Best Boilies Of All Time

[stu_the_blank]

the only danger is if they are not prepared correctly.

Has that been proven wanderer? Like you, I'm old enough to remember when they were widely used and as you say, they were very effective in getting runs. However, there were without doubt health problems attributed to them on waters where they were heavily used. I would be very cautious about allowing them on my water. (they are the only bait unconditionally banned). I'll ask Bruno about his 'test'.

It's a bit disingenuous to attibute the same properties to all boiled baits, obviously it depends what's in them! They are made to a price and if you work out the finances there can't be more than £3 worth of content in a bag that costs £10. The ones I use cost me £9 a kilo in ingredients alone. If they were marketed they would cost approx £25 a kilo.

Laguna, to save me a hour or two on the internet (I'm very slow) do peanuts contain Rotenone? Or have I misundersood.

Stu

 

[thecrow]

I remember the times when peanuts (they are not really a nut) were widely used on a lot of waters, on one water I fished regularly the fish condition went downhill until they were banned by the syndicate committee, the fish condition then gradually recovered to pre peanut condition.

It hardly surprising that the condition of the fish went downhill when you think that the fat content of peanuts is 25% while the protein content is just 7% and I doubt that much of that protein was available to the fish through digestion. I can think of no natural food that the Carp might eat which will have such a high fat content if any at all, perhaps Swan Mussels might have some?

For me its not about using a bait that will catch me more fish its about not using one that I know will catch fish but at the same time will do them harm because of what's in that bait, The pellets I now use for Barbel fishing are low oil pellets designed for cyprinids not the high oil stuff that was designed for things with an adipose fin.

If I may I will ask just one question and that is, if peanuts are any good for fish and keeping them in good condition why are they not used by the fish farming industry in place of more expensive pellets? they are much cheaper and cheaper means more profit.

---------- Post added at 10:03 ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 ----------

convenience baits,

I sometimes use a very old and established convenience bait that has caught most fish that swim in our waters they are called Maggots.

 

[Nobby C (ACA)]

How Much Protein Do Roasted Peanuts Have? | Healthy Eating | SF Gate 7% protein, 14% fat but the 'good' fat apparently.

Peanuts

Albeit these are human consumption studies. Doubtless fish get preoccupied on them but will a wild creature continue eating an alien food until it dies? That's almost an addiction isn't it?

I guess pellets, having been specifically formulated as fish food contain a better combination of ingredients, that's probably why, that and they facilitate maximum growth per serving/fish. It is a commercial enterprise after all.
Peanuts are a great bait, but they do blow within a season or two whereas boilies don't so far as I can tell.
I can find no evidence of Rotenone in peanuts, albeit I haven't dug too deeply into the matter. I thought the big bogeyman in peanuts was Aflatoxin, do we have a new menace to worry about?

 

[thecrow]

Seems even the scientists can't agree on the contents of peanuts, you are correct about aflatoxin though, do any anglers check how old the peanuts they use are and in what conditions they have been stored? I would think that its impossible to know considering the retailer is not the only one to have stored them.




Calories - 190


Calories from fat - 140


Total fat - 16.0 g - 25%


•Saturated fat - 3.0 g - 15%


•Trans Fat - 0 g


Cholesterol - 0 mg - 0%


Sodium - 150 mg - 6%


Total Carbohydrates - 7.0 g - 2%


•Dietary Fiber - 2.0 g - 8%


•Sugars - 3.0 g


Protein - 7.0 g - 7%


Iron - 4%


Vitamin E - 10%


Niacin - 20%

 

[wanderer]

Me thinks the inclusion of the pesticide was a dig about the bait being unsuitable for fishing, and it was naughty, peanuts, like tigers are a fantastic bait, they are not addictive but the carp get preoccupied with them simply because they like the taste, the nutritional value is low, so health can suffer if over used, no proof, just the opposite. Bruno Broughtons tests were front page A.T., no doubts about those, the death of the boilie fed carp was attributed at a later date to the preservative in the shelf lifes, as a bait on a level playing field no boilie stands a chance against peanuts. Don't you find it strange that the demonization of the peanut started when boilies became a lucrative little business.

