So many dropped runs

[Pete]

From the last three sessions I've had 7 dropped runs (& no fish). I've tried:

short hooklengths + bolt rig (tried 1 - 3 oz leads)
long hooklengths + bolt rig
freelining
running ledger

All of the runs scream off for about 2-6 feet then get dropped (or I get a big drop back). I've also tried heavy & light bobbins too but to no avail.

Hooklink wise I've tried:

Sufix Heavy Skin, stripped & un stripped in various combinations (last couple of inches etc etc etc) with Nash Fang 8's & ESP Raptors in a 6.

I'm hairing the bait (halibut pellets, maize, luncheon meat, pop-ups) between .5cm --> 3cm from the hook bend just using a standard knotless knot hair kind of thing.

The baliff at the water says the carp are very shy and this happens quite a bit.

Anyone got any tips for some new techniques I could try? All the baits seem to be producing but I can't hook up.

Cheers

Pete

 

[Jonny Northmore]

Fish the bait closer to the hook. The fish just be taking the bait and not actually taking it in to the hook. Then it realises its got a hook in it and spits it out. Putting the bait closer to the hook will give you more chance of the fish actually taking it in. You could also try anti eject rigs and see if they work.(don't know what they are like.

I fish with Boilies at bout 1cm above the hook. Works most of the time.

 

[Frothey]

how long was the long hooklink?
tried braid?

try a longshank hook with the bait near the eye, that'll normally tell you if the fish are mouthing the bait

 

[Pete]

The long hooklinks I've tried are between 8" & 14".

Braid wise what's a good one to try? The Sufix I'm using at the moment is braid once you've de-skinned it I guess.

I'll give the long shank hook a crack, any particular brand?

Cheers

 

[Jimboy]

i was having this prob and found D-rigs to be more effective than normal hair-rig.......

i use a hooklength of approx. 7in

 

[Frothey]

D rigs wont necessarily help if the fish are holding the bait in their lips as the hook wont be in their mouth.....

 

[Jonny Northmore]

Try putting a bit of broken boilie or whatever you use onto the hook. The fish may pick this up insted.

 

[Carpfish_2004]

Try putting a pop up on close to the hook,then scratch away some to the boilie gradually so it sinks. As the pop ups are lighter, as soon as the fish sucks it in it will go straight to the back of the mouth givin a greater hookin chance.

 

[Nick Austin 2]

I just changed my bottom rig to a slightly longer hair, and started experiencing similar problems. So i'm back to rigging my baits about 0.5cm from the hook bend. Back on the fish again, although this may just be applicable to my water.

 

[Big Rik]

sounds as though you are trying most things Pete and there's some sound options from the others.
A couple of questions for you.

How and what are you baiting with as loose feed if anything?

What kind of lake are we talking about (or river), weedy gravel pit, silty mere etc
how deep, any big drop offs or bars?

approx size of the carp?

any other species?

baitrunner, slackened clutch or open bail arm?

indicator weight?

maybe with a better understanding of the water and the fish in it then I may be able to offer some advice.

 

[Pete]

Hi Rik,
Here are my answers:

How and what are you baiting with as loose feed if anything?

a) Tried PVA Bags & Just loose feeding

What kind of lake are we talking about (or river), weedy gravel pit, silty mere etc
how deep, any big drop offs or bars?

a) V Small water (100m x 15m),it's a gravel bottom all over with just a light coating of silt in the margins. One small Island with a gravel bar running length wise down the lake. I tend to fish on the near bank marginal shelf (approx 3 feet deep) about 2 feet out. Deepest part is 10 feet (in the middle) with the far bank margin being 7 feet deep. Water is fairly coloured (you can see down about 18inches)

approx size of the carp?

a) From 15-30lb+

any other species?

a) Pretty much everything, high proportion of silvers.

baitrunner, slackened clutch or open bail arm?

a) bait runner set very slack (also tried feelining too)

indicator weight?

a) Varied between 1/2oz - 3oz

I've had another 3 sessions here since my last post and still no carp.....

Also, there's a boilie & nut ban so I've been using:

Pepperami, Artificial Pellets, Popups & Corn, Marine Halibut Pellets, Luncheon Meat (got munched by the silvers though)

My PVA bags / Loose feed have been:

Crushed Hemp, Trout Pellets (6mm), Marine Halibut Pellets (8mm + 14mm).

Hope this can shed some light on my dismal performance.

Cheers

Pete

 

[Stuart Bullard 3]

Pete - I am sure the big man can offer proper advice, but to me the bait sitting 3 - 5cm from the hook bend sounds far too long. I'm no expert, but I have always had it just off, not more that 1cm.

Surely the tell tale sign is having this happen on a bolt rig? If it was working effectively the hook would penetrate a bit wouldn't it?

If you a using, say a 20mm boilie (or what ever you are using, 20mm meat) that means the actual hair is 5 - 7cm long. Now I am looking at a ruler as I write, and there is no way I would ever contemplate a hair that long.

Some others have mentioned it above, so before getting overly technical I'd focus on one thing, and that would be reducing your hair!!

 

[Frothey]

as stu and others say, make the hair shorter. also use a tight baitrunner - it'll help the hook penetrate.

you tend to use longer hairs/light leads/no resistance in "confidence" set ups, but you have to be alert and fishing for bites, rather than fishing for runs.

try using 20+mm pellets - the heavier the bait, the harder it'll be for the fish to eject, also a nice alternative to boilies. if i was one to pull strokes (cough!) make up boilies, but chop the sausage instead of rolling them, to produce pepperami type sausages (14mm fits into a pepperami packet), or "fake" pellets...wont help you with dropped runs though.

 

[Frothey]

i should have phrased that "the bigger the mouthful" rather than "the bigger the bait"

 

[Big Rik]

I would go with everybody else on this and fish with the bait as tight to the shank as poss.
look at this one
Your bag mix sounds good, coupled with a 14 or 21mm pellet on the hair.
Fished with a semi fixed lead and feeding fish, then I can't see why you wont get any success.

Providing that the fish giving you the aborted runs are carp, then an exposed hook, with a bolt rig and a fairly tight baitrunner, SHOULD result in hooked fish.
Unless the fish are patrolling the near margin and giving you liners.......

 

[Sam]

Try different rigs and heavier leads. also tighten your baitrunner. Have your hangers heavier. Hope these can help.

 

[Pete]

Had a crack at Thorpe Lea yesterday to try out some new rigs & techniques (based on what you guys have suggested).

Hooked up 6 out of 7 runs so I'm confident that the rigs hook okay (BUT, I think anything would work at Thorpe to be honest).

Time to give them a crack on my local water now that I know they work in principle. I think the main change I have made is the addition of a bit of heatshrink to make a bit of a bent hook rig. All the fish were hooked in the bottom lip (is this typical of bent hook style rigs?).

Anyway thanks for the tips and I'll let you know if I can get a hook up on a proper water ;-)

Cheers

Pete

 

[Budgie Burgess]

Must agree that it sounds like too long a hair is the problem.

If not though are you getting any broken hairs on the strike? If so eels could be the culprit.They can give stonking runs on even heavy fixed lead rigs.As often the bait is in the mouth but not the hook a strike results in a missed run and broken hair.If in doubt try side hooking a boilie.