before on more than one occasion.

 

[Philip]

I don’t doubt there is a difference between true pins and bearing pins that experienced users will be able to note but I am interested in how that difference actually translates to something meaningful in practical fishing terms ?

If for example one somehow run smoother or takes less inertia to get going than the other then ok perhaps I can visualize that this may offer a practical advantage in say slow flows although of course the first spec of mud on the drum would put paid to that.

After that what else is there ?

 

[tigger]

If for example one somehow run smoother or takes less inertia to get going than the other then ok perhaps I can visualize that this may offer a practical advantage in say slow flows although of course the first spec of mud on the drum would put paid to that.

After that what else is there ?

You've lost me with the speck of mud

 

[Philip]

You've lost me with the speck of mud

What I mean is that if one does indeed run that tiny bit smoother than the other to a degree that only an experienced hand would notice then I am saying the first spec of mud on the drum or first bit of grit in the spool would cancel out that tiny advantage anyway.

 

[tigger]

What I mean is that if one does indeed run that tiny bit smoother than the other to a degree that only an experienced hand would notice then I am saying the first spec of mud on the drum or first bit of grit in the spool would cancel out that tiny advantage anyway.

Not really Philip, but if it did then i'd stop for a moment and remove the mud .

One difference between a bush pin and a ball racer pin in use....say your fishing a run where the pace quickens and slows as your float goes through, a ballrace reel will just keep spinning at full throttle and if your not keeping full attention you'll most probably finish up with a number of coils of line around the reel due to the overun....now if you where using a true pin the spool starts to slow and speed up with the flow to an extent which cuts down on overuns and tangles. Now there are others but that's just one advantage a bush and pin reel has over a ball bearing reel .

 

[Philip]

One difference between a bush pin and a ball racer pin in use....say your fishing a run where the pace quickens and slows as your float goes through, a ballrace reel will just keep spinning at full throttle and if your not keeping full attention you'll most probably finish up with a number of coils of line around the reel due to the overun....now if you where using a true pin the spool starts to slow and speed up with the flow to an extent which cuts down on overuns and tangles. Now there are others but that's just one advantage a bush and pin reel has over a ball bearing reel

Ok thats a fair point and would indeed be an advantage...although I am struggling to understand how the bush and pin reel actually manages to slow itself down ?

Not doubting it , just trying to get my head round the physics of it !

 

[Alan Tyler]

I can't have made myself clear - with a true pin, if you hold the reel flat, all the weight of the drum is borne by the end-float screw running on the tip of the pin, a tiny area offering very little friction. As you let the reel swing down into the vertical, under-the-rod position, progressively more of the weight is taken by the bushing running on the pin-as-axle, offering progressively more friction. This gives a smooth, reactive variation in braking without recourse to thumbing the drum or trying different settings of the microdrag which is very helpful with small floats and slow flows.
For strong flows, it probably makes no useful difference, but I haven't fished a fast river for ages, so it may be worth experimenting if you do.

 

[sam vimes]

If for example one somehow run smoother or takes less inertia to get going than the other then ok perhaps I can visualize that this may offer a practical advantage in say slow flows although of course the first spec of mud on the drum would put paid to that.

After that what else is there ?

Nothing in your post is exclusive to true pins. Bearing reels can have low inertia and be excellent in low flows. Such low inertia has as much to do with the weight of the spool as anything else.

The difference when trotting with a true pin is in the way that line comes off the reel and the reel responds to changes of pace in the flow. Bearing reels have a tendency to get up to speed and keep on running regardless. True pins don't run quite as freely and seem to respond when the flow reduces or increases as your float travels downstream. In a similar vein, they don't tend to be as badly affected by an errant gust of wind or a loop of line caught in shifting flow. No denying that judicial use of the thumb can make up for the slight over running effect this can have in a bearing reel, but it's nice to be able to keep such action to a minimum. You may also be able to slow a bearing pin down a little if it's fitted with a micro-drag, but doing so also increases the start up inertia. The other thing you can do with a true pin is slow it down by small amounts just by rotating the rod/reel from the horizontal.

