Self hooking rigs ?

[POLEMINATOR]

Good or bad ? Worth a try or a big no no ?

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[barbelboi]

The name gives it away - the fish hooks itself.....................

 

[rich66]

Like everything they have there uses. Depends what you’re after

 

[POLEMINATOR]

The name gives it away - the fish hooks itself.....................

Never would of guessed lol

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[John Keane]

In practice any 4” hooklength anchored to a heavy Method feeder is a self-hooking rig. Nothing controversial about them despite some more traditional anglers pouring scorn on them.

 

[steve2]

Strange thing about self hooking rigs is that they are banned on most commercial carp lakes on fish welfare grounds but classed as OK on carp lakes were the welfare of carp is seen as paramount. I would think that we have all used them at so time or the other.

 

[POLEMINATOR]

Unless it hooks deeper or something, why does it matter if a hook self hooks or hooks with a strike ? The fish is hooked regardless, surely the best welfare of a fish is for it not to be hooked if there worried about welfare ?

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[steve2]

Unless it hooks deeper or something, why does it matter if a hook self hooks or hooks with a strike ? The fish is hooked regardless, surely the best welfare of a fish is for it not to be hooked if there worried about welfare ?

Which opens up another can of worms, should we fish at all if we are worried about fish welfare?

Regarding self hooking rigs on most commercials all rigs are suppose to be free running so the weight fulls off if the line breaks. On other carp lakes where rigs are not free running the rigs is suppose to release the weight if the line breaks or the fish is snagged. From what I have seen this doesn't always happen and the fish ends up towing around a few ounces of lead.

 

[sam vimes]

Unless there is absolutely zero resistance, there's some level of self hooking in every rig. The efficiency of the self hooking effect tends to depend on weight when legering and resistance through the water in the case of floats. The effect can be enhanced when legering by the use of heavier bobbins and stiffer tips. When fishing rivers, the flow itself can be utilised to increase self hooking. There are an awful lot of people that are rather puritanical about bolt rigs, (semi) fixed leads and hair rigs that are happily using self hooking rigs in a different form.

When it comes to fish welfare, things have got incredibly murky. The number of people that are desperate to berate others on the topic, seemingly just to prove that they care more, is to the point of being ridiculous. The sad part of it all is that they seem to conveniently forget that they are sticking hooks in fish, and dragging them out of their natural environment, for their own fun. No amount of soft nets, unhooking mats and fish care kits will negate that fact.

 

[sylvanillo]

Entirely agree. Any rig imply one or more tricks to encourage self hooking. And I've discovered it's even more with coarse fishing.

With a method feeder, self-hooking uses the feeder weight itself as the bigger fish will move the feeder horizontally or vertically which will set the hook, if there's a stop the smaller fish hooks itself on the stop, and there's the tip resistance as well.

But I know some people in France say they don't use a feeder rod, they've always been using any type of strong rod with a spring (the ancestor of the method feeder) and a very short hooklink, and they like it because a big fish literally hooks itself and dislodges the rod. A bit brutal?....

On the other hand, a loop rig and a very long hooklink is so efficient in itself, and I have never ever seen a hook deeply swallowed. I remember the barbel and big bream in Belgium, when using a long 5 or 6 ft hooklink, well I'm pretty sure that they hook themselves on the stop. And on the canal the other day, I was surprised that the feeder being between 2 stops at a small distance of 3 inches make a roach self hook so well. All had the hook on lip so I suppose that's good enough as a non-barbarian rig. Good enough for me as well, since to date I haven't managed to strike on a feeder take!!

 

[nottskev]

Unless there is absolutely zero resistance, there's some level of self hooking in every rig.

No doubt it can be argued that any rig has some level of self-hooking - even if it's only a potential to do so. But some rigs are more self-hooking than others, and the difference between the ends of this spectrum is vast.

To take just one example, waiting for shy river roach to hook themselves on a link legered maggot is likely to be a recipe for failure, and can be a frustrating business even when you try your best to hit the twitches and trembles. I sat behind Bob Nudd in his pomp at the Evesham festival to watch him catch roach like this, and saw him bounce his rod down in temper after missing three consecutive bites. These roach either didn't know who he was, or didn't know his rig had self-hooking properties.

I've found most traditional bomb/link legering rarely produces fish that haven't been struck - although now and again a fish will bolt or somehow get itself hooked; generally, bites need to be studied, struck and can easily be missed. By contrast, when I've used method feeders I've found the fish is hooked when the tip goes around, end of story.

I guess that in theory, some inertia in the rig will go some way to providing resistance against which a fish can hook itself, but in practice, there are many occasions when it appears negligible. I pole-fish a lake for bream of the 2-4lb size, and the tiniest dips and lifts of a dotted float are all the indications you will get. You would wait a long time for self-hooking to get you one. On one occasion, I arrived at the lake without floats, so I cobbled together a method feeder set-up, and was surprised and amused that these shy sneaky bream cheerfully hung themselves on some method-feedered bright orange sweet-type bait.
I'm quite well aware that self-hooking rigs can be efficient and are a logical answer to some problems.
I'm just saying that, if we want to say all rigs have a bit of self-hooking about them thanks to their inertia, that risks obscuring the enormous differences in the way they work and what is left for anglers to do to hook fish. Whichever sort someone prefers is their business.

