Threat to livebaiting

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Alan Roe

Guest
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Presently there is a very real threat that livebaiting is going to be banned in Scotland.
Whilst I don't live bait I do support the rights of others to do so and I belive that having this right removed is the start of a very slippery slope basically we have to ask what follows next Worms ? Maggots?.

Whilst some may feel the practise is outdated or barbaric there is in fact very little diiference between hooking a livebait and hooking any fish.

Whatever your views this plan represents yet another of the planks of angling being taken from under us.

Your Views are important please register them at the poll that can be found at http://www.pacgb.com

Remember it could be you next...
 
GrahamM

GrahamM

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Done that. Come on lads, cast your vote if you want to keep all the fences up. Like Alan says, it could be your favourite bait next - maggots maybe, or worms?
 
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Richard Drayson

Guest
Alan, Graham. Just been to the site and voted.
Currently the vote shows 92% in favour of retaining the right to livebait in Scotland.
 
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Steve Claxton

Guest
Over the years ive done a considerable amount of pike fishing...scotland included, always using deads never live bait, and caught fish!, this is just a personnel thing, but as this forum is for views i look at it like this...pike anglers can be sometimes stereotyped into thinking its live baits on this water or a blank..so it stands to reason deads arnt given a fair enough crack at on the water.
I would also say, fishing, to the majority of non-anglers, would not be seen as cruel, but what if they saw pictures / film of fish been hooked on trebles alive and "thrown" out to await been eaten...i reckon their views would change for the worst. In these days of the CAA campaigning, we need to be promoting our sport in the best possible ways, livebaiting...well mayby it should be banned. completely..its possible it could be our downfall one day, why not take it upon ourselves to make the first moves. Opinions ?
 
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Richard Drayson

Guest
We all know that statistics can be made to show anything in a good light and are open to manipulation but one thing puzzles me.
I`ve just returned to the PAC website to see how the vote was going and noticed that only a quarter of all votes cast are from PAC members themselves. The figures are:- Total votes=57 of which PAC members=15.
Any thoughts?
 
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Rob Brownfield

Guest
Alan...I dont think you have made the real reason behind the threat known in your comment. It really has very little to do with any "barbaric" practice etc.

The actual reason is because there is a real threat to the ecology of Scottish Lochs with the introduction of non native species!

If you take this into consideration, then I honestly think that the livebaiting issue takes on a whole new angle.

Loch Lomond is a prime example of this problem. For decades live fish have been introduced from as far away as Essex (I know this because a friend used to take Roach and Chub from the Lea all the way in the back of a van!). Over a period of time, these non native species have become established. Now, although it has not really been confirmed, the ecology of the Loch HAS changed. Ruffe are a serious threat to not only Trout and Salmon, but also Powan...a very rare fish only found in a few waters in the UK!

Now, I am a memebr of the Pike Anglers Alliance for Scotland (RO for Grampian region...get your membership here!!), and as such, I support all they do. There stand on this is that they are against a ban...but..they realise that this ecological threat exhists.

I ask all anglers out there...please do not bring livebaits to Scotland...u are seriously threatening our fishing! Pike are already loathed by some game anglers, please do not give them a reason to ban livebaitng and ultimatly Pike Fishing
 
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Ron Clay

Guest
Very well said Rob. I'm not anti livebaiting but I am against the transportation of livebaits to other waters.

That's how roach got to Ireland I beleive.
 
A

Alan Roe

Guest
Hello Rob I am aware of the transporting of livebaits issue and the ecological concerns that it is causing up there.
I also note that the scottish PAC are working towards that issue in a very positive manner and like yourself I would reiterate the need for anglers to stop transporting fish around the country for whatever purpose except under license form the EA.

My overriding concern on the livebait banning issue is the one I outlined above as what tends to happen is that what may be a viable local solution to an issue is then siezed upon by those who do not have our best interests at heart and the ban is then cascaded to other areas where there is not a problem.

I am entirely neutral in my views on live baiting it is not a practise that I personally use but that is not to say that I would not be prepared to use it if I felt it to be appropriate.
However my views on protecting the sport and the rights of others are indeed unbending and I view moves like the one in Scotland with alarm and I belive that it should be resisted as it is the start of a slippery slope.

As a game angler of many years standing I am well aware of the predjudices of some of my 'dyed in the wool'game angling bretheren. The best way to overcome their predjudices is to plug the individual rights issue most of the beggars up there tend to be so far to the political right that they make our Ron look like a closet commie!!
so they can be tied up around this issue.
cheers
Alan
 
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Rob Brownfield

Guest
Alan..some good points indeed. I must point out though that up here in Scotland we have a totally different outlook on the countryside etc.

We have far more hunting, shooting and game angling than in England, and as such, far less antis. I believe Scotland is very unique in this...and must be treated as a seperate entity.

The Scottish Livebait Ban does not mention cruelty or any such thing. It is purely because native species are at threat. I honestly believe that this makes it a totally different issue!!

I agree that its up to the individual...and I do livebait on occasions...although I have not for about 6 years..but if fish like the Powen or Charr are at risk...what should we do?

I do understand your concern about the slippery slope issue...but..cruelty is not at issue here.

Geeeez..i sound like a bloody politition...sorry
 
A

Andy Nellist

Guest
Ron , I understand that gentic testing has established that the Irish Roach population ostensibly stems from a single legal stocking in the 50's.

Whilst I am not against livebaiting the problem is not the method but the associated problem of fish movement. Sadly those who use livebaits cannot be trusted not to move fish fom water to water.

Most anglers are also unaware of the level of damage a species introduction can cause. The seemingly inocuous Ruffe can cause huge problems when introduced to waters because of its taste for caviar!

Personally I think we should bite the bullet now and ban fish movement. That is not allow bait fish to be kept in containers or buckets for any reason at any time.
 
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Ron Clay

Guest
Andy,

You are probabley right. But I do know of anglers in the 60s who took roach and dace to Ireland to use as livebaits.

I also know of anglers who have carted chub up to Lomond.

Livebaits hould be procured from the water you are fishing.

Actually I have not used live fish for bait for many years. There is always too much hassle in getting them and keeping them.
 
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