Surface fishing for carp

[keora]

I went carp fishing a few days ago in a well stocked commercial lake. There were plenty of carp visible in the swim. Despite using various rigs - hair rigs, side hooking, pellet bands, I only had one small carp, a bream, and surprisingly, some roach, the biggest was weighed at 1lb 2oz.

I used Sono oily floater pellets, with a soft biscuit texture, about 12 mm. I was casting about 10 yds out and carp would occasionally leave the reed beds on each side of the swim, drift slowly up to the bait and then reject it. I changed down from 10lb line to 8lb line, but it didn't seem to make any difference. It was useless to try floating bread, as small fish would tear it into shreds within a few minutes of it landing on the surface.

Has anyone any suggestions on what to do the next time I go there?

 

[103841]

I’ve had a situation where the carp wouldn’t touch an oily floater but would take a mixer.......take a selection.

 

[barbelboi]

I find that it's not so much the bait ( the only way a fish can determine if something is edible is to put it in it's mouth - I tend to use artificial baits mainly) as the presentation. If your hook length doesn't float then the fish will see it and may well spook - also the length between your controller and hook/bait needs to generally be a reasonable length with your hook bait acting as naturally as possible on the surface.

PS I don't fish commercials so am not aware of how the fish act in that environment.

 

[David Rogers 3]

I've had experience of a water where carp wouldn't look at a bottom bait and would only take floaters - any floaters - for a couple of years, and then the situation reversed entirely and they became uncatchable on floaters. If they've fallen too often for floaters, it may be a better idea to try something different - a slow-sinking bait, maybe?

 

[john step]

As above David is right about trying a slow sinking bait. Try getting them taking bread then lob out a large lump of freelined bread flake on a size 6 hook. Dunk the bait and give it a gentle squeeze to make it slowly sink.

You will get through a lot of bread if the tiddlers are active but sooner or later a carp will get there first. Anyway a couple of cheap loaves only cost a quid.

Or... get a packet of ENTERPRISE BAITS artificial dog mixers. Use a smaller hook(10?). They have a small hole for a split shot that makes them sit upright in the water with the hook on top out of view..hopefully.

Or... this one is a bit crude but it works....buy a couple of baguettes and leave them to go stale for a day or two. Cut a 3 inch length off. Push a baiting needle through and out of the crust. Pull a size 6 through the section of baguette and a further 9 inches or so of your line.
Now wrap this line around the crust until you get to the hook and then embed this firmly in the crust...hiding it.

Get them going on free offerings then cease putting any more in. Instead lob the crusty bit of baguette in again freelined. They will peck at it getting more frustrated because its a hard bait. They will compete for it. As it softens and they attack it, one will draw the short straw and take the hook. Almost akin to cheating!

 

[keora]

Thank you for all the ideas.

I tried squeezing a big piece of flake around the hook and letting it slowly sink. The small fished ate it up quicker than when I used floating crust, so I abandoned that idea. I'll have to try it again.

I'm not sure if artificial baits are allowed on the water.

Barbelboi, you wrote that "If your hook length doesn't float then the fish will see it and may well spook". I do a lot of trout fishing and there the accepted method when using a dry fly is that the last few feet of the leader is rubbed with a sinkant. I use Fuller's earth mixed with Fairy Liquid. This is so the line sinks and is less visible to the trout.

 

[markcw]

John I was going to suggest something similar that works, push hook through crust and turn it 90 degrees as normal,
then roll a cigar shaped length of bread on the line and cast out, the fish go for the cigar shaped piece causing bits to
release and there is always the greedy one who will go for the hookbait, This method uses more bread than yours with the bread on the line being softer,I think your way is a better way of doing it, am going to give it a try next time I am on a club water where I know floating bread works. Thanks for the variation on the method I normally use if hard going. :thumb:

 

[barbelboi]

This is so the line sinks and is less visible to the trout.

It's the bow in the line (if not floating) between the surface bait and the controller that tends to spook the fish.................

 

[john step]

Here is something that sounds very silly but works.

This is for where there is a sparse amount of weed breaking the surface or where there is debris and leaves floating.
Tie a foot length of green garden twine( the cheap hairy stuff) from just behind the hook to about a foot up the line. Use just a simple knot and leave the tab.
You now have a hooklength that is highly visible but looks just like the bits of weed its floating amongst.

We have all seen the carp mouthing bits of debris and even the controller float. The string wont put them off.

 

[103841]

Intriguing John. I shall pop into my local garden centre and ask the breaking strain of their garden twine.

 

[john step]

Intriguing John. I shall pop into my local garden centre and ask the breaking strain of their garden twine.

HA HA!! I thought.......... then I thought that I hope someone does think the green twine is a hooklength....its tied to and along the hooklength....just saying........mg:

 

[Tee-Cee]

I fish for surface carp using the three conventional methods...