Now those that won't believe a word of that will be expecting that I'll have to go and extract my head from my backside. :wh I suspect that regular river trotters that use true pins will understand what I'm getting at. Many others will be thinking I'm away with the fairies. Anyone stillwater float fishing or ledgering with pins couldn't care less either way.

 

[Philip]

I can't have made myself clear - with a true pin, if you hold the reel flat, all the weight of the drum is borne by the end-float screw running on the tip of the pin, a tiny area offering very little friction. As you let the reel swing down into the vertical, under-the-rod position, progressively more of the weight is taken by the bushing running on the pin-as-axle, offering progressively more friction. This gives a smooth, reactive variation in braking without recourse to thumbing the drum or trying different settings of the microdrag which is very helpful with small floats and slow flows.
For strong flows, it probably makes no useful difference, but I haven't fished a fast river for ages, so it may be worth experimenting if you do.

Ok now thats something I can start to get my head around ...so basically your saying on a bush and pin you have an option of adding or decreasing friction by tilting the reel....not by allot but enough to make a difference in gently flows.

Is this going to be true of all bush and pin reels or (as I suspect) mainly in the top end ones ?

 

[Philip]

True pins don't run quite as freely and seem to respond when the flow reduces or increases as your float travels downstream. In a similar vein, they don't tend to be as badly affected by an errant gust of wind or a loop of line caught in shifting flow.

Again this is something I can begin to get my head round. So its the fact they run slightly LESS smoothly than a bearing pin that could be looked at as an advantage.

I must say even in my pin novice hands I have noticed that bearing pins have a tendancy to just keep on turning if you dont keep a careful eye or should that be thumb on them..

 

[sam vimes]

Is this going to be true of all bush and pin reels or (as I suspect) mainly in the top end ones ?

Every variation of true pin I've encountered would act in the same way. Depending on the design, the amount of difference may vary a little. The easiest way to see it is to spin a true pin on its back. If you then turn it through ninety degrees it'll slow. Turn it through another ninety degrees and, chances are, it'll stop in fairly short order. With most of the nut/screw secured (winch) reels, none of that will make a jot of difference to the reel spinning.

 

[tigger]

Ok now thats something I can start to get my head around ...so basically your saying on a bush and pin you have an option of adding or decreasing friction by tilting the reel....not by allot but enough to make a difference in gently flows.

Is this going to be true of all bush and pin reels or (as I suspect) mainly in the top end ones ?

What Alan says is right but that isn't what I meant.
It will be the same with all bush and pin reels....the variation in speed/inhertia when you angle the reel in use.

 

[Philip]

Every variation of true pin I've encountered would act in the same way. Depending on the design, the amount of difference may vary a little. The easiest way to see it is to spin a true pin on its back. If you then turn it through ninety degrees it'll slow. Turn it through another ninety degrees and, chances are, it'll stop in fairly short order. With most of the nut/screw secured (winch) reels, none of that will make a jot of difference to the reel spinning.

This is something I will indeed try when I next come across a true pin.

Good one !

 

[sam vimes]

Again this is something I can begin to get my head round. So its the fact they run slightly LESS smoothly than a bearing pin that could be looked at as an advantage.

Yes, though it seems like a bizarre contradiction. Ideally, you want a reel with low inertia that starts at the merest provocation but also slows and stops almost as easily. Once up to speed, bearing reels have a tendency just to keep going, even when you don't really want them to. This is exactly why the obsession that so many seem to have with spin times on centrepins is a bit of a red herring.

 

[Philip]

What Alan says is right but that isn't what I meant.

Yes I sort of know what your getting at but having never used a true pin I only have bearing pins as my point of reference.

One thing I would say guys is that this just adds to the list of reasons not to clean my reels ! ...a good bit of gunge in there will help to slow it all down a bit.