How many lbs of fish do Cormorants need to eat per day to survive?

[flightliner]

...so where do I stand with the bl**dy grey squirrels eating the peanuts in my garden feeders....do I,(a)buy a gun(b)stop feeding the birds(c)learn to love them...?

I fancy a gun but I'm not a very good shot and the neighbours would probably report me .......

No,its not Cormarants or Otters but still a major problem-ask anyone who tries growing veg!!

Tee Cee, buy an air-rifle, the grey is classed as vermin and as long as you are shooting fifty foot from the centre of the nearest road and you have a suitable "backstop" those next door can ring who they like-- just tell them to ring for the police if they want to--My sister was a bit of a tree hugger then one day she had greys in her roofspace causing all manner of damage, after they were shot she is now learning that some things just have to be controlled, My next door nieghbours allways had two cats and beside my garden being a toilet it was also a no go area for birds. Since they have died (thank goodness) both our gardens are a songbird heaven and we are inundated with blackbirds. Regarding comorants- these vile birds create a similar situation underwater but fish cant generally be observed as easy as something furry and cuddly so the public dont care .
If anyone would like to see how much a comorant can consume in one go just google u-tube -- comorants--- and you will see one on a path that picks up a whole carp that must be at least five lbs and it just swallows it whole with no trouble!!
My club have a liscense to shoot them but they are really difficult , they seem to have the ability to swim like a submarine with only its head and neck visible. One other measure that does seem to cut down the number of visits however is to stake hi viz nylon rope across a stillwater a foot above the surface-- it gives the impression that your lake is going to be used for olympic swimming but it makes landing and take off more difficult and it does seem to work somewhat. But at the end of the day there's "nowt" like some lead between the ears!!!!

 

[Cakey]

well I eat chickens ,beef and lamb etc to survive so I have no quarms about other animals and birds surviving and after all its us humans that have made it worse for them to do so................

 

[S-Kippy]

I think they'll just move on when it's empty Skippy?

But where to ? If everywhere is suffering to the same degree then eventually there wont be enough to support the numbers surely ? Maybe they'll ****** off back to the sea where they belong...except its empty.

What with signals,cormorant,merganser and otter what chance does a river have to recover ?

We need Deanos to launch a new range of Vermin & Kidney Pies.

 

[coelacanth]

...so where do I stand with the bl**dy grey squirrels eating the peanuts in my garden feeders....do I,(a)buy a gun(b)stop feeding the birds(c)learn to love them...?

Sprinkle chilli powder on your nuts, worked for me...

Apparently birds don't have capsaicin receptors so it doesn't bother them, but the moment when a squirrel realises it's gone to peanut hell is worth seeing. Buy a decent-sized bag from an Asian supermarket, cheaper that way.

 

[Graham Whatmore]

It may need a licence to shoot them but does it need a licence to destroy their nests? I know of at least two fisheries where any cormorant daring to venture near their waters is the unfortunate victim of accidental shooting, they have become such good shots they could probably represent England in the olympics.

It matters not how much they eat (but as a species it is considerable) it is the fact that they are decimating our fish population. Yes it may be because there is less food available in the sea but that doesn't mean we should sit back and accept that they will decimate our coarse fish population as well surely? Control is what is needed and if shooting is the only practical solution then so be it. Badgers are to be culled in many parts of the country by order of the government because they arguably infect cattle with TB so why is it ok to depopulate the badger and not the cormorant?

 

[Cakey]

I hate the word cull,always reminds me of the poor baby seals and after all we do mean kill.
I agree something needs to be done but animals and birds that have an established life and could have young somewhere seems wicked to me .
more research should be done into sterilising adults somehow seems the way forward to me .
wonder what would happen to me if I decided there was to many humans of one particular race and they were nicking my work thereby nicking the food out of my mouth so I decide to "cull" them
I suppose there should be a line somewhere but where does one draw it ?

 

[Dave Burr]

Come on Cakey, this is completely different. I respect your view and I am also of the opinion that as 'we' humans have deprived them of their natural sea food supply, then we are being doubly cruel by wanted them all shot.

However, the old saying 'two wrongs don't make a right' applies. We have decimated the seas but to now allow cormorants and any other species to decimate the inland waters is at the very least negligent.

Also, the sea due to its size, has a way of recovering whereas some of our smaller waters can be emptied to a point where they would take years to repopulate, if ever.

I know the Somerset levels well and, due to its proximity to the sea, there have always been a few cormorants hunting there but the numbers described by Steve are alarming. The Drains are stuffed with fish and could sustain lots of predation, the pike population demonstrates this. But how long can the area go without some control over this number of cormorants? It will create a massive imbalance over an area of natural diversity and bounty.

Man caused the problem so he'd better go about trying to fix it...... and soon.

