Lower t.c. Rods

ben10

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Anyone know what happened to using lower t.c rods for barbel? Everyone seems to be going for 1.75 and up to 2.5....which I can understand for bigger rivers with bigger leads and longer casts but when I started fishing everyone used 1.25lb barbel rods but it's almost unheard of now?

I'd have thought you could exert more pressure on the fish due to the more forgiving nature of the rod? Also, most float rods that are used to trot can't have a t.c that exceeds this?

Just wondering why the trend has moved on?
 

sam vimes

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An awful lot of different types of rods have heavier actions and higher ratings than they did twenty to thirty years ago. Carp rods, barbel rods, poles and, yes, even "match" type float rods. With carp and barbel rods it's obvious due to the test curve ratings. It's less obvious with float rods due to the inconsistent way that they are rated. However, if you look at the general trend in line ratings, or casting weights, they've definitely crept up over the years. Another indicator is if you actually try to buy a modern equivalent of the old style light match rods, there are very few about. Drennan have given line ratings for years. Just look at their old match rods compared to their new ones. Despite the fact that they still do lighter float rods than much of the competition, their line ratings are quite a bit higher than the old stuff. Take the IM8 Super Waggler at 1.7-3.2lb mainlines, 10oz-2.4lb hooklength. The IM8 Specimen Float, 2-6lb mainlines. Team England Action Tip, 1.5-2.5lb mainline, 10oz-2lb hooklength. IM8 Super Crystalite, 1.7-2.6lb mainline, 6oz-1lb 8oz. Only the Crystalite was considered particularly light actioned back then. The out and out specimen float rod ratings look decidedly average compared to modern match rods. When you consider that the current light Drennan float rods are the Acolyte Ultra (2.5-4lb+ main, 1-3.5lb hook) and the Matchpro Ultralight (2.5-5lb main, 1-4lb hook), it definitely shows the relative increase over the years. Perhaps there was some element of them playing safer with ratings back then, but I wouldn't attribute the increases entirely to that. The average modern "match" float rod is rated to 6lb mainlines. Specimen or commercial float rods are likely to have ratings up to 8, or even 10lb mainlines.

When it comes to carp and barbel rods, a large part of the creep is down to the methods being used and the increase in leads/feeders being used. I'd also suggest that people expect to be able to cast further and further using those bigger leads. The bottom line is that increased test curve ratings in such rods has very little to do with the size of the fish concerned. It also gives no indication of the rod having a fast or through action. It's quite possible to get a through actioned rod with exactly the same test curve rating as a fast actioned rod. They'll feel quite different in use though. You can still extract decent barbel on a 1.25lb rod, or a damned good carp on a 1.75-2.25lb carp rod of old. However, you'd probably wreck them if you tried to cast too far or use the heavy leads/feeders/PVA bags that are commonly used now.
 
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binka

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By far my most enjoyable barbel rods are a pair of 1lb t/c Avons, I rarely use a feeder and am often fishing under my feet or within a couple of rod lengths.

Agree entirely on what has already been said about heavier rods taking into account what weight and how far it's being chucked.

I have and do use heavier but usually in situations where I need to stop a fish fast, eg. close to structure or a snag, but my 'heavy' would rate at around 1.6lb t/c.

I have used my deadbait rods (2.75lb) in heavy flood conditions but can't say that I felt much enjoyment.
 

yorkieman

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The first post made me think I'd chosen the wrong TC as only yesterday morning I purchased a Drennan Avon/Quiver 12ft 1.75.
The following two posts has made me feel better... lol.

Although not used the rod yet it feels very nice and well made.
 

sagalout

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I've got a twin tip with 1lb and a 1.25lb but it can't chuck a 2.5oz feeder full of pellets across the Wye, so I had to buy a Korum 1.75.
 

nottskev

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You're probably right about a trend for heavier rods. I have one of these

fm.jpg

that I bought in 2002. I think it was designed by some of the luminaries on this very site around the turn of the century (Most of my gear is like the Antiques Roadshow) and I'd guess it's test curve would be about 1lb 6 oz or so. It's very light, slim and has an elastic through action. Said luminaries thought it made an ideal general barbel rod.

I really liked it as a barbel rod on the smaller rivers where I used to live, but when I came down here it didn't suit the heavy flow and snaggy terrain of the middle Trent, but it was ideal on the lower Derwent, which I much preferred to fish.

It could be that the changes in the barbel population have been a factor in people seeming to go for heavier rods. When I first fished there, in 2004/5, you could catch several barbel in an evening on the Derwent, and they'd be between 4 and 8lbs. Now, you might fish several evenings and get only one bite from a barbel, but it could be well into double figures. It's not an equation I like - I was happy to catch them whether big or small, and I stopped fishing for them a while back.

But I've bought into a more prolific Trent stretch this year, so, come summer, I'll be hoping to get this rod out again and catch a couple close in on, by today's standards, a light-ish set up.
 
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binka

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But I've bought into a more prolific Trent stretch this year, so, come summer, I'll be hoping to get this rod out again and catch a couple close in on, by today's standards, a light-ish set up.

You will Kev, you will ;)
 
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binka

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I have and do use heavier but usually in situations where I need to stop a fish fast, eg. close to structure or a snag, but my 'heavy' would rate at around 1.6lb t/c.