 

[sam vimes]

Kev, be fair, don't just quote one sentence when the rest of the paragraph goes on to say precisely that there is a variance in just how effective a rig might be when it comes to its self hooking properties.

Unless there is absolutely zero resistance, there's some level of self hooking in every rig. The efficiency of the self hooking effect tends to depend on weight when legering and resistance through the water in the case of floats. The effect can be enhanced when legering by the use of heavier bobbins and stiffer tips. When fishing rivers, the flow itself can be utilised to increase self hooking. There are an awful lot of people that are rather puritanical about bolt rigs, (semi) fixed leads and hair rigs that are happily using self hooking rigs in a different form.

My only beef is with the puritans that will happily use dink rigs and the like whilst castigating those that use out and out bolt rigs. The reality is often a case of spot the difference. Unless someone goes out of their way to minimize any chance of self hooking (using the lightest possible floats and leger weights), they aren't really in a position to criticize anyone. I don't care what legal methods anyone might choose to use. I just wish the puritans would allow others the same grace.

 

[nottskev]

Kev, be fair, don't just quote one sentence when the rest of the paragraph goes on to say precisely that there is a variance in just how effective a rig might be when it comes to its self hooking properties.



My only beef is with the puritans that will happily use dink rigs and the like whilst castigating those that use out and out bolt rigs. The reality is often a case of spot the difference. Unless someone goes out of their way to minimize any chance of self hooking (using the lightest possible floats and leger weights), they aren't really in a position to criticize anyone. I don't care what legal methods anyone might choose to use. I just wish the puritans would allow others the same grace.

Fair enough, Chris - I saw what you were getting at, and I just wanted to add that at one end of the spectrum the self-hooking effect can be negligible.

If I'm fishing for a small number of bites from big fish - in my fishing, that's most likely to be barbel, I'm grateful for a bit of help from a rig - and for barbel's helpful tendency to hook themselves on bomb or feeder. I do see why increasing the self-hooking nature of rigs can make sense for a number of specialist pursuits that I don't do.

My take on it comes out of the style of fishing I've always done - a light match-style approach where a lot of the pleasure is in getting light gear to work, getting shot and tell-tale shot working, getting your feed and presentation together, spotting bites and hitting them at the right time. It's about the means as well as the ends, and I suppose that's why I jump in and challenge the "all rigs are self-hooking" idea (I know you modified it!).

I'd also admit that when I read "self-hooking" it puts me in mind of the way the method feeder became a commercial fishery default method, which may well be my association rather than your intention - and whilst there is genius in the way this method combines feed/presentation/self-hooking in one little package, and whilst it's true that some can take the method to great heights, in general, I think it's a good symbol of the way some contemporary fishing lets anglers use less skill to catch more fish than ever. When the best advice of former international anglers is now reduced to a) don't move the feeder b) don't strike - just pick up and wind, you know things have gone backwards a bit.

I appreciate that's my tangential take on your point about rigs and inertia.

 

[steve2]

What is a dink rig?

I would say that every fish I catch on lures is self hooked. Can't remember ever having to strike a take.
I would also say that most carp are now caught on one form or another of a self hooking rig.
Does it really matter, of course it doesn't.

 

[sam vimes]

What is a dink rig?

It's just a method of fishing a lead set up to dislodge easily if a fish picks up the bait. The lead moving tends to result in self hooking and a drop back indication at the tip. How exactly the rig is set up is anyone's guess. There's plenty of stuff out there, including on this forum. Plenty of name anglers don't agree on the history or the exact set up.

 

[nottskev]

Here's the gospel according to Bob Roberts. It's a Trent method, late 80's/early 90's. Hook tied in well above feeder to catch fish that are taking bait spilling out and following the feeder down, but have learnt not to take the bait on the bottom. Stiff tip+ heavy feeder = self hooking.

 

[sylvanillo]

I had never heard of this rig. Really interesting!

 

[nottskev]

I had never heard of this rig. Really interesting!

A positive comment! Have a pic of the recommended knot

 

[POLEMINATOR]

Interesting read everyone, I'm glad I asked the question,

I've caught fish on the float without striking, once even my float went under and stayed under when my pole was not in my hand lifted pole up and had a fish on,

I'm guessing sometimes the fishes bite is the self hooking mechanism,

Since being on these forums, I'm fascinated by how much thought you all put into your fishing,

I turn up, rig up, plumb up, bait up, put the hook in then sit and wait, that's the extent of it,

I suppose I have the luxury of enjoying just being on the bank, it's almost like catching a fish is a bonus, cool if I do and no worries if I dont, theres always next time,

If i was after the big fish or match fishing i would probably have to obsess lol,

I fish alone also so no friendly rivalry, if I had a regular fishing buddy theres no doubt I would try to gain advantages lol.

Hats off to all you monster anglers though, you have all caught more fish in 1 session than I probably have the time I've fished lol

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[S-Kippy]

Just a thought........I wonder sometimes what is really meant by a self hooking rig. A free running method feeder for example, is that a self hooking rig or an anti eject rig, or both ? Barbel have a habit of hooking themselves at times but isnt that really against the rod rather than the lead or feeder ?

The only 100% self hooking rig that I use ( imo anyway) is a heli rig with a heavy feeder and short hooklink. Plenty of other rigs I use may assist in self hooking but arent designed specifically to do that.

I cant comment on the more sophisticated carp rigs cos I dont use them but if youre going to cast in then go to bed I guess a rig with sh properties makes sense.