 

[thecrow]

Don't you find it strange that the demonization of the peanut started when boilies became a lucrative little business

No I think there use waned when anglers realised what damage could be done by peanuts.

 

[wanderer]

I don't think so my friend, still used with deadly effect and no bans at Redmire, the holy grail, believe what the boilie manufacturers tell you and pay a fortune for an inferior bait.

 

[thecrow]

I know what goes into my bait and what it costs, I am afraid that Redmire is a shadow of its former self as are the fish in it, a historic water I grant you but that's all it is now.

 

[stu_the_blank]

No I think there use waned when anglers realised what damage could be done by peanuts.

And they were widely banned (and still are) because of the damage. As a Syndicate we have no financial interest in Boily production but we have a real interest in the health of our fish.

Stu

---------- Post added at 21:48 ---------- Previous post was at 21:40 ----------

still used with deadly effect

Unfortunate choice of words

 

[laguna]

Laguna, to save me a hour or two on the internet (I'm very slow) do peanuts contain Rotenone? Or have I misundersood.

Yes Stu, Rotenone is used as a pesticide/insecticide but is also naturally present in peanuts. Its a truly effective, non-selective, deadly piscicide - fish killer. It also kills wild birds. To my knowledge there hasn't so far been any proven mass fish kill attributed directly to Rotenone in any UK water (thanks to those bans) but that's not to say it hasn't happened, its potential as a fish killer is just too great for it not to have happened. Personally I would ban them outright.

If I may I will ask just one question and that is, if peanuts are any good for fish and keeping them in good condition why are they not used by the fish farming industry in place of more expensive pellets? they are much cheaper and cheaper means more profit.

Good question. Because they are harmful in the extreme is the short answer Crow. It works by interfering with the fishes cellular respiration and no amount of careful preparation of particles affected will make them safe, fish are very susceptible to it. Rotenone is routinely sprayed on crops as a pesticide/insecticide and is taken up in the roots and tubers BUT the main danger comes from the naturally present mould that grows on (and penetrates into) peanuts in the soil. The mould itself is responsible for producing the toxin - both before and after harvest. Poor storage, distribution and handling is a major contributing factor, especially sun-dried groundnuts of the Americas. All peanuts contain it albeit in varying amounts, it might well be cheap but is totally unsuitable as a feed ingredient, more suited as a fish killer.

Digs and such aspersions wanderer? my comment was a cautionary note of the dangers of using peanuts because of Rotenone. They might catch fish but they are far from being the 'best' bait bar none - they are potentially very harmful, more dangerous than anything else I know!
For the record, I have no interest in either frozen or shelf-life baits and boilies made in the 'traditional' way or indeed any artificially preserved baits or additives. We're much too anal to be worried about that sort of thing. But agree, always have, those grievances of yours are probably justly founded, its my opinion the angler has far better and cheaper bait choices than some, touted by (some) other commercial entities... just not peanuts, its just not cricket.

 

[wanderer]

The presence of toxic compounds can be found in most foods, Bananas contain Potassium, which is used to execute people in the U.S , many myths about the daily consumption required to kill you, Radio active compounds present in Brazil nuts, on the basis of what you are saying, I would tend to ignore trace elements, Afflotoxin, food grade nuts from health food outlets are guaranteed tested and free of it, also peanuts are natural inclusion in the diet of most vegetarians, where is my snickers bar, never sell poison to the public. You make a good case, but I don't agree with you.

 

[stu_the_blank]

Excellent response Laguna (Chris) you've articulated my fears. Our peanut ban will stay.

They might be an effective bait but I believed and still do that it's irresponsible in the extreme to use and recomend them.

Stu

 

[wanderer]

Lots of waters have boilie bans, some have particle bans, some ban meat, the choice is yours but don't demonize a bait thats been used for decades.

 

[thecrow]

Is it worth taking any chances at all with fish stocks simply to carry on using a bait that although it catches fish contains something that can do this?

This is what you posted on another thread called Destiny


Not always, Sam and my flying friend, one has to consider the health and well being of the species, they are not just a commodity, they are living creatures

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-zmvQjHWBo

 

[stu_the_blank]

Lots of waters have boilie bans, some have particle bans, some ban meat, the choice is yours but don't demonize a bait thats been used for decades.