I bought in 2002. I think it was designed by some of the luminaries on this very site around the turn of the century (Most of my gear is like the Antiques Roadshow) and I'd guess it's test curve would be about 1lb 6 oz or so. It's very light, slim and has an elastic through action. Said luminaries thought it made an ideal general barbel rod.

Amen :) ..............
 

ben10

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I've found this on my local stretch. I remember 14 years or so ago fishing it with my grandad as a teenager and you'd have 7/8 fish a session each, mixture of chub and barbel, the chub would be a couple of lbs (although I did have a 6lb 4oz once and it's still my pb to this day) and the barbel between 3 and 5lbs. I concentrated on that stretch again a couple of years ago and in 7 sessions I had 3 chub of around 4 lb and up and 1 barbel at 9lb - I also had to fish through the night to get all but 1 of the chub. They are getting bigger but it's such a shame that those days of turning up, having a day session and bagging a few, have gone. I'm no specimen hunter really and would much rather have a great days fishing than spend weeks blanking for the reward of 1, bigger, specimen. But hey ho, it is what it is!
 

barbelboi

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Was that the Sulis Jerry???

Not quite Alan - Harrison's modified the design a bit later and then sold it as the Sulis (four options I believe).
Four Piece 11′ 1 1/2lb - 11′ Avon Quiver - 12′ 1 1/2lb Specialist Quiver - 12′ 1 3/4lb Specialist Quiver
 

tigger

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Not quite Alan - Harrison's modified the design a bit later and then sold it as the Sulis (four options I believe).
Four Piece 11′ 1 1/2lb - 11′ Avon Quiver - 12′ 1 1/2lb Specialist Quiver - 12′ 1 3/4lb Specialist Quiver

There was a sulis travel rod at 12ft 1.75 test also.
 

john step

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I've got a twin tip with 1lb and a 1.25lb but it can't chuck a 2.5oz feeder full of pellets across the Wye, so I had to buy a Korum 1.75.

I think you have hit the nail on the head here. I got it in the neck a bit last year on here about using heavier rods on the Trent for barbel with the suggestion that the stronger tackle would be winching them in. Its the casting distance and casting weight thats the criteria.
If only they were all available to catch under the rod top!
 

John Keane

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One of my nicest rods is a Drennan Avon Quiver 1.25lb which I use for barbel on the Severn under normal flow conditions. I used to own a 10ft Hardy Richard Walker Avon in glass that had a tc of 1lb and was a lovely summer barbel & chub rod. Modern test curves are OTT unless you’re on the Tidal Trent. Quoting 2lb as a standard for barbel is madness!
 
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ian g

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I bought a couple of Drennan specialist 1.25 TC rods off a member a few years back . Lovely old school through action rods great for catching barbel . Not great for throwing big feeders across the Severn , I don't do that often though.
 

Artie

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There is no doubt in my mind that the playing action of an Avon is a joy to use, however the TC restsricts casting weights so there has always been a trade off or compromise between action & TC. That said moderen rods are capable of having a through action with a high TC. Having used throgh action 1LB or 1.5LB through action for many years, however flood conditions on the severn are very much on the increase this dictated I needed something more robust, I prefered the action of the 2.25 to the 1.75 , I so purchassed a 2.25 Free spirit Big River Barbel having used it for the last 4 years its become my faviourite for all conditins. The thing is if it does the job and your happy with it, thats the rod for you.
 

ben10

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There is no doubt in my mind that the playing action of an Avon is a joy to use, however the TC restsricts casting weights so there has always been a trade off or compromise between action & TC. That said moderen rods are capable of having a through action with a high TC. Having used throgh action 1LB or 1.5LB through action for many years, however flood conditions on the severn are very much on the increase this dictated I needed something more robust, I prefered the action of the 2.25 to the 1.75 , I so purchassed a 2.25 Free spirit Big River Barbel having used it for the last 4 years its become my faviourite for all conditins. The thing is if it does the job and your happy with it, thats the rod for you.

Yeah I have 2.25 daiwa infinities that I tend to use on the Thames off the back of weirs or when I'm using large capacity feeders so I'm aware of the need for such test curves but I just see a lot of posts and people on the bank that use 1.75/2lb rods for flicking small 1oz leads 15/20 yards or less that an Avon rod would handle admirably. Even most tackle companies now state 1.75 or 2lb for barbel, almost as though a 1 1/4 is no longer able to handle a barbel lol. I guess it's just the trend! But I also don't disagree that there is certainly times when a heavier rod is needed due to river conditions.
 

108831

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One of my nicest rods is a Drennan Avon Quiver 1.25lb which I use for barbel on the Severn under normal flow conditions. I used to own a 10ft Hardy Richard Walker Avon in glass that had a tc of 1lb and was a lovely summer barbel & chub rod. Modern test curves are OTT unless you’re on the Tidal Trent. Quoting 2lb as a standard for barbel is madness!

I still have my Hardy 10ft Avon,though I haven't used it for many,many years,I used it on the Trent casting 2-3ozs on a block end for barbel and chub over to the far bank,easily and accurately,casting 2oz feeders with pellet across the Thames around Oxford is easy imo on a 1.5lb t.c. rod,unless you try to cast with the feeder less than two feet from the rod tip,then people are numpties and deserve their rods to break...
 
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