Floating crust (and this for any carp over 6/8lbs) cut in 50mm (2") squares by at least 10/15mm thiick. Using a No 6 or even a 4 hook I push the hook through one edge, bring the hook under the crust and hook in into the opposite edge. In open swims I use 6lb line treated with Mucilin floatant . The important thing is you either have to cast to fish you can see OR use something that will bring them to the surface. In my case I use Pedigree Chum Mixer softened in a little water over night.
Personally, I try to get some height above the water and look for cruising fish before catapulting out a few mixers over them. Once I see interest I underarm swing the crust out as gently as possible and send out a few more mixers.

What I don't do is just cast lumps of crust out hoping for the best, particularly if the water has lots of small piranha type fish that mess with the crust.. In cases where small fish exist I have noticed on many occasions that once a carp approaches the crust the small fish scarper!! Small fish would not stop me using crust and if you only cast it out when it is LIKELY to be taken by carp I suggest it will catch you fish!! (imho!!)

The other non (crust) method I use (nothing new about it!) is a suitable controller float that will get your bait where you want in without anything more than an underarm cast. Again, I use a 10 hook for one Chum Mixer and an 8 for two Chum Mixers with no more than 3' between hook and controller. The 6lb line is ALWAYS treated with a floatant particularly next to the bait!!

I am aware this is not the case with fly fishing, but we are NOT fly fishing!!

This method works well when the bait is cast in among loose Mixers, but again I really think it is important to cast to, or fairly close to carp that you can see, on, or just below the surface.

Both methods work best when it is quiet and long casting unnecessary, with fish possibly in the margins. I have caught good carp 2' from the bank on the lumps of crust - equally I have caught 4lb fish on crust of the same size!!

Finally, I also catch good carp (same crust size) on anchored crust. I hair rig the crust, and using a 3/4oz bomb cast out close to bushes or similar. The whole lot sinks but once you release the line the crust will float to the surface and you tighten to it. Either that or wind the crust down so it is some inches BELOW the surface and just wait for the carp to find it!!
If small fish are a problem then scatter a few mixers of bits of smaller crust to occupy them.......

ALL of the above have caught fish on many different waters and none of the methods described are new in any way, shape or form, but they are proven to work with a bit of care and effort!!!

The 'secret' to my mind is finding your fish in the first place, rather than just aimlessly casting and hoping it will all work out.....................

Exciting fishing, though!

Good luck!

ps Best bread by far is a Tin Loaf from Waitrose which has good crust on all sides. Cut the crust off in 'sheets' about 15mm think and this can be then cut to suit. It also freezes well...(Asda Tin loaf is okay but crust not as 'crusty'

 

[103841]

I just need to find some avian free waters!

 

[thecrow]

I just need to find some avian free waters!

Or buy a bottle of night nurse :wh

 

[barbelboi]

I just need to find some avian free waters!

Or colour your bread green with a food colouring, the fish don't mind - and as long as the feathered ones don't see you cast it they tend to ignore it...............

 

[103841]

Or colour your bread green with a food colouring, the fish don't mind - and as long as the feathered ones don't see you cast it they tend to ignore it...............

Hadn’t thought of that, cunning!

I was attempting to float some mixers on the huge Stonar lake recently, I was almost impressed with the amazing eyesight of the dive bombing gulls.

 

[john step]

Or colour your bread green with a food colouring, the fish don't mind - and as long as the feathered ones don't see you cast it they tend to ignore it...............

Thats a great idea that I hadn't heard of before.

If its not going too far off thread I am continually amazed at the ability of birds, particularly coots, to find boilies even at depth. On a trip away recently I watched a coot swim over my baited area of about 10 feet deep and stop dead. It had not watched the bait going in as it was some time after.
It appeared to be circling about a bit until it located the exact whereabouts of my bait then down it went. If they can detect bait from above the surface it must be scent. Fish are supposed to have phenomenal power of smell /scent so they must be able to follow the trail in a similar way, as we know from experience in angling.
Which brings me to wonder perhaps if we over flavour our baits. Maybe some of those blanks are not because the fish are no eating. Just not eating our over flavoured bait?

 

[rich66]

Which brings me to wonder perhaps if we over flavour our baits. Maybe some of those blanks are not because the fish are no eating. Just not eating our over flavoured bait?

I quite often wonder if over flavouring or artificial flavours are as off putting to them as over flavoured food is to us.

 

[thecrow]

Which brings me to wonder perhaps if we over flavour our baits. Maybe some of those blanks are not because the fish are no eating. Just not eating our over flavoured bait?

I believe Fred Wilton said if you could smell an ingredient in a bait there was to much in it, something like that anyway.

 

[markcw]

Anyone tried dobbing bread using a pole ? or freelining bread using a pole, ?
its brilliant, lowering bread so it just rests on the surface of the water in front of cruising fish.
also ideal for getting near to overhanging vegetation or branches, the only limitation is distance.