As for shooting squirrels Tee Cee, use a hollow point pellet and if you can, go for head shots. Squirrels are tough little so and so's and rarely go down easily. If this makes you squeamish then ether trap 'em and dispatch them humanely or put an add in your local paper for someone to come and pull the trigger, there are lots of keen hunters out there. But if someone turns up with a sawn off shotgun or a Gloc 9mm he's probably misread your ad

 

[Cakey]

like I said before perhaps we should "cull" anglers then less fish are needed to keep the rest happy :wh

 

[Steve Spiller]

Very good post Dave B.

like I said before perhaps we should "cull" anglers then less fish are needed to keep the rest happy :wh

That's part of the problem already Cakey. Anglers have deserted the rivers, so an angler cull has already happened. Lakes and ponds are usually quite busy and bailiffed regulary, if a cormoroant problem occurs it gets dealt with. The Somerset levels are baron and you wouldn't find a quieter place for the cormorants to stuff themselves stupid. This applies to many rivers all over the UK.

Nobody is controlling/culling/killing the cormorants and nobody is studying the numbers of comorants that have now moved inland. As Dave said, if they are left to carry on with it they will decimate the inland coarse stocks. Good news I suppose if you are a specimen angler catching the fish that are too big for the cormorants, but when the big uns go belly up there won't be any tiddlers coming through to replace them...

 

[geoffmaynard]

How much fish does an otter need per day to survive (roughly)??(Just out of interest as we have lots now!)

But that's not the correct question to ask. If they only killed enough to eat they wouldn't be a problem - it's the killing they do purely for the exercise of it (like a cat with birds/mice)

---------- Post added at 11:09 ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 ----------

Sprinkle chilli powder on your nuts, worked for me...

Ah... So that's why you are always so bad tempered...

 

[Cakey]

Steve the comerants will die of starvation when the stocks of fish get to a certain level then the fish start to increase in numbers its the balance of nature .............................

 

[geoffmaynard]

Just as they have in the North Sea. Or on the Grand Banks. Yeah, right. In about 500 years...
:wh

 

[Cakey]

but its been said they need at least a pound of fish a day so how could they go 500 years or are the fish stocks higher than we are told ?

 

[Paul H]

500 years to recover the stocks I think.

When people talk about 'the balance of nature', it does exist but it can take periods of time that span hundreds or thousands of years.

 

[geoffmaynard]

If this 'balance of nature' existed as anything other than received wisdom, i.e. a myth, there would be sturgeon and salmon and trout in the Thames and Herring and Tunny in the North Sea, cod by the zillion on the Grand Banks and huge Tuna runs in the Med etc etc. All these fish existed in abundance in these places for thousands (millions?) of years until a predator wiped them out. They will never return. The Balance of Nature is a myth - when they are gone they are gone.

 

[Tee-Cee]

Geoff......sorry,but it is the right question for me to ask....I only want to know how much fish they NEED to survive.......I take your point that they will and do kill fish purely for the fun of it(and sometimes come back to eat the kill later)but that is an additional question which(I doubt)nobody can answer..

....having read the above I doubt anyone can really answer the first part but I do know they are kept in captivity(somewhere in the south west?)on asort of animal farm so perhaps someone has a vague idea...

In essence I'm trying to imagine if otters are the cormorant problem of the future as I understand they have been released around the country??

 

[Paul H]

The Balance of Nature is a myth - when they are gone they are gone.

I think nature will find a balance, given reasonable parameters.

Also, f stocks of fish are totally decimated then no, it unlikely they will recover. But the birds and other predators will also then die off - a balance of sorts - none of anything.

 

[Steve Spiller]

Tee-Cee it's a tough question that probably no one knows the answer too? Because otters eat all sorts...

They might be able to monitor how much they eat in captivity while they are being reared for release, but how much will they eat when let loose?

If I'm honest, I think cormorants pose a far worse threat than otters at the moment. If everyone saw the cormorants coming home to roost for the night you would all know how I feel.

25+ hungry cormorants feeding 365 a year, plus their off spring! And that was just one of hundreds of pylons to roost on!

 

[cg74]

The Balance of Nature is a myth - when they are gone they are gone.

In your opinion, where as mine differs; a balance of nature does not mean things will return to its state before any said event that has changed the balance.
It means that over predation as a prime example, leads to a shortage of prey, this results in the predator either moving on or dying, simple!

The thing is Geoff you like many other anglers seem hell bent on complaining to other anglers rather than to the people who count, EA, NE, DEFRA to name but a few bodies.
I mean in all honesty even if your local EA fishery officer does know the issues that face your local water, he ain't going to act unless pushed.
If no one tells anyone in a position that can influence change of Cormorant or otter predation issues, absolutely no point any one complaining about species being protected by law, is there?

Rightly or wrongly that is the way it is!

You asked earlier about the definition of an alien species. To simplify, IMO if ANY species is moved by man to a new area it is always to be deemed as a 'alien species' to that environment; carp, catfish, zander, mink, grey squirrels, signal crayfish even barbel in rivers such as the Severn.
Basically they've all upset the 'natural balance' and no I'm not going to mention immigration of humans:wh.

 

[Steve Spiller]

cg, can I ask if you are connected to one of the 'bodies'?

It means that over predation as a prime example, leads to a shortage of prey, this results in the predator either moving on or dying, simple!

This is what it's all about cg, when the prey are gone, they are gone.....

I've recently had dealings with the E.A hotline and to be honest I have no faith in them what so ever. I sent pics and was told I would be contacted, nothing!!! No email reply and no phone call

So what's the point? Underfunded and it's gonna get worse and what are the ATr doing about it? They are aware of the comorant problems and otters, but nothing. So I'm not surprised the P.A.G has been formed.