You're dead right, it is my choice and there are all sorts of reasons to ban various baits or styles of angling, methods etc. Some are a response to problems that have occured, some are prejudice but the one reason that can't be rationally argued against is fish welfare.

The problem with peanuts is simple, a handful of fresh human grade nuts now and again won't cause a problem I'm sure. BUT, as a fishery owner/manager you can have no idea whether the peanuts are from a very expensive healthfood shop and bought recently or from a sack of cheap peanuts that's been sitting in a damp shed for 6 months. I would suggest that most will come from the second catagory, purely on the basis of cost. Anglers will cling on to any excuse (and come on, Snickers?). Result, sick fish.

Sorry Wanderer, my position is very clear I hope, I'm not demonising anything, I'm simply protecting my fish.

Stu

 

[wanderer]

View respected Stu, I really don't know if that's the right decision but I take the point about the cheapskates, good luck to yer mate, the point of my posts is to promote debate and interest not controversy and I respect the views of all contributors, Laguna puts good points as do you.

 

[laguna]

Potassium cyanide and potassium citrate (the active component in banana) are two very different things. One is clearly a poison and the other is an ESSENTIAL (required) mineral - an important electrolyte.

Lots of different potassium products. Potassium sorbate for example, used in very small quantities typically 0.1% or 1g per kg to prolong shelf life. There are no known abnormal effects on human health at recommended levels, however there is little regulation when it comes to joe and paddy rolling bait from a back bedroom.

As for the 'radioactive' quote potassium in banana.. its true but not quite as you imply. Granted, some will accumulate in the body as does all things animals are exposed to in their environment over its life time, but potassium is an essential trace element, essential to life as is vitamin D gained from exposure sunlight.
The mineral alerts fish to its presence (a very good inclusion in bait, more electro-positive than sodium (salt) which is a good thing) but assuredly; no fish would ever consume several tons of bananas and glow in the dark like an isotope.

Rotenone. Even if peanuts are screened to a safe level for humans, its rarely fatal as it induces vomiting. Fish are different.

I can only repeat; "fish and many aquatics are extremely susceptible to Rotenone poisoning from peanuts"!

 

[Nobby C (ACA)]

Would you or somebody kindly point me to some papers that indicate the natural presence of Rotenone in peanuts as my phone search isn't helping much.

 

[wanderer]

I must admit, I am also not aware of this particular compound, I am aware of an enzyme inhibitor present in the raw product that prevent absorbtion of certain vitamins, it is destroyed by boiling, if its good enough for Redmire , then its good enough for me.

---------- Post added at 23:47 ---------- Previous post was at 23:16 ----------

Potassium cyanide and potassium citrate (the active component in banana) are two very different things. One is clearly a poison and the other is an ESSENTIAL (required) mineral - an important electrolyte.

Lots of different potassium products. Potassium sorbate for example, used in very small quantities typically 0.1% or 1g per kg to prolong shelf life. There are no known abnormal effects on human health at recommended levels, however there is little regulation when it comes to joe and paddy rolling bait from a back bedroom.

As for the 'radioactive' quote potassium in banana.. its true but not quite as you imply. Granted, some will accumulate in the body as does all things animals are exposed to in their environment over its life time, but potassium is an essential trace element, essential to life as is vitamin D gained from exposure sunlight.
The mineral alerts fish to its presence (a very good inclusion in bait, more electro-positive than sodium (salt) which is a good thing) but assuredly; no fish would ever consume several tons of bananas and glow in the dark like an isotope.

Rotenone. Even if peanuts are screened to a safe level for humans, its rarely fatal as it induces vomiting. Fish are different.

I can only repeat; "fish and many aquatics are extremely susceptible to Rotenone poisoning from peanuts"!

Apparently it is Potassium Chloride that is used in lethal injections, and a quantity of bananas although massive would prove fatal, the radio active properties are more readily attributed to the Brazil nut, also a top bait, I might add, you seem convinced about this pesticide, are you sure its present in peanuts, zilch on the net.

 

[thecrave]

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