the Syndicate

[Big Rik]

Good stuff again you camo clad hunk.

Interesting questions, slack lines, bait durability, lead size, free offerings.
Questioning why you are doing something can only serve to improve your overall end game

 

[GrahamM]

Yes, interesting about the bait durabilty.

It doesn't seem that long ago when most carp anglers were boiling baits for several minutes to get them as hard as possible. I always wondered why, unless it was to deter nuisance species like bream, for a standard (at the time) 1.5 minute boil was enough to make the boilie last at least overnight.

I know that a lot depends on the ingredients used, but is there any point at all in using a boilie that dissolves in just a few hours?

The original 'design' of the boilie was to simply give the bait a hard skin, not to make it hard throughout, but at least it should be firm enough throughout to stay on the hook for several hours.

 

[Gary Knowles 2]

"nuisance species like bream"

How dare you sir - I prefer the term 'non-target species'

Where do washed out baits fit into all this then ?

 

[Big Rik]

a fine line between a durable bait and still requiring it to break down, else you're just left with stodge that nothing can eat.

 

[Little Stu!]

the best bait has got to be something that remain hard throughout but leaks off flavour throughout a 12 hour stint. I have no issues using a hard bait considering what carp do to swan mussels etc. Does one such bait exist?

 

[Big Malc]

Interesting stuff again Stu.

 

[Les Clark]

I had the same problem with a top bait from a local well known bait company ,a good boilie but could`nt keep it up over a 8 hour span ,changed to another of their baits ,just as good ,no problem .
Could it be in the makeup of some boilies , that they break up sooner ,or just a crap batch ?
I buy mine in 20killo lots and the first choice were all the same ,soft after about 6 hours .

 

[sash]

Stu,

As you know I had similar problems with the same bait and have improved the durability as follows:

a)Glug in the matching dip but allow to dry out a bit before using (slightly better) and b) glug in one of the off-the-shelf base glugs mixed with the boilie glug. The base glug contains hardener of some sort that does at least allow an overnight session without rebaiting (approx. 6.30pm to 7am). I have noticed where nuisance (?) fish are a problem that they will not last the distance, must be the constant nibbling.

 

[ByNasty]

Stu, have you mentioned your use of this bait before? I seem to recall a certain meaty flavoured boilie made by an explosive bait company. If this is the case I've just used some of these in the ready made form for the first time and I must say I was very surprised how soft they were (splitting when I put a baiting needle through them). Impressed with them in every respect other than that though. Interesting about the the lead coming off so you were effectively freelining, I have some vague memories of a debate on here a while back where someone was claiming that if a carp can move a lead without giving an indication. I think he was claiming that freelining could give just as good an indication. I think this article proves the contrary. Certainly makes me think more about my rig/lead selection.
Another cracking article Stu, and with this being my first season tackling proper carp (and tench and bream Gary, it's okay I've not completely lost the plot!)it's certainly making me open my mind and think about things slightly differently. Keep up the good work! Now all I have to do is catch something.....

 

[Little Stu!]

Good point Sash, my thoughts (when I wrote the article) led me to believe that the liquid/flavouring/glug that accompanied the 'explosive bait companies' bait was totally inadequateas It was this flavouring that softened the bait further instead of 'as you say' hardening the bait.

ByNasty, thanks for your comments and glad the brains ticking away for you.

I'd still like to find a robust shelflife that can hold its own, leak flavouring throughout and come in a good choice of flavours.

 

[sash]

It was the colour that initially attracted me (black, as there are millions of ducks etc on most of my local venues), plus the 10mm bait availability.

 

[Deecy]

"I'd still like to find a robust shelflife that can hold its own, leak flavouring throughout and come in a good choice of flavours"
Mistral,use them on the Thames.Rosehips are first choice but others have caught too.They suffer the attentions of small fish , Bream, Chub,heavy flows and still leak off after a night in the river.They don't dissolve either.

 

[ByNasty]

I didn't know chub would take rosehips. I have some of them at home along with some remedy. Might have to give them a whirl on the river! Funnily enough I've not caught much on rosehip. Scopex CSL was good though but it did seem to lose it's effectiveness through the season. Rock hard to.

 

[Gary Knowles 2]

A few intersting points Stu and if you don't mind I'll share a couple of experiences and see what you think.

A few years ago I got a change to fish a southern water that although predominantly known for it's carp held some exeptional bream which I was targetting. For hookbait bait I used 2 x 10mm frozen A8's as these were all the rage at the time and the bream had switched onto them pretty quickly. The first night I had a scraper double around midnight (4 hours after casting) the fish went through my other rod and I had to reposition both during the night. Just after first light I had another nice fiish this time over 11lb. The next night I put the baits in again at 8.00pm but, and heres where I could kick myself, the activity (liners) didn?t start until arounf 2.00am and continued through until around 6.00am. What really pi55ed me off is that when the liners had stopped (yeah, dumb I know) I wound in my rigs only to find two bare hooks. On a water containing what for me would have been PB's to think I had bream all over my rigs which had obviously been baitless throughout that time was bloody annoying - particulalry as 2 day sessions on good venues are a rarity for me.

My lesson learned was that when it was likely that my bait would stay in the water for long periods then I changed to a 'firmer' bait or air dried a few hookbaits. Eventually the air dried ones also went to mush but the whole re-hydration process seemed to slow down the breakdown time. Is there that you know of a better way of prolonging bait life or would you say it was easier to move to a tougher, quality shelf life ?

Setting the bobbins - I was interested in you saying that once you cast you leave everything to settle for a few minutes. I've never done this as I have found the undercurrent puts large bows in my line particilalry when fishing at distance. This may be eggagerated in my case as I probably use lighter line than you but it's still something that surprised me when I read it. Can you explain further your reasons for doing this, especially if you then tighten up later. Or do you not tighten up as such, using a light bobbing and allowing the curve in the line to be sufficient tension, leaving the line on the bottom.

Particles - You said there was no particles allowed but you used both maggots and hemp (and pellets) does the syndicate have a definition of particles ? (this is a serious not flippant question)

Enjoyable articles by the way, keep 'em coming.

Cheers

Gary

 

[Little Stu!]

Gary

"Is there that you know of a better way of prolonging bait life or would you say it was easier to move to a tougher, quality shelf life ?"

My thoughts-
I think the best way of prolonging a hookbait is to glug in thick flavoured oil and not the thin crap that sometimes accompanies baits. I think the real trick though is to glug for about 3 days prior to your trip with the view of minimising the time in which the bait can begin breakdown etc. I would carry these thoughts across both shelflife and frozen. I would never use an air dried boilie as a hookbait though if they?d been dried for some time due to the speedy re-hydrating time once absorbed back in the water. I would use a tougher bait on venues where smaller fish and bream etc are in abundance.


"Particles - You said there was no particles allowed but you used both maggots and hemp (and pellets) does the syndicate have a definition of particles?"

My Thoughts-
I know the term particles means different things to different people, but for me I mean a ban on anything above sweetcorn i.e. no tigers, nuts, maize etc.


"Can you explain further your reasons for doing this, especially if you then tighten up later. Or do you not tighten up as such, using a light bobbing and allowing the curve in the line to be sufficient tension, leaving the line on the bottom."

My Thoughts-
I sink the line thoroughly as described in the article as I believe a slack line will give far better indication than a tight line. I have no issues in leaving a curvature line on the bottom at all as again it follows my theory on slack lines in that the bow in a slack line (whether laying on the bottom or from the rod tip to the bottom) will still give me a faster more accurate indication. Also this method avoids spooking travelling or curious fish. I can?t think of anything worse than a water full of direct hard and fast lines standing out like a sore thumb all the way to the lead. Also, I use light bobbins that sit barely on the ground.

 

[ByNasty]

Stu, you said

"Also, I use light bobbins that sit barely on the ground."

This is probably me being dense and missing the point somewhere but how do you tell if you get a drop back? I understand the theory of fishing a long drop and light bobbins with running rigs but I'm not sure how it ties in when fishing semi fixed. I'm sure there's a valid reason but I can't see it at the moment. Can you explain the theory please?

 

[Little Stu!]

I never saw that question coming, honest gov!!!!!

imagine my bobins being 2-3 inches in size with the bottom of the bobin resting on the deck.

The line angle between the clip of the bottom, the reel and the eye-ring gives me more than enough indication for drop-backs if that makes sense?

Also, juts to add intrigue, I make my own bobins.

 

[Little Stu!]

sorry meant "clip of the bobbin" not bottom

 

[Gary Knowles 2]

Stu

I glug my boilies when barbel fishing, not just for days but for weeks, keeping about a couple of dozen in the pot at any one time. However, this seems to make the baits softer, not tougher and the glug (I assume) is a quality one (Nashbait) and very thick and glutinous. Although I have never left one of these baits out for any length of time I assumed that they would disintegrate quite quickly - have I got this wrong, again !

I can see what your getting at with the tight lines/slack lines debate and agree with what your saying. As long as the indicator will move before the mono (if your using it) stretches then that should be fine. On a smallish water like 'the syndicate' this may be fine but I would be concerned about snagging in underwater obstructions (gravel pits) and the huge bow in the line which could occur on waters measuring in hundreds of acres.

 

[Little Stu!]

my point with the glugs (the thinner ones) is that the longer you glug them, the more they turn into mush, the thicker the glug seems to be better on slowing the breakdown.